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Arrogant attitude, poor quality, appalling dealers, and they wonder why they’re struggling?

 

We have a 2016 Discovery which replaced a 2010 similar model, and the quality of the newer model is very poor when compared with the older one. But, JLR’s attitude to issues leaves much to be desired. For instance, the reversing camera image quality is akin to an ancient VHS video with a faulty tape (the old car’s was crystal clear). JLR’s opinion is “it’s working as intended so isn’t faulty”. That’s just one example.

 

As for their dealers, good ones are VERY few and far between. Perhaps they’ve had it much too easy over the years.

 

There is a serious flaw with the 3. 0-litre Diesel engine in that the big-end shells can rotate (as they didn’t have locking keys) and cause oil starvation to the crankshaft, and that has resulted in a good number of crankshafts snapping. LR apparently might treat a case on an individual basis, but seemingly only if it has full LR service history if outside the pathetic (all European marques are the same though!) three year warranty period. It also seems that JLR’s Extended Warranty specifically exclude this issue as it is “a known fault”. Within the last couple of weeks or so, they have issued recall notices in South Korea and China, but not in the UK. I hope that I’m not tempting fate, but I have asked them why the UK isn’t part of the recall. Surprise, surprise, I’ve not had a response!

 

We have had JLR products in the family since the mid-1950’s, and indeed my wife and I have owned several, including three Discoverys in a row. BUT, unless there is a serious attitude change, this will be our last!

 

JLR, if you survive, you need to look after your core market, not panda to the whim of fashion, but most of all treat your customers as if they are valued! Remember, you are not doing customers a favour by allowing them to buy your products, they are doing you the favour (and supporting your business) by putting hard earned money in your direction.

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Phil 1042 

 

Sorry but I must disagree with one of your posts (a long time back now) 

 

THE best patrol car EVER was the Volvo T5, far superior to the Senator in every respect and yes I did drive both (the Senator only under sufferance if some ****** had “borrowed” my T5!)

 

Andy

 

As for JLR, great bits of kit (especially Rangies) as long as they are working, which sadly in my experience, tended to be rather infrequently. One of the problems I think is the fact that they tend to be SO complex.

 

1041 your old collar no? 

Edited by Mr Plodd

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2 hours ago, xtrailman said:

 

If these SUV's were petrol only not many would be buying one, the MPG and co2 emissions would probably put off most buyers.

 

Owners I know that run £80+ k vehicles don't really worry about mpg ? But small petrols are becoming more common and can produce power and economy equal to diesels with high torque at low revs today and you don't need big petrol engines .  

 

 

Dave

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44 minutes ago, nigel207 said:

. ... JLR, if you survive, you need to look after your core market, not panda to the whim of fashion, but most of all treat your customers as if they are valued! Remember, you are not doing customers a favour by allowing them to buy your products, they are doing you the favour (and supporting your business) by putting hard earned money in your direction. .... 

 

 

I have only owned one brand new JLR product, it was a company car. My experience from the first visit to the showroom through to ownership was not exactly a smooth ride. In service, the car (Freelander 2) was very good, but anything to do with service and the dealership was a struggle, I can certainly remember feeling that the dealer's attitude was somewhat condescending. A couple of matters ended up on the desk of the dealer principle, he was an arrogant so and so, not someone I would have chosen to represent the JLR brand.  

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26 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

Phil 1042 

 

Sorry but I must disagree with one of your posts (a long time back now) 

 

THE best patrol car EVER was the Volvo T5, far superior to the Senator in every respect and yes I did drive both (the Senator only under sufferance if some ****** had “borrowed” my T5!)

 

Andy

 

As for JLR, great bits of kit (especially Rangies) as long as they are working, which sadly in my experience, tended to be rather infrequently. One of the problems I think is the fact that they tend to be SO complex.

 

1041 your old collar no? 

 

The T5 had 250BHP my bright red “brick” had 230 from its crazy 5 cylinder engine.

What an absolute blast to drive-even towing a 1500 kilo caravan!

The only two problems with it were

1 getting it past a petrol pump-mine did 20-24 mpg

2 keeping the front wheels on the ground-you could get wheelspin in 4th in mine.

It was such great fun to drive even the torque steering was almost controllable.

The best fun for me was being overtaken by baseball hatted teens in their illegally souped up hot hatches on the slip approaches to the M8 I would drop the 5 cylinder beast into 3rd or 4th and leave them behind-while towing the caravan!

