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New Car V Old Cars Towing Capabilities...


clarkey1984
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Just been looking on the parkers site about facts and figures relating to the car i used to tow with and the car ive just bought, that im yet to tow with (waiting for the towbar to be fitted) and a few points confuse me slightly. ..

 

Old car http://www. parkers. co. uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/peugeot/406/saloon-1996/12040/

 

New car http://www. parkers. co. uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/volvo/v40/estate-1996/11603/

 

My new car is 165kg lighter than my old one was, yet it can tow 200kg MORE, eventhough its lighter, puzzling.

 

It also states that my old car was 110 bhp and my new one is 136 bhp, i know they are 'as new' power stats, and that petrol and diesel engines have a totally different power delivery, but id expect a car thats 165kg lighter, and that has 26 horsepower more, to be a lot more responsive than its predecessor, which doesnt really seem to be the case, if anything, the pug was quicker, although this could be me still being in turbo diesel mode, expecting loads of pull at lower revs, something which i wont get with a normally aspirated petrol engine.

 

So, all of the above considered, should i be expecting this volvo to be a horrible tow car in comparison, as the 406 was really good, maybe a petrol wasnt the way to go, but i needed a car quickly as the 406 died, and this came up, plus an estate car with loads of room is perfect, im just worried about this and my 1990 abbey 516gt being a slow horrible outfit.

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Will depend on much more than that, especially the gearing for instance as well as the spread of power band and the revs the bulk of the torque is delivered

 

Maybe report back once you've tried it?

 

As for towing limits that is simply what a vehicle can physically tow up a certain hill in controlled circumstances and nothing to do what is safe to tow caravan wise

Unless you've tried it, you simply won't understand. .....

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Hi, This is a slight drift to the original post but is to do with towing capabilities, my new car manual informs me that the max braked trailer I can tow is 900Kgs, the DVLA document states 1200 Kgs,

The kerbweight of my car is 1213Kgs and the 85% rule gives me 1031 Kgs.

I purchased the car Renault Capture 1. 5 Diesel before the caravan therefore matched the van to the car, I have a Bailey 405-2 MRO 840Kgs unladen so the match is good and towing has been

excellent.

I have no intention of changing the car or the van I would just like some accurate information on what my towing limits are.

Your advice would be welcome. regards stuart.

Edited by lazydaze
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As said it would be illegal to tow a caravan heavier than your vehicles towing limit. Could also effect your insurance if you had a accident.

 

Figures quoted seen to indicate a 900 kg towing limit.

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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I'd ask Renault what they thought it was, as DVLA must have got the figure from somewhere.

I refer you to the Rt Hon Member for the 19th Century.....................pictured just to the left of your screen..................

 

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it is the MTPLM weight that you need to work with & not the MRO therefor 850 + 200kg = 1250kg you are 300+kg over the Renault recommended braked tow allowance http://carleasingmadesimple. com/business-car-leasing/renault/captur/towing-weight-limit/

When I was at skool, pre metric and modern maths, 850+200=1050. I did the calculation in my head by what was then called Mental Arithmetic. :rolleyes: Hope this helps. :)

Edited by DeeTee
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I'd ask Renault what they thought it was, as DVLA must have got the figure from somewhere.

 

Well you could ask Renault and they may offer advice but as the new car is Volvo, they may give a better answer.

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Petrol or diesel, power or torque. Peak maximum figures tell you only half the story.

 

Torque curve across the rev range and gearing are what matters

 

Lee

Yeti 2.0TDi EU6 150 DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Fabia TSi DSG, Swift Challenger.

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Well you could ask Renault and they may offer advice but as the new car is Volvo, they may give a better answer.

Unless your name is lazydave and woodies advice was aimed at you.

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When I was at skool, pre metric and modern maths, 850+200=1050. I did the calculation in my head by what was then called Mental Arithmetic. :rolleyes: Hope this helps. :)

:blush::blush: can I claim wear &tear :wub:

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it is the MTPLM weight that you need to work with & not the MRO therefor 850 + 200kg = 1250kg you are 300+kg over the Renault recommended braked tow allowance http://carleasingmadesimple. com/business-car-leasing/renault/captur/towing-weight-limit/

Hi TD42, My caravans weight is 840Kgs which I think includes 1 gas bottle,1 sparewheel, this gives me 60Kgs to use bringing it up to Renaults towing limit, 60Kgs of bit and bobs can be achieved if careful, I also take care with the noseweight and load the caravan to suit.

Not sure how Iam 300Kgs over the Renault limit, from the my above figures I meet the safe towing limit, albeit close or on the maximum.

thanks for your reply.

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Hi, This is a slight drift to the original post but is to do with towing capabilities, my new car manual informs me that the max braked trailer I can tow is 900Kgs, the DVLA document states 1200 Kgs,

The kerbweight of my car is 1213Kgs and the 85% rule gives me 1031 Kgs.

