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Twin axle Nose Weight Question


therealboss
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How can you accurately check the nose weight of a twin axle caravan?

 

I have a Bailey twin axle caravan that a pull with my Discovery 3, when i load it I keep all the weight over the axels but don't know how to check the nose weight, it was easy with the single axle. I have 2 types of nose weight gauge and on the single axle it was easy but on the twin I can't work out how to check the nose weight.

 

How do you all do it?

------------------------------------------
Land Rover Discovery, Bailey Senator Carolina S5 2007.

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The weight will vary with the height of the hitch . .

 

Your Disco will have self leveling suspension I assume . .

 

 

Set the van on level ground, adjust the height of the hitch to its height when on the tug, and check the weight then . .

Edited by Disco Kid

Roughing it . . but in comfort . .

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How can you accurately check the nose weight of a twin axle caravan?

 

How do you all do it?

Exactly the same as for a single axle.

Set the caravan level, or just slightly nose down if that is the normal ride height when towing, and measure the static noseweight either with a bespoke noseweight gauge, or the bathrooom scales. See here.

Gordon.

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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As disco kid said it can only be measured accurately at the same hitch height as when connected to your vehicle, if you lift the hitch higher the weight will increase dramatically, if you check it when lower the weight will decrease dramatically. It's very different to single axle. Bathroom scales and a lump of wood adjusted to the right length will do the trick, I couldn't find any commercially available gauges that would work on my Senator

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if you lift the hitch higher the weight will increase dramatically, if you check it when lower the weight will decrease dramatically.

I think you'll find the reverse is actually true:-

Raising the hitch will decrease the noseweight, while lowering it will increase it.

 

how-to-noseweight2.gif

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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I think you'll find the reverse is actually true:-

Raising the hitch will decrease the noseweight, while lowering it will increase it.

 

how-to-noseweight2.gif

I think you'll find that doesn't apply to twin axles.

 

Tony

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I think you'll find the reverse is actually true:-

Raising the hitch will decrease the noseweight, while lowering it will increase it.

 

how-to-noseweight2.gif

The op is talking about twin axles, I was replying re twin axles. You're right on a single axle.

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Im just gonna stick my milenco gauge under the hitch, lower it down and when it reads XXkg its either that'll do or tweek the loading. Simples

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Im just gonna stick my milenco gauge under the hitch, lower it down and when it reads XXkg its either that'll do or tweek the loading. Simples

That's exactly what I did.

 

As it happens, compressed to anywhere over about 70kg my Milenco gauge is just about the same height as my towball.

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That's exactly what I did.

 

As it happens, compressed to anywhere over about 70kg my Milenco gauge is just about the same height as my towball.

Its the height of the guage thats critical, it MUST be the same height as the vans when the van is hitched to the tug, any variation from that will mean wildly inaccurate readings.

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Its the height of the guage thats critical, it MUST be the same height as the vans when the van is hitched to the tug, any variation from that will mean wildly inaccurate readings.

Yeah I know. But it tows okay and doesn't sit hitch low or high. 30 years ago we didn't get all hung up about nose weights and I'm not about to start now. It's about right and that's fine by me.

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I use the Milenco, obviously designed that between the normal nose weights required by most i. e. 75-100kg it sits at the same height as the towball, if indeed that is fitted at the correct height, single or twin axle (me) if it reads 80kg, it's 80kg.

Land Rover Discovery and Conquerer 630

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I use the Milenco, obviously designed that between the normal nose weights required by most i. e. 75-100kg it sits at the same height as the towball, if indeed that is fitted at the correct height, single or twin axle (me) if it reads 80kg, it's 80kg.

Absolutely my train of thought too :)

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I use the Milenco however I have found that at 110kg which is 10kg over the 100kg limit, the outfit is perfectly balances and it tows like a dream behind the Jeep GC. At 100kg the ride seems to be quite bouncy as virtually nothing in the front except 6 and 10kg gas bottles, 110amp battery, Smoky Joe Weber and a few odds and ends weighing probably less than 2kg. Solar panel is over the wheels.

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The op is talking about twin axles, I was replying re twin axles. You're right on a single axle.

On our twin axle caravans, the front axle was set at approximately the mid point along the body, thus with a low hitch height was effectively the fulcrum, allowing more caravan body weight to be forward of this axle, and increase the noeweight.

This design also explains why the rear tyres used to wear much more quickly than those on the front axle, as while the front tyres would pivot when cornering, those at the rear would scrub sideways, requiring early replacement owing to tyre wear, and not just age.

I note however that when raising the hitch height, the fulcrum moves progressively towards the rear axle line, thus compensating the effect of raising the hitch height. Having measured the noseweight at various hitch heights on our first twin; raising or loweing the hitch several inches resulted in only a negligable change in the static noseweight. In practice the variation in active nosewight, owing to the fore and aft rocking of the caravan when being towed, would far oughtweigh the minimal static variatiion caused by hitch height.

Gordon.

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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On our twin axle caravans, the front axle was set at approximately the mid point along the body, thus with a low hitch height was effectively the fulcrum, allowing more caravan body weight to be forward of this axle, and increase the noeweight.