Up to 60 mph of course😀

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3 hours ago, scotsstag said:

 

 

As a farmer (consider myself a "real" farmer with 1500 breeding ewes and 180 suckler cows;))  AND Defender owner the reason farmers haven't been buying Defenders is that they haven't had any to buy.

May I add that in my area your presumption that we haven't been buying for years if absolute rubbish, 7 (yes, seven) of my 9 (nine) neighbouring farms own and run Defenders,  not Discos,  not RR,  Defenders.

Biggest mistake LR made was stopping one model without either a crossover period or at least a PDQ replacement.

 

I’d have thought you’d be too busy looking after the cattle to spend every weekend underneath the LR putting things right.

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

Phil 1042 

 

Sorry but I must disagree with one of your posts (a long time back now) 

 

THE best patrol car EVER was the Volvo T5, far superior to the Senator in every respect and yes I did drive both (the Senator only under sufferance if some ****** had “borrowed” my T5!)

 

Andy

 

As for JLR, great bits of kit (especially Rangies) as long as they are working, which sadly in my experience, tended to be rather infrequently. One of the problems I think is the fact that they tend to be SO complex.

 

1041 your old collar no? 

in drove both too. The Senator was a better car in period. It is unfair to compare both as the T5 is a younger car although there was an overlap as some forces stock piled the Senator when they knew production was chasing hence the occasion M reg example.

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1 hour ago, nigel207 said:

Arrogant attitude, poor quality, appalling dealers, and they wonder why they’re struggling?

 

We have a 2016 Discovery which replaced a 2010 similar model, and the quality of the newer model is very poor when compared with the older one. But, JLR’s attitude to issues leaves much to be desired. For instance, the reversing camera image quality is akin to an ancient VHS video with a faulty tape (the old car’s was crystal clear). JLR’s opinion is “it’s working as intended so isn’t faulty”. That’s just one example.

 

As for their dealers, good ones are VERY few and far between. Perhaps they’ve had it much too easy over the years.

 

There is a serious flaw with the 3. 0-litre Diesel engine in that the big-end shells can rotate (as they didn’t have locking keys) and cause oil starvation to the crankshaft, and that has resulted in a good number of crankshafts snapping. LR apparently might treat a case on an individual basis, but seemingly only if it has full LR service history if outside the pathetic (all European marques are the same though!) three year warranty period. It also seems that JLR’s Extended Warranty specifically exclude this issue as it is “a known fault”. Within the last couple of weeks or so, they have issued recall notices in South Korea and China, but not in the UK. I hope that I’m not tempting fate, but I have asked them why the UK isn’t part of the recall. Surprise, surprise, I’ve not had a response!

 

We have had JLR products in the family since the mid-1950’s, and indeed my wife and I have owned several, including three Discoverys in a row. BUT, unless there is a serious attitude change, this will be our last!

 

JLR, if you survive, you need to look after your core market, not panda to the whim of fashion, but most of all treat your customers as if they are valued! Remember, you are not doing customers a favour by allowing them to buy your products, they are doing you the favour (and supporting your business) by putting hard earned money in your direction.

:goodpost:

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2 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

If I remember Land Rover started as a sewing machine company .

https://www. winwaed. com/landy/history/timeline. php

 

Dave

Nearly. .. James  Starley and Josiah Hunter started the Coventry Sewing Machine Company c. 1861.  Stanley's nephew John Kemp Starley worked in the sewing machine factory for his uncle who, along with a man named William Hillman went on to develop Ariel cycles.

 

In 1877 John K Starley left to start his own bicycle business with one William Sutton.   By 1883 the bicycles were branded as 'Rover'.  In 1885 the Rover Safety Cycle was Invented.  In 1889, the company became J. K. Starley & Co. Ltd and in the late 1890s, it become the Rover Cycle Company Ltd.

 

After Starley died the company started producing motorbikes and then in 1901,  cars.  The Land Rover appeared in 1948.

 

The only connection Land Rover has with sewing machines is the man who went on to start the the Rover company used to work in a sewing machine factory.  Tenuous to say the least :)

 

 

Edited by happynomad

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3 hours ago, nigel207 said:

Arrogant attitude, poor quality, appalling dealers, and they wonder why they’re struggling?

 

We have a 2016 Discovery which replaced a 2010 similar model, and the quality of the newer model is very poor when compared with the older one. But, JLR’s attitude to issues leaves much to be desired. For instance, the reversing camera image quality is akin to an ancient VHS video with a faulty tape (the old car’s was crystal clear). JLR’s opinion is “it’s working as intended so isn’t faulty”. That’s just one example.