I purchased the car Renault Capture 1. 5 Diesel before the caravan therefore matched the van to the car, I have a Bailey 405-2 MRO 840Kgs unladen so the match is good and towing has been

excellent.

I have no intention of changing the car or the van I would just like some accurate information on what my towing limits are.

Your advice would be welcome. regards stuart.

 

Published figures, including those in handbooks can be wrong as can the figures printed on your V5 (I know because I had to get Vauxhall to change an erroneous V5 maximum towing weight).

 

Look at the passenger door plate on your car- it usually quotes four figures which govern everything for your specific vehicle at its time of manufacture:

Maximum (gross) vehicle weight

Maximum (gross) train weight

Maximum load weights allowed on each axle

 

The difference between the GTW and GVW is what you can usually tow at UK altitudes. Depending on the manufacturer you may also be allowed to pull that difference plus the coupling weight (maximum nose weight) of the car since the nose weight which the van presses on the towbar is transferred to the car, making the van lighter by that amount.

 

To be legal you mustn't exceed any of the four weights above, nor should you load your caravan beyond its MPTLM.

 

You can quite easily get from your caravan's MRO to the MPTLM unless you run it as factory empty. The problem is that all your caravan stuff would have to go in your car, still eating in to your GVW. You also need to check what the van manufacturer includes in the MRO for your van.

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As said it would be illegal to tow a caravan heavier than your vehicles towing limit. Could also effect your insurance if you had a accident.

 

Figures quoted seen to indicate a 900 kg towing limit.

 

 

Dave

 

Not exactly true, its not exceeding the vehicles gross train weight that matters and any restrictions on your driving licence,. https://www. gov. uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weight-and-width-limits

 

As for a vehicles max towing weight, this is the figure that the manufacture gives after testing what the vehicle can tolerate ( Engine power, cooling capacity, transmission chassis/ body, etc. , against a braked trailer.

 

 

Well you could ask Renault and they may offer advice but as the new car is Volvo, they may give a better answer.

 

Where did Renault's Capture come into all of this. The OP vehicle links, are for Peugeot and Volvo ?

Edited by Gaz40
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Not exactly true, its not exceeding the vehicles gross train weight that matters and any restrictions on your driving licence,. https://www. gov. uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weight-and-width-limits

 

As for a vehicles max towing weight, this is the figure that the manufacture gives after testing what the vehicle can tolerate ( Engine power, cooling capacity, transmission chassis/ body, etc. , against a braked trailer.

 

 

 

 

Where did Renault's Capture come into all of this. The OP vehicle links, are for Peugeot and Volvo ?

The vehicle is only been tested and type approved to tow 900kg exceed this and it is a C&U offence .

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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The vehicle is only been tested and type approved to tow 900kg exceed this and it is a C&U offence .

Dave

What construction & offence are you referring to (CU50) and what vehicle ?

Edited by Gaz40
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Comes under the same as any other manufaturers declared weight limit now as it is part of the type approval for the vehicle .

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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Comes under the same as any other manufaturers declared weight limit now as it is part of the type approval for the vehicle .

 

 

Dave

If your referring to the Capture (mentioned above in an above post and I don't know why)

 

Tce 90

Kerb . 1089kg

Gross vehicle . 1663kg

Gross train . 2563kg

 

Take away your gross vehicle weight from your gross train weight and it leaves 900kg. But if you don't exceed the gross vehicle weight you could add the saved weight to the tow vehicle. It's the gross train weight that you cannot exceed.

Edited by Gaz40
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If your referring to the Capture (mentioned above in an above post)

 

Tce 90

Kerb . 1089kg

Gross vehicle . 1663kg

Gross train . 2563kg

 

Take away your gross vehicle weight from your gross train weight and it leaves 900kg. But if you don't exceed the gross vehicle weight you could add the saved weight to the tow vehicle. It's the gross train weight that you cannot exceed.

Only when a vehicle had no declared towing limit . Now a manufacturer declares his vehicle can tow xxxx kgs and the vehicle now has been submitted for type approval that it can tow that amount . Exceeding it now is the same as exceeding any declared weight .

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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I know that Peugeot, for some vehicles, allow towing weights in excess of the normal towing weight figure quoted if the car is underloaded. Instructions in manuals outline various exceptions to the usual published towing weight. At higher altitude the weight that the manufacturer advises can be towed is less- all manufacturers put that in. In my Vauxhall manual it states that the coupling weight can be added to the towing weight figure on the V5 document.

 

Below are some previous, rather lively, threads on the subject of manufacturers' towing capacities:

 

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/58231-towing-weights-so-confusing/

 

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/67563-total-weight-question/

 

I'm yet to be convinced that a caravanner has ever been prosecuted for theoretically being able to exceed an advertised (or V5 published) towing weight because of the MPTLM of their trailer.

