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Kerb Weights And Towing Limits.


The Dog House
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It's getting tiresome having to sift through all the spec. sheets of various vehicles in order to compare potential tow car weights and limits. Even doing it on line is a slow and turgid process as some manufacturers seem to love making getting this info. really hard.

 

Is there are definitive list anywhere? ISTR the caravan mags used to do one, is this still the case?

 

(Yes I'm too tight to buy a mag. In case it hasn't got one inside :) )

Martin. ..........

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When is a kerb weight, for towing a caravan purposes, a kerb weight?. Is it the kerb weight stated on the car documents? Or is it the weight of the car plus 75kg driver as stated in the whatcar tests?.

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When is a kerb weight, for towing a caravan purposes, a kerb weight?. Is it the kerb weight stated on the car documents? Or is it the weight of the car plus 75kg driver as stated in the whatcar tests?.

Sorry I don't know, that is a separate question I was going to ask later.

 

Just need to know where I can get the info. I need.

 

Cheers if any body knows?

try www. uktow. com

 

phil

Looks good many thanks.

Martin. ..........

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Be careful of what you advise folks, neither of the two sites linked to have my next possible car shown so may not list the latest new models

My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely

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There's no simple answer - model specifications vary from country to country and it's affected by trim, engine and transmission options.

 

You need the full sales specifications from the manufacture and read the small print about how they define weights, as manufacturers do vary.

 

It's tiresome, but the only way - unless you approximate.

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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What we have noticed in our 6 months of caravanning is not that many seem too bothered by the 85% towing advice.

But as I understand it the advice is the same now as it was when we used to caravan 10 years ago.

 

85% is a god starting point, particularly if you are a beginner to towing,

 

100% possible if experienced at towing.

 

Over 100 % never.

 

Has something changed?

Martin. ..........

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There are 41,000 on this forum, the bulk of whom are not regulars.

There are 660,000 caravans in the UK.

 

Driving along I often wonder how many know the speed limits, the 85% advice etc.

 

That's why this forum is so important. Look at the newbies coming on here asking the same questions but still getting polite and knowledgable advice from CT members. For them, they learn very quickly the basics of vanning. There are 1,000's that don't come on here.

 

So we are contributing to public safety.

Graham

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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There are 41,000 on this forum, the bulk of whom are not regulars.

There are 660,000 caravans in the UK.

Driving along I often wonder how many know the speed limits, the 85% advice etc.

That's why this forum is so important. Look at the newbies coming on here asking the same questions but still getting polite and knowledgable advice from CT members. For them, they learn very quickly the basics of vanning. There are 1,000's that don't come on here.

So we are contributing to public safety.

Your post follows on from mine so I am assuming it is in response to me.

 

None of that is in doubt I am sure. Patterns of forum participation like that are pretty much the norm. (I moderate on fiatforum. com and it's the same there, as it is on other forums I'm a member of)

 

But the 85% guidelines have always been just that have they not? That is all I was asking really. Ok,to exceed but best to stick to if you are an inexperienced at towing a caravan/trailer.

Edited by The Dog House

Martin. ..........

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Your post follows on from mine so I am assuming it is in response to me.

Not at all as I think we were typing at the same time!

 

My point is that people learn from this forum but many never get to learn from a forum and some may have unsuitable combinations so at least our discussions may be important to those who may be reading.

Graham

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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But the 85% guidelines have always been just that have they not?

 

Absolutely, especially given that 24 years ago they related to power to weight ration and not towing safety as they are said to do now

My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely

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Absolutely, especially given that 24 years ago they related to power to weight ration and not towing safety as they are said to do now

Power-to-weight recommendation was, still is probably, a minimum of 40bhp per ton/tonne of outfit weight - the 85% towing ratio recommendation was always about stability and safety.

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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Power-to-weight recommendation was, still is probably, a minimum of 40bhp per ton/tonne of outfit weight - the 85% towing ratio recommendation was always about stability and safety.

 

 

Really?

 

On the third of this month I posted the following in this thread: -

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/98222-85-towing-advice/pag

 

 

Which was immediately following a post by yourself. (#68)

 

This may be a contentious issue, but Where did the magic 85% weight advice originate from?