 

As for their dealers, good ones are VERY few and far between. Perhaps they’ve had it much too easy over the years.

 

There is a serious flaw with the 3. 0-litre Diesel engine in that the big-end shells can rotate (as they didn’t have locking keys) and cause oil starvation to the crankshaft, and that has resulted in a good number of crankshafts snapping. LR apparently might treat a case on an individual basis, but seemingly only if it has full LR service history if outside the pathetic (all European marques are the same though!) three year warranty period. It also seems that JLR’s Extended Warranty specifically exclude this issue as it is “a known fault”. Within the last couple of weeks or so, they have issued recall notices in South Korea and China, but not in the UK. I hope that I’m not tempting fate, but I have asked them why the UK isn’t part of the recall. Surprise, surprise, I’ve not had a response!

 

We have had JLR products in the family since the mid-1950’s, and indeed my wife and I have owned several, including three Discoverys in a row. BUT, unless there is a serious attitude change, this will be our last!

 

JLR, if you survive, you need to look after your core market, not panda to the whim of fashion, but most of all treat your customers as if they are valued! Remember, you are not doing customers a favour by allowing them to buy your products, they are doing you the favour (and supporting your business) by putting hard earned money in your direction.

Exactly what happened to my mates Range Rover 3. 0 diesel. Total engine failure as you describe above on a 2013 vehicle with only 35,000 on the clock & a full dealer service history. JLR's attitude -nothing to do with them  & if you want a new engine that'll be the best part of 10k please.  

He's got the same attitude as me now - it has to be jap or german.  

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I owned and worked on series LRs for years and know every nut and bolt  and rebuilt every unit and they were a marvelous and reliable vehicle that you could drive anywhere and repairs could be carried out without to much tooling as they were a giant Meccano set .   

 

If I wanted a reliable 4x4 that I owned a worked on and could trust to go anywhere and designed to do the job and serious piece of kit was the Austin Champ but they cost double the cost of a new Land Rover and the reason why the British Army dropped them for the cheaper Series Land Rovers as they were built to well . Rolls Royce 2. 8 engine and built like a tank with 110 mph and 110 in reverse with no limiters . I used to tow some heavy boats with mine and we used to drag 40 t artics for recovery up steep slopes with no problems .

https://www. classiccarsforsale. co. uk/reviews/classic-austin-reviews-champ

 

Dave

 

Edited by CommanderDave

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13 hours ago, stattam said:

in drove both too. The Senator was a better car in period. It is unfair to compare both as the T5 is a younger car although there was an overlap as some forces stock piled the Senator when they knew production was chasing hence the occasion M reg example.

I was lucky enough to drive both regularly too as Traffic cars. In the case of the Senator it was the 24valve version (which followed a succession of Ford Granadas).

 

I have to say that whilst the Senator wasn’t as quick as the T5, I MUCH preferred it on a day to day basis. It was for more predicatable and at times fun (you could deliberately do things with it that I won’t disclose on here! LOL) than the T5, the early ones of which suffered awfully from torque steer. They were also much quieter too, with a silky-smooth straight six as opposed to the really “thrummy” 5-cylinder of the Volvo.

 

We came to the Senators very late (J - M reg), but early to the 850 T5’s.

 

Halcion days!!

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23 hours ago, nigel207 said:

Arrogant attitude, poor quality, appalling dealers, and they wonder why they’re struggling?

 

We have a 2016 Discovery which replaced a 2010 similar model, and the quality of the newer model is very poor when compared with the older one. But, JLR’s attitude to issues leaves much to be desired. For instance, the reversing camera image quality is akin to an ancient VHS video with a faulty tape (the old car’s was crystal clear). JLR’s opinion is “it’s working as intended so isn’t faulty”. That’s just one example.

 

As for their dealers, good ones are VERY few and far between. Perhaps they’ve had it much too easy over the years.

 

There is a serious flaw with the 3. 0-litre Diesel engine in that the big-end shells can rotate (as they didn’t have locking keys) and cause oil starvation to the crankshaft, and that has resulted in a good number of crankshafts snapping. LR apparently might treat a case on an individual basis, but seemingly only if it has full LR service history if outside the pathetic (all European marques are the same though!) three year warranty period. It also seems that JLR’s Extended Warranty specifically exclude this issue as it is “a known fault”. Within the last couple of weeks or so, they have issued recall notices in South Korea and China, but not in the UK. I hope that I’m not tempting fate, but I have asked them why the UK isn’t part of the recall. Surprise, surprise, I’ve not had a response!