This design also explains why the rear tyres used to wear much more quickly than those on the front axle, as while the front tyres would pivot when cornering, those at the rear would scrub sideways, requiring early replacement owing to tyre wear, and not just age.

I note however that when raising the hitch height, the fulcrum moves progressively towards the rear axle line, thus compensating the effect of raising the hitch height. Having measured the noseweight at various hitch heights on our first twin; raising or loweing the hitch several inches resulted in only a negligable change in the static noseweight. In practice the variation in active nosewight, owing to the fore and aft rocking of the caravan when being towed, would far oughtweigh the minimal static variatiion caused by hitch height.

Gordon.

:goodpost: Edited by Scaramanga
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On our twin axle caravans, the front axle was set at approximately the mid point along the body, thus with a low hitch height was effectively the fulcrum, allowing more caravan body weight to be forward of this axle, and increase the noeweight.

 

How interesting, I've just had a look at photographs of several Twin axles and every one has the centre of the 2 axles just aft of the midway point. That said from an engineering point of view it's the balance point from a weight perspective that's relevant in the design stage. All of the heavy stuff in mine is either over the axles or forward of it eg gas bottles, battery, etc etc

 

I note however that when raising the hitch height, the fulcrum moves progressively towards the rear axle line, thus compensating the effect of raising the hitch height. Having measured the noseweight at various hitch heights on our first twin; raising or loweing the hitch several inches resulted in only a negligable change in the static noseweight. In practice the variation in active nosewight, owing to the fore and aft rocking of the caravan when being towed, would far oughtweigh the minimal static variatiion caused by hitch height.

Gordon.

I can agree with you there, with my Allroad I can vary the nose weight by raising or lowering the suspension from the dash. Doesn't seem to affect stability at all.
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  • 4 weeks later...

I have just checked the noseweight variation and dimensions on my Coachman Laser 590 using the bathroom scales under the jockey (with the jockey swung forward).

 

The van is more or less loaded for a weekend, just wants clothes in the wardrobes and food.

 

From the mid point between the wheels to the hitch 4. 1 metres

 

From the mid point between the wheels to the jockey (point of contact on ground) 3. 7 metres

 

Weights taken at 40, 43, 46, & 49cm (around 16, 17, 18, & 19 ")

 

40 . . 100kg

43 . . 107kg

46 . . 118kg

49 . . 130kg

 

the weights on the hitch will be slightly less than this (37/41* weight on my van)

 

So, the hitch height does make a measurable difference to the nose weight an a TA van

Roughing it . . but in comfort . .

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I have just checked the noseweight variation and dimensions on my Coachman Laser 590 using the bathroom scales under the jockey (with the jockey swung forward).

 

The van is more or less loaded for a weekend, just wants clothes in the wardrobes and food.

 

From the mid point between the wheels to the hitch 4. 1 metres

 

From the mid point between the wheels to the jockey (point of contact on ground) 3. 7 metres

 

Weights taken at 40, 43, 46, & 49cm (around 16, 17, 18, & 19 ")

 

40 . . 100kg

43 . . 107kg

46 . . 118kg

49 . . 130kg

 

the weights on the hitch will be slightly less than this (37/41* weight on my van)

 

So, the hitch height does make a measurable difference to the nose weight an a TA van

Thanks for that, brilliant job and confirms what to me was obvious as per post no. 10

 

Well done, excellent research.

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When we bought our twin axle and went to collect it I went to the car to get the Milenco gauge out to check the nose weight and the dealer started laughing. He said you wont need that mate, all twin axle sit level on all 4 wheels.

At this point I asked my 82 year old mum to get in the van and sit on the front seats and I measured the nose weight. Then I asked her to go and sit on the rear bed and then I measured the nose weight. When I showed the dealer the difference and explained that even a twin axle van has a nose weight figure he laughed again, said its all rubbish and walked away. Hence to say I made sure the van was level and had a nose weight of 95kg and all was fine.

Mitsubishi Shogun 3. 2 SG3 197 BHP, 2014, Auto in White . Looking for a 7m German caravan.

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. ...... all twin axle sit level on all 4 wheels. ......

 

Oh dear oh dear oh dear . . who was that dealer?

 

If TA sat level, we wouldn't need jockey wheels . . perhaps he was thinking of 4-wheel drawbar trailers

Roughing it . . but in comfort . .

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Oh dear oh dear oh dear . . who was that dealer?

 

If TA sat level, we wouldn't need jockey wheels . . perhaps he was thinking of 4-wheel drawbar trailers

The dealer was located in the north west of England just below the lake district !!!!! cant say anymore I'll get banned again. lol.

Mitsubishi Shogun 3. 2 SG3 197 BHP, 2014, Auto in White . Looking for a 7m German caravan.

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I use a set of bathroom scales and an axle stand placed under the tow hitch with the hitch the same height as when attached to the tow ball/

That's how I would check it and IMHO the ONLY way to get an accurate reading of a TA nose weight.

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That's how I would check it and IMHO the ONLY way to get an accurate reading of a TA nose weight.

Well it is not how the DVSA would do it. ....

Has the revolution finally begun?

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