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Kerbweight....mass In Service...weighbridge


ericfield
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I know there are differing views as to whats included in kerbweight and mass in service figures. ...so it wasn't my intention of yet again reopen that can of worms.

 

I today used the local weighbridge for my car with a 90% full tank and a 75kg body in the car!

 

My question. ...out of pure curiosity. .. is addressed to those who havdoggone to similar lengths to get an actual figure.

 

Do you then adopt THAT actual weight for use in the calculation of the tug to caravan %?

Or do you deduct estimated fuel and driver weight before doing the calculation, to get the worst case scenario?

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The figures on ratios are only recommendations and the true figures and ratio is totally different when a car is fully load with the items you take away and a caravan is usually never loaded to the MTPLM completely .

 

 

IMO the 85 percent recommendation is a waste of time and just creates confusion and it should be based on a true figure based on a loaded ready to go away vehicle.

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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I know there are differing views as to whats included in kerbweight and mass in service figures. ...so it wasn't my intention of yet again reopen that can of worms.

 

I today used the local weighbridge for my car with a 90% full tank and a 75kg body in the car!

 

My question. ...out of pure curiosity. .. is addressed to those who havdoggone to similar lengths to get an actual figure.

 

Do you then adopt THAT actual weight for use in the calculation of the tug to caravan %?

Or do you deduct estimated fuel and driver weight before doing the calculation, to get the worst case scenario?

 

Do the 75kg really make such a difference to the weight ratio that you would be able to detect it in the way the outfit handles? I very much doubt it. A variance of up to about 3% should be close enough.

 

The only situation where accuracy could conceivably be an issue is if you were to tow in Germany where there is a legal 100% weight ratio limit if you wish to tow at 100km/h. But in that case, the powers-that-be would go by whatever the V5c states as mass in service, regardless of what the actual weight is.

Edited by Lutz
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Anyone with a Mazda CX-5 best avoid Germany if that's the case.

 

For my model the mass in service is 1490kg. I tow a 1565kg Valencia, so illegal.

 

 

On a weigh bridge a member with the same car weighed around 1720kg.

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Anyone with a Mazda CX-5 best avoid Germany if that's the case.

 

For my model the mass in service is 1490kg. I tow a 1565kg Valencia, so illegal.

 

 

On a weigh bridge a member with the same car weighed around 1720kg.

 

So long as the noseweight is at least 75kg, 1565kg MTPLM would still be legal, even if mass in service is stated as being only 1490kg.

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Xtrail, that`s very interesting. Is 1490 kgs the figure on your V5 ?

 

I have the same car as you except it is auto and don`t yet have the V5 (long story) but have been advised that the 1490 kgs figure is for the 2011 model . 2012 model year onwards the kerb weight is 1678 kgs. I have also read on a website that this is the "ballasted weight", which seems very, very strange.

 

Bob

Mercedes Benz E220 AMG Line Auto Estate and Bailey S4 Unicorn Cadiz

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I have also read on a website that this is the "ballasted weight", which seems very, very strange.

 

Bob

 

 

i suspect by 'ballasted' they mean the driver and fuel element that sometimes gets built into some of these weights. Anything else would just add to confusion. :)

 

According to Honest John the 2 litre CX5s have a kerbweight in the 1425kg area and a Tow Limit of 1800kg. The 2. 2 litre SE KW is 1525kg, the Sport Manual is 1605kg and the Sport Auto is 1620kg, all with a 2000kg Tow Limit.

 

According to HJ there never was a 2011 model as it was announced in April 2011, launched in September '11 and first supplies arrived in mid-May 2012.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Lutz, you appear to be contradicting yourself. You said that there is a 100% legal weight ratio in Germany yet say that towing a van of 1565kg mtplm with a car of 1490kg mass in service would be legal if noseweight is 75kg. What does noseweight have to do with it ? If you weigh a caravan on a weighbridge you do so unattached from the car so surely that would give the correct weight ?

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Lutz, you appear to be contradicting yourself. You said that there is a 100% legal weight ratio in Germany yet say that towing a van of 1565kg mtplm with a car of 1490kg mass in service would be legal if noseweight is 75kg. What does noseweight have to do with it ? If you weigh a caravan on a weighbridge you do so unattached from the car so surely that would give the correct weight ?

It is only if you want to tow at 100kph, i believe i have read on other posts.

Edited by clairendave

A seemingly problem free 2010 model Adria Altea 542dk that has more than its fair share of use.

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Anyone with a Mazda CX-5 best avoid Germany if that's the case. For my model the mass in service is 1490kg. I tow a 1565kg Valencia, so illegal. On a weigh bridge a member with the same car weighed around 1720kg.

It would be illegal for you to travel at 100mph in Germany but perfectly legal for you to travel at 80mph.

Bill

 

Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.

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Lutz, you appear to be contradicting yourself. You said that there is a 100% legal weight ratio in Germany yet say that towing a van of 1565kg mtplm with a car of 1490kg mass in service would be legal if noseweight is 75kg. What does noseweight have to do with it ? If you weigh a caravan on a weighbridge you do so unattached from the car so surely that would give the correct weight ?

