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Atc Came Full On Whilst Driving On Motorway-Now Unerved


oldgeezer
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We have a 2014 Bailey Twin axle towed with a 2013 Freelander 2.

 

In 25 + years of towing we have never suffered any incidents UNTIL travelling back from the Ardech on an Auto-route, fortunately up hill and no traffic and no side winds without warning there was a horrendous vibration and the car came to an almost stop in the inside lane of the motorway

 

I managed to get onto the hard shoulder & I had suspected we had suffered a blow out but car and caravan were fine ! ( we had been brought to an extremely rapid stop )

Then I realised that the ATC had fully activated ( I suspect though it completed start up cycle )

The caravan has been fully inspected and brake adjustment checked at the dealer and my Land rover dealer spent several hours checking the 13 pin electrics but couldn't fault the system.

 

How can I be assured it wont happen again ? The van and car were extremely stable and very lightly loaded and perfectly balanced with no movement in the van whatsoever and the road surface had been super smooth.

 

I have serious concerns as to why it triggered and what appears more dangerous is that the brake lights don't come on when the ATC is triggered and had an Artic been behind us the outcome may of been very different !

 

We have one or two suspicions, one is that we had travelled approx 470 miles so did the system do a full reset ! is it too long towing ?

 

We had some friends of ours with a similar van and ATC and they experienced a horrendous vibration and rapid stop and found a Renault inside their caravan totalling their van whilst in Europe ! now I'm beginning to think that did the car drive into the rear of their van or was it the ATC triggered that caused the car to go into the rear of their van ( completely inside it ) The driver of the car was very surprised at the time that it had happened and the van was being towed at 60 mph + so Im beginning to think had the ATC triggered on that occasion as well !

The interesting part is that they had also driven an extreme distance that day !

 

I wish I knew the answer but should the ATC have a way of triggering brake lights ??

I'm now in Limbo as Landrover says there's no problem with the vehicle electrics & the dealer says the van is fine ! but if it does it again I might not be so lucky if the Auto-route is busy !

 

Anyone else experienced this without realising that it could be the ATC triggering with full avengence or resetting

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Have you contacted ALKO with all the above details? They should have some user experience of this.

Graham

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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I've experienced the ATC locking up but at low speed. The fault was the car's original 13 pin wiring, the feed was going through a relay, once fixed it hasn't recurred (yet!). Alko emphasise the importance of a constant power supply for it to work properly.

Nissan X-Trail Tekna + Coachman Festival 450

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OG,

 

I may be wrong, but I think the ATC control unit stores data in it's memory? Al-Ko should be able to download the data and possibly give you an answer?

 

Incidentally, I concur with your suggestion of brake light activation. I had the iDC activate on my previous Elddis on the M25 in road works zone. We were going at 50mph and ended up at 40mph in an instant, the HGV behind gave me full blast of his horns.

 

David

мы приходим невидимый - HM Submarines Conqueror, Churchill, Renown, Onslaught, Ocelot, Porpoise

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It strikes me that the ATC must have been maladjusted. Even if it depoys it should never apply the brakes fully to the extent that they lock up. About 20 to 30% of full braking performance is perfectly adequate to straighten a swaying outfit. .

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This is extraordinary, and incredibly dangerous. Whatever the reason for this arising, under no circumstances should any abrupt deceleration outside the control of the driver take place without warning (ie brake) lights being displayed.

Enjoy every minute of every day. It doesn't last nearly as long as you'd like, and there's no guarantee of coming this way again.

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It strikes me that the ATC must have been maladjusted. Even if it depoys it should never apply the brakes fully to the extent that they lock up. About 20 to 30% of full braking performance is perfectly adequate to straighten a swaying outfit. .

I fully agree, the ATC system is only capable of applying 30% brake force if properly adjusted. I suspect the system either activated or reset due to dodgy electrical connection! Either way I suspect it is not correctly adjusted as it should not have been able to apply the brakes with such force anyway.

 

As others have stated already. Contact ALKO.

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

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If the ATC loses electrical power, when the power comes back on it will go through its check procedure applying the brakes. This only last a second or two and it should not stay on permanently.