Edited by Caravanarfa
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Only when a vehicle had no declared towing limit . Now a manufacturer declares his vehicle can tow xxxx kgs and the vehicle now has been submitted for type approval that it can tow that amount . Exceeding it now is the same as exceeding any declared weight .

 

Dave

It's not illegal to exceed the vehicles towing limit. It's a factory recommendation against the vehicles max weight. Legally you cannot exceed the manufactures vehicles gross train weight on a public highway.

 

Obviously its good practice to keep to the towing limits and recommended caravan to car weight ratio's for safety but its not always illegal if you don't.

Edited by Gaz40
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If your referring to the Capture (mentioned above in an above post and I don't know why)

 

Tce 90

Kerb . 1089kg

Gross vehicle . 1663kg

Gross train . 2563kg

 

Take away your gross vehicle weight from your gross train weight and it leaves 900kg. But if you don't exceed the gross vehicle weight you could add the saved weight to the tow vehicle. It's the gross train weight that you cannot exceed.

Just an update on Renault Captur range, although strange any Renault in this range has a towing capability of 900KGs this ingnores differing kerb weights petrol/diesel torque etc, my diesel is 1213Kgs kerb weight heaviest in the range but can only tow the same as the lighter models. it would appear that kerb weight has no bearing. all models gross train weight minus gross vehicle weight equals 900kg.

Dci 90 Diesel

Kerb 1213kg

Gross Vehicle 1763kg

Gross train weight 2663kg. ...minus GVW = 900kgs Towing

Just to add the Renault Diesel 90Dci has ben voted best tow car in its range.

Thanks for all the replies from my original post . Regards Stuart.

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Just an update on Renault Captur range, although strange any Renault in this range has a towing capability of 900KGs this ingnores differing kerb weights petrol/diesel torque etc, my diesel is 1213Kgs kerb weight heaviest in the range but can only tow the same as the lighter models. it would appear that kerb weight has no bearing. all models gross train weight minus gross vehicle weight equals 900kg.

Dci 90 Diesel

Kerb 1213kg

Gross Vehicle 1763kg

Gross train weight 2663kg. ...minus GVW = 900kgs Towing

Just to add the Renault Diesel 90Dci has ben voted best tow car in its range.

Thanks for all the replies from my original post . Regards Stuart.

 

 

The manufactures max tow weight is whats calculated against the vehicles capability. as mentioned in above posts, it considers power, braking, transmission, engine cooling and weights etc, carried out on a test track with varying conditions.

 

Your vehicle drops back to 900kg because as well as your kerb weight increasing, your gross vehicle weight as increased along with the gross train weight.

 

 

Against your stated kerb weight and using the 85% rule you can tow safely 1031kg on the highways.

 

BUT . ..... You would have to loose 131kg from the gross vehicle weight to a new weight of 1632kg and below to be legal on the road towing 1031kg as to keep within the vehicles max gross train weight,

 

BUT . ..... You are now going against the manufactures max towing weights to keep the vehicle performing safely whist towing and wearing out the vehicle prematurely.

 

Rule of thumb, . ... Always stick to the manufactures max towing weights for your vehicle, but don't presume if you don't, you will automatically get nicked.

 

ps . .. Excellent engines Dci 90, with excellent performance and economy (solo)

 

ps. ...ps I wonder how many folks tow illegally, when they ram their tow cars with all the family and everything but the kitchen sink and load their caravans to the max. It would be interesting to see what their actual gross train weight was against the manufactures stated weight. (Food for thought)

Edited by Gaz40
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Just an update on Renault Captur range, although strange any Renault in this range has a towing capability of 900KGs this ingnores differing kerb weights petrol/diesel torque etc, my diesel is 1213Kgs kerb weight heaviest in the range but can only tow the same as the lighter models. it would appear that kerb weight has no bearing. all models gross train weight minus gross vehicle weight equals 900kg.

Dci 90 Diesel

Kerb 1213kg

Gross Vehicle 1763kg

Gross train weight 2663kg. ...minus GVW = 900kgs Towing

Just to add the Renault Diesel 90Dci has ben voted best tow car in its range.

Thanks for all the replies from my original post . Regards Stuart.

 

Peugeot and Citroen have always been a nightmare when it comes to towing limits some years back some models had a tow limit quoted with "Driver Only". I had a new shape C5 2. 0TDi Auto, it had the same engine and gearbox as the Mondeo. The C5 had a 1400kg tow limit and the Mondeo 2000kg limit ? Maybe that says something about PSA's cooling capacity?

I only had the C5 for 5 weeks, a bit of a tale and a couple of thousand loss. Only other french car I had was in the early 90's a 405 and that was a nightmare too. That's me done with French cars.

But I hope yours is reliable and you have a better ownership experience.

 

Lee

Edited by logiclee

Yeti 2.0TDi EU6 150 DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Fabia TSi DSG, Swift Challenger.

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