I dug around for an answer a while back.

From what I could find it originated before car makers had to provide plated GVWs and max towing limits.

It was advice based on trying to give a safe towing limit at that time.

How relevant it is now, if at all, I do not know

 

From the original handbook of our 1991 Bailey which pre-dated the vehicle weight plate

 

Quote

 

POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO

 

No hard and fast rules can be stated but here is a general guide

 

(a) Conventional petrol engines with a capacity of approximately 1500cc should be adequate for towing a caravan weighing around 85% of the kerb weight of the towing vehicle

 

(b ) Above 1500cc such engines should manage a caravan weighing up to 100% of the kerb weight of the towing vehicle and still give adequate performance.

 

NOTE: The towing vehicle manufacturer's limit is, in some cases, less than the kerb weight

 

 

This seems to be the oldest mention of the limit I have seen and is far, far from modern usage of it.

 

Perhaps it is time to do away with this outdated bit of advice in view of more modern practice and engine capabilities?

 

 

 

 

 

 

At that time no one questioned it or provided any evidence to show otherwise.

 

So I'll ask again, when did the advice change to refer to safety & stability? Also where is the 40 bhp/tonne stated in a similar way

Edited by Ich

My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely

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Why do we get so hung up on kerb weights?

 

The only thing they are needed for is for calculating the 'hyperthetical' weight ratio between car and caravan.

 

I say hyperthetical since manufacturers and other bodies seem to produce different figures at different times. The ratio is then only used for a comparason and to try to acheive a nominal 85% which again has no basis in law.

 

We beat ourselves up just to try to acheive utopia!

 

 

Sitting back to watch the fireworks!!

:ph34r:

Trevor.

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Really?

 

On the third of this month I posted the following in this thread: -

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/98222-85-towing-advice/pag

 

 

Which was immediately following a post by yourself. (#68)

 

 

 

 

 

 

At that time no one questioned it or provided any evidence to show otherwise.

 

So I'll ask again, when did the advice change to refer to safety & stability? Also where is the 40 bhp/tonne stated in a similar way

Caravan Club Technical Information sheets.

 

AFAIK the recommended minimum power-to-weight ratio has been 40 bhp/ton for decades, as has the 85% towing ratio recommendation for beginners.

 

Both are recommendations, not rules.

Edited by Black Grouse

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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Both are recommendations, not rules.

 

The quote I gave is a direct copy of what is in my caravan handbook. It only refers to Power to Weight ration. No more, no less.

So again where does the present usage come from?

The present usage is not mentioned in any way, if you are correct where can written evidence be found going back as I have by 24 years?

 

(p. s. I asked the NCC at the beginning of the month, they didn't even reply)

My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely

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To repeat myself - Caravan Club Technical Information sheets.

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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The 85% rule is a GUIDELINE for inexperienced towers, it is however a very good starting point. The maximum you can tow with your car is shown on the V5 (logbook) for your car. It may even be a lot higher than the kerbweight of the car, mine is kerbweight 2000kg, Max towing weight 2700kg.

I would be prepared to tow at 100%, but I am a professionally trained trailer tower.

The LEGAL maximum that you can tow is the figure shown on your V5. That's what the police would use.

 

Mike.

2014 SsangYong Rexton W towing a 2017 Sprite Major 4EB. (After June 9th).

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Edited by Black Grouse

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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To repeat myself - Caravan Club Technical Information sheets.

 

So these sheets have not changed in any way in the last 24 years and can be shown not to have changed. or is their access to the sheets available 24 years ago?

 

P. S. having read one of these sheets dated 2008! There is a bit of a white lie there to begin with, the advice was mainly a combination of the NCC, the CC & the C&CC (with others at one time). Not as implied by the CC just itself!

Edited by Ich

My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely

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Be careful of what you advise folks, neither of the two sites linked to have my next possible car shown so may not list the latest new models

The first site given does not list my Sorento and it's been in production for over 4 years.

2015 SorentoKX2 pulling a 2011 Sterling Eccles Moonstone

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