Brian

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In response to several suggestions I did contact Alko whilst I was still in France and yes I did get a quick response but basically it was contact your dealer !

Well we have done that and they didn't find a reason and could only suggest that it was the car !

Well we contacted our landrover dealer and they also didn't find a reason and suggested it was a fault with the van !!!

 

Were in the middle with a van that could suddenly stop without explanation and no brake light warning ! The brakes didn't lock on but the ATC was obviously fully on as the vibration like fully activated ABS was massive and the stop was abrupt considering the fact that the van brought the car to such a rapid stop.

 

I,m interested if anyone else has suffered a similar experience ??

Thank you David, having a similar experience you appreciate my concern.

In response to those who thought the brakes had locked up, no they didn't.

Both the van and the car spend time in their respective dealerships being inspected !

The Landrover has the genuine Landrover electrics fitted but Landrover won't release the schematics of how the earths and supply feeds are configured in the towing module !!

Edited by oldgeezer
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Its one of those cases were the dealers will blame the car and the car dealers will blame the caravan. But it does sound like they were adjusted wrong which would be down to the dealer

The more I learn the more I know,the more I know the more I forget,the more I forget the less I know :blink:

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The brakes should never lock even in an emergency situation, with or without ATC, and a properly adjusted ATC should not apply the brakes anywhere nearly as vigorously as that.

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But it appeared to happen, none the less.

It is a worry for all of us with ATC unless the cause is found.

Graham

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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In response to several suggestions I did contact Alko whilst I was still in France and yes I did get a quick response but basically it was contact your dealer !

Well we have done that and they didn't find a reason and could only suggest that it was the car !

Well we contacted our landrover dealer and they also didn't find a reason and suggested it was a fault with the van !!!

 

Were in the middle with a van that could suddenly stop without explanation and no brake light warning ! The brakes didn't lock on but the ATC was obviously fully on as the vibration like fully activated ABS was massive and the stop was abrupt considering the fact that the van brought the car to such a rapid stop.

 

I,m interested if anyone else has suffered a similar experience ??

Thank you David, having a similar experience you appreciate my concern.

In response to those who thought the brakes had locked up, no they didn't.

Both the van and the car spend time in their respective dealerships being inspected !

The Landrover has the genuine Landrover electrics fitted but Landrover won't release the schematics of how the earths and supply feeds are configured in the towing module !!

What you have posted suggests a possible problem with your car brakes applying?

ATC activating shouldn't feel like ABS working?

 

Perhaps buying the remote ATC monitor would give you more confidence, I understand one led shows ATC activating.

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So at the time of checking the 'van & ATC wiring was correct

At the time of checking the tug wiring was correct.

 

But in use on 9ne occasion with the OP's combination the ATC appears to have operated. Now according to other posters this could occur if the power supply between the tug, the van and the ATC is interrupted

 

This all sounds, to me, that a transient fault occurred . which because of it's nature cannot be found or replicated but I think has occurred before and was found to be in the 13 pin plug/socket area. This is not uncommon with some electrical systems.

So the decision for the OP is whether to trust the system after a solitary fault or continue to use it and possibly suffer the same fault again.

 

As regards the brake lights not operating this has been mentioned on here before and to me seems a major safety fail on the part of ALKO. To make them work would only need a simple modification to the system and the addition of a couple of relays or diodes

My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely

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Just to confirm it was the brakes on the van that were applied and not the car ! The Landrover sunk down at the rear and decelerated rapidly and the car couldn't over power the braking force !

The lack of brake light is a major concern to me also on a motorway.

 

I can assure everyone the brakes when they applied whilst they didn't lock up had a very rapid effect of stopping the outfit and the tug.

There is no indication within the 13 pin electrics of any signs of poor connection or overheating and the van was about 6 weeks old and the car was about 9 months old and the car has been 100% trouble free and unusually my Dealer has been extremely helpful and attentive and fully understood the seriousness of the issue,

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Just to confirm it was the brakes on the van that were applied and not the car ! The Landrover sunk down at the rear and decelerated rapidly and the car couldn't over power the braking force !