 

If you weigh the caravan on its own unattached to the car you wouldn't be measuring the towload, but its overall weight. The towload is the load that the car is pulling and that doesn't include the vertical load on the towball. The noseweight is being carried not towed, so it must be deducted from the overall weight of the caravan if you want to know the towload.

 

Bill, I would like to see a caravan being towed at 100MPH ! :o

 

The world record for a single axle caravan stands at 144mph. For a twin axle it's 129mph.

Edited by Lutz
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The Caravan Club technical people advise me that the lower figures are for 2011 models. It is all they list under their outfit matching section. They are yet to update for the 2012 model year onwards.

 

Having emailed them they agree that the kerbweight for a 2014 CX5 175 Sat Nav Sport Auto is 1678 kgs.

 

I don`t know where HJ gets his figures from.

 

Bob

Mercedes Benz E220 AMG Line Auto Estate and Bailey S4 Unicorn Cadiz

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Why would you deduct the weight of the driver - not going to get far without one ? :D

Because the 'kerb weight' as defined by many people is the unladen weight of the car without fuel or driver but with everything thats factory fitted. It's the kerb weight that's used in establishing the % relationship with the caravan. Ie it's the absolute minimum that car could weigh.

 

It does seem a bit daft that the mass in service figure (ie with fuel and driver) isn't the one used in this % calculation. But this guideline predates the EU introduction of mass in service.

 

Your point is right at the heart of my own dilemma.

 

As weighed today (with driver and fuel) my car weight of 1819kg means my caravan is 90%.

If I deduct fuel and driver to get the kerbweight. ...the percentage sours to nearer 97%.

 

Having said all that, I am 'happy' to continue towing with this combo (whatever it's percentage) until I need to change the tug or get a lighter caravan.

 

Being a reasonable experienced tower I know to respect the less than ideal weight relationship in less than perfect driving situations.

Edited by ericfield
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Xtrail, that`s very interesting. Is 1490 kgs the figure on your V5 ?

 

I have the same car as you except it is auto and don`t yet have the V5 (long story) but have been advised that the 1490 kgs figure is for the 2011 model . 2012 model year onwards the kerb weight is 1678 kgs. I have also read on a website that this is the "ballasted weight", which seems very, very strange.

 

Bob

I have the manual version delivered in July last year, fitted with revisions that the original cars didn't have, the brochure weight was originally 1605kg for my car, a revised brochure later stated the weight as 1663kg, this has been confirmed by Mazda as my kerb weight.

 

Again the car has received revisions, electric memory seat and now passenger seat, and others, so the weight is again increased, as shown on the Mazda website.

 

Why the V5c MIS is so low I have no idea, but others have the same weight, which is why "desmo" put his car on the weigh bridge.

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Because the 'kerb weight' as defined by many people is the unladen weight of the car without fuel or driver but with everything thats factory fitted. It's the kerb weight that's used in establishing the % relationship with the caravan. Ie it's the absolute minimum that car could weigh.

 

I have never heard of kerbweight being understood to be the same as unladen weight. I've heard of kerbweight being confused with mass in service/mass in running order, but not with unladen weight. Besides, I don't know of any source that actually gives details of unladen weight of vehicles currently in production, even though that is the still term used in older legislation.

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The Caravan Club technical people advise me that the lower figures are for 2011 models. It is all they list under their outfit matching section. They are yet to update for the 2012 model year onwards.

 

Having emailed them they agree that the kerbweight for a 2014 CX5 175 Sat Nav Sport Auto is 1678 kgs.

 

I don`t know where HJ gets his figures from.

 

Bob

HJ is quoting the original kerb weights published by Mazda, and in the original brochure, I have two copies, with two different weights, the latter with revisions.

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For your information, here are the weights of the CX5 shown in Mazda's current German brochure:

 

Mappe1-001_zps64f29482.jpg

 

It is possible that there may be differences between German and UK models due to local market equipment variances, but these shouldn't be very great.

Edited by Lutz
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The V5 kerb weight for my CX5 is 1490 as already started by xtrailman. I also queried this with Mazda, who advised me that the 2013 sport manual 175 was 1638. The kerb weight on the Mazda web site changed at least once during the 6 months that I was researching the car. The car tows my van superbly so I am happy with any weight!

Lunar Clubman SB

Mazda CX5 Sport AWD 175 bhp

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The only situation where accuracy could conceivably be an issue is if you were to tow in Germany where there is a legal 100% weight ratio limit if you wish to tow at 100km/h.

.

 

 

Only applies to caravans. The ratio can be 1:1 or 1:2 for some other trailers

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Bill, I would like to see a caravan being towed at 100MPH ! :o

It has been done, I believe there is a speed record for a car towing a caravan that is well in excess of 100mph. Of course I blame Napoleon and the french revolutionaries for my error, if they had not invented these infernal kilometres and the like there would be none of the confusion and my fingers could not get mixed up between a k and an m.

Bill

 

Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not.

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