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Irked By A Dealer


wiganian
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Having just purchased a 2011 caravan from a dealer we(wife and i) were both irked to reciece a letter asking us to sign and return an invoice for less than the purchse price.

As it stood on the forcourt the van had a price tag of £14,495 which we were happy with, catching the eye of a salesman we discussed the sale. We had for part exchange a 2003 swift and salesman went of to check with his boss what he could offer us on it. He returned with an offer of £4250 (he said ours was book price of around £3250 and they go £1000 on top for deals for this value) ok we said deal done.

Off we trot to do the formalities,£14,495 + £399 for the optional Supagaurd,still ok,how do you want to pay,Cash i say's, thats fine he says we will need a deposit usually £500. thats ok and duely hand over debit card.

3 weeks later go to pick up the van and pay the balance of £10,144 no problems(apart from a 1 hour wait as they where running a little late with the previos hand over).

5 days later got a letter from dealer saying that i had signed an invoice and the VAT had been done incorrect and they need to reprocess the VAT invoice. Could I sign this new invoice and return it(prepaid envelope)

new invoice reads.

caravan price £13,245

extras

Supaguard £ 399

Trade in

Swift £ 3. 000


Goods £13,577. 50

VAT £ 66. 50

Total goods £13,644

Trade in £ 3,000


Balance Payable £10,644


Ok so now i phone and ask why to be told that as i had only paid the agreed amount of cash their system would not produce an invoice with a purchase price of £14,495. i bit my tounge as hard as i dared to not call the person a bare faced liar.

so to the point.

By not having an invoice for the correct price £14495 any insurance company could dispute the price i paid and rely on the information from the dealer on their invoice in the event of a total loss claim.

I haven,t signed the new invoice and am unlikey to.

but i was wondering if this could be some kind of VAT fraud or syphoning of cash !!!!
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hi

 

sounds a bit iffy in my opinion, personaly i would not buy off of a dealer, i would always buy private, but that is just my way, you will always pay over the top price from dealers but also take a chance from buying private, i know dealers offer added extras but they some times are never needed so basicly paying for nothing, buying private then take your chance but always do the hpi checks and criss checks, no one can tell you what to do for the best, it is what is ever best for you that counts.

 

phil

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VAT on 13k isn't 66 quid for a start!

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VAT on 13k isn't 66 quid for a start!

vat on £13,000 is £2,600 @20%

 

phil

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I would demand an invoice for the correct amounts you agreed at the time of the deal. If you sign the 1 they sent you are condoning what is in effect a vat fraud as they are trying to pay less vat by giving lower figures for the deal. This would also affect any payout you may get if there is a problem with the purchase and you have to claim from the credit card company you paid the deposit with. IMHO

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I have bought second hand cars and caravans in the past and they change figures on the invoice so yes they do something to their advantage.

Regards, David
Peugeot 308 GT Premium, 1.5 diesel 2021

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Perhaps is has something to do with recouping some of that £1000 discount they give you. As for your old van they won't lose any money on that ether despite they told you the book price was a £1000 less than they gave you for it.

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vat on £13,000 is £2,600 @20%

 

phil

No vat on the van, the vat is for the protection. How can it be a vat fiddle when there is no vat on the van. Edited by Marks

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Even then the VAT on Superguard is £79. 80, not £66. :unsure:

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There is VAT on any dealer purchased van, but it's only on the difference between the buying in cost and the selling price.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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No vat on the van, the vat is for the protection. How can it be a vat fiddle when there is no vat on the van.

i dont think i said it was a vat fiddle, if you run a company vat has to be added if you earn over £81'000 as you need to be vat registered and i am sure most caravan dealers earn more than that every year, if your dealer is altering the prices about then there is something not quite right

 

phil

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The VAT figure for the Supagard treatment is way out so not sure why they want you to agree to the new VAT price. What does it actually say on the invoice you currently hold?

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Just ignore it and stick with th invoice you have from the day of collection.

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There is VAT on any dealer purchased van, but it's only on the difference between the buying in cost and the selling price.

That could explain my statement on the prices being altered to get a different VAT amount.

Regards, David
Peugeot 308 GT Premium, 1.5 diesel 2021

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Mm, it's called writing back, as they are trying save VAT on the difference between the price they bought and sold the vans for. It is common in all sectors where the second hand margin scheme is in operation. It is even known to happen in intra EU trade with second hand goods.

 

Very common and as a VAT officer something that is frowned upon as VAT avoidance, even upto the point of being evasion depending upon the circumstances

Edited by Award1

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thanks for all the comments/advice.

update

phoned dealer (slight rant)

new invoice produced now with figures that agree with what i paid

 

 

 

 

Oh yes it is!!

 

20% of 332. 5 = 66. 50

 

332. 50 + 66. 50 = 399

correct but that was not evident on first invoice

 

Just ignore it and stick with th invoice you have from the day of collection.

was told on day that office was closed (i did mention a delay of 1 hour) and that the invoice would be forwarded by post

 

Mm, it's called writing back, as they are trying save VAT on the difference between the price they bought and sold the vans for. It is common in all sectors where the second hand margin scheme is in operation. It is even known to happen in intra EU trade with second hand goods.

 

Very common and as a VAT officer something that is frowned upon as VAT avoidance, even upto the point of being evasion depending upon the circumstances

so probably a VAT rip off, and they can swivel for the signed invoice for a few weeks :D

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Yes it's VAT avoidance and it's also very common in the used car market, even from major franchised dealers.

 

Tony

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before this happened i was toying with the idea of using them to service the caravan and buy the odd things we need (like chems, bulbs,gas etc. but will probably never darken their door again unless it is to paint CROOKS on it

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They pay VAT on the margin, by rewriting the invoice both down £1000 it will save them £200 approx.

 

Phil s VAT is required on turnover of £81,000 not earnings. Big difference.

maybe i worded it wrong, ok if turn over is above £81,000 then vat is sposed to be paid and become vat registered, earnings, turnover what ever!! if £81,000 goes through a business then it should be vat registered, if someone is altering the prices about to avoid paying vat then they are breaking the law ;), simple as that ;), that is 1 of the reasons why this country is in so much of a mess :o, not to mention the amount of imigrants that is here :angry::angry:

 

phil

 

 

Bad language removed by Admin and replaced by, "of a mess".

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There is valid reason the dealer can "roll the figures back" on the invoice.

 

The explanation is quite long but the gist of it is around legitimately managing their VAT liabilities, part of which is showing the PX'd caravan on their books at its true trade value.

 

ALL dealers, car, caravan, motorbike dealers etc undertake this accountancy practice which usually occurs when profit in the caravan you are buying is used to give you an inflated PX allowance ( an amount over and above the true trade value of your caravan), but it should have been explained at point of sale.

 

Your query regarding proving to the insurer what you paid is in fact not really relevant, because you will get "market value" if your caravan is stolen or written off, even with a new for old policy the insurer will determine what the insured value will be, regardless of the invoiced price.

 

So nothing at all to get excited about ;)

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