The lack of brake light is a major concern to me also on a motorway.

 

I can assure everyone the brakes when they applied whilst they didn't lock up had a very rapid effect of stopping the outfit and the tug.

There is no indication within the 13 pin electrics of any signs of poor connection or overheating and the van was about 6 weeks old and the car was about 9 months old and the car has been 100% trouble free and unusually my Dealer has been extremely helpful and attentive and fully understood the seriousness of the issue,

Has the braking adjustment of the ATC system been checked and tested?

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

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Has the braking adjustment of the ATC system been checked and tested?

I dont believe adjustment of the ATC side of the brakes is possible. The force exerted by the ATC is down to how much force the electric solenoid applies when activated. The size and force the solenoid exerts is presumably chosen by Al-Ko to give the required braking force. As far as I can see this is not adjustable. It is either on or off.

Brian

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The caravan braking system was stripped and investigated and adjustment double checked by my supplying dealer of whom I have a very good relationship with and they have supplied my last 7 vans so they do look after me very well and they had the van a week and roadtest.

 

We all suspect the system went through a system check/ reset for whatever reason ( could it of been due to towing nearly 500 miles non stop ) but all the same if the autoroute had been busy the consequences could of been horrendous.

I was on the autoroute almost too myself and wasn't even being overtaken at the time so there were not any circumstances for the ATC to trigger

 

I would feel more confident if there was a back up system for the brake lights to be triggered or pulsed when the system was activated. It wouldnt take much and a diode to block the signal returning to the tow car and causing havoc with the engine manegment

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Similar happened to my mates caravan when we were away. He was towing at lower speed and the ATC kept cutting in. It turned out the caravan was losing the electrical connection from the car intermittently, so the ATC kept going through its test cycle. Turned out the caravan 13 pin plug was shot. Replaced when he got home and been fine since.

 

Check for lose wiring in the plug and socket

Edited by Scaramanga
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As others have mentioned the system should be linked to brake lights to inform those following of braking you are doing (wether initiated by you or the system).

 

It could be a valid defense if a driver ran into the back of you if it were proved your vehicle was breaking without brake lights working.

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As others have mentioned the system should be linked to brake lights to inform those following of braking you are doing (wether initiated by you or the system).

 

It could be a valid defense if a driver ran into the back of you if it were proved your vehicle was breaking without brake lights working.

But the hand-brake doesn't put on the brake lights and there is nothing stopping people using that! - If people are too close it's their problem under UK law. ...

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

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I dont believe adjustment of the ATC side of the brakes is possible. The force exerted by the ATC is down to how much force the electric solenoid applies when activated. The size and force the solenoid exerts is presumably chosen by Al-Ko to give the required braking force. As far as I can see this is not adjustable. It is either on or off.

Brian

 

Yes, the solenoid is capable of applying a given force which may be too high, causing the brakes to lock, but all one has to do to prevent that from happening is to readjust the amount of travel of the solenoid so that it effectively hits its own end stop before pulling the brake rod too much, i. e. reduce the amount of pull on the rod, or cable.

 

However, the judder that the OP has described does suggest that it was a failure of the car's own ABS as, unlike ABS, ATC doesn't come on and off so quickly as to be able to cause judder.

Edited by Lutz
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Has the ATC been connected to an alko diagnostic system? This will give a report of what has been happening. Not every alko service centre has them though.

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What you have posted suggests a possible problem with your car brakes applying?

ATC activating shouldn't feel like ABS working?

 

Perhaps buying the remote ATC monitor would give you more confidence, I understand one led shows ATC activating.

Not wanting to high jack this thread. but can you tell us a little more about the remote ATC monitor

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Strongly suggest you lean on the dealer more to get them to contact ALKO and for ALKO to do an inspection as this is making the car and caravan as a unit un-roadworthy.

If you are involved in a mishap with a third party, you may have issues with the insurance paying out as you knowingly drove a vehicle towing a caravan where there is a suspected fault. Even if not towing there could be issues as insurance companies will try everything to get out of paying a claim.

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