 

We have had JLR products in the family since the mid-1950’s, and indeed my wife and I have owned several, including three Discoverys in a row. BUT, unless there is a serious attitude change, this will be our last!

 

JLR, if you survive, you need to look after your core market, not panda to the whim of fashion, but most of all treat your customers as if they are valued! Remember, you are not doing customers a favour by allowing them to buy your products, they are doing you the favour (and supporting your business) by putting hard earned money in your direction.

Absolutely correct,I have a late 2015 D4 with 12,500 on the clock,this is my third land rover and the newest one I have ever had. First service (it has the land rover five year free service ) the door tred plate was badly scratched,I complained and the service manager put his hands up and said yes bring it back and we will replace the scratched one. On my return I was told no we cannot replace the plate as they are after market and we cannot replace those with genuine LR ones, so there goes the good will and for a measly cost of the plate they have lost a repeat prospective customer, not that I would buy a D5 anyway,but what they did say was if I bought anothers set of after market plates they would fit them free of charge,company policy they said:o . Whilst in deapest Spain last summer engine management light came on and we were advised to drive to Segovia the LR agent a round trip over 120 miles,luckily the Spanish agent were brilliant,we had an appointment and went straight into the workshop whilst we had real coffe brought to us in the waiting room ( sadly not very posh )The fault was cleared and we were on our way.   Also the start stop has never worked not that I miss that anyway,anyway  after all said and done I still think its a marvelous vehicle and tows our caravan with ease,it's just is it going to be reliable?....and please God my crankshaft does not break . However you could have bought Disco sport and then you would have the problem of diesel dilluting your engine oil,another problem LR say its your style of driving style that creates the problem  :rolleyes:. Pull your socks up LR, design it right and build it right,its not rocket science :angry:.   After thought. ...the loan car I was given was absolutly filthy,and not enough fuel to get me home I had to buy fuel,and as I had collected the evocue just as the dealership was closing nobody there to authorise payent,you could not make it up !!:(

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1 hour ago, Malc Edge said:

Absolutely correct,I have a late 2015 D4 with 12,500 on the clock,this is my third land rover and the newest one I have ever had. First service (it has the land rover five year free service ) the door tred plate was badly scratched,I complained and the service manager put his hands up and said yes bring it back and we will replace the scratched one. On my return I was told no we cannot replace the plate as they are after market and we cannot replace those with genuine LR ones, so there goes the good will and for a measly cost of the plate they have lost a repeat prospective customer, not that I would buy a D5 anyway,but what they did say was if I bought anothers set of after market plates they would fit them free of charge,company policy they said:o . Whilst in deapest Spain last summer engine management light came on and we were advised to drive to Segovia the LR agent a round trip over 120 miles,luckily the Spanish agent were brilliant,we had an appointment and went straight into the workshop whilst we had real coffe brought to us in the waiting room ( sadly not very posh )The fault was cleared and we were on our way.   Also the start stop has never worked not that I miss that anyway,anyway  after all said and done I still think its a marvelous vehicle and tows our caravan with ease,it's just is it going to be reliable?....and please God my crankshaft does not break . However you could have bought Disco sport and then you would have the problem of diesel dilluting your engine oil,another problem LR say its your style of driving style that creates the problem  :rolleyes:. Pull your socks up LR, design it right and build it right,its not rocket science :angry:.   After thought. ...the loan car I was given was absolutly filthy,and not enough fuel to get me home I had to buy fuel,and as I had collected the evocue just as the dealership was closing nobody there to authorise payent,you could not make it up !!:(

 

Malc, I couldn’t agree more! Superb all-round vehicles, and especially when it comes to towing. I bought ours on the back of being a judge at an annual tow car event. There are others that have equally as good points (some are better at some things), but NONE has come close to ticking every box! And there lies a problem. What will ours be replaced with? 

 

So, it’s so sad that JLR and the stealers let themselves down so badly. Perhaps the answer is to adopt the Continental style garages. Offer good service, but in perfectly functional premises, not the gin palaces that we have here in the UK. At the end of the day, that has to be paid for, and guess who foots the bill?

 

It’s a good job (or maybe not) that the 3. 0 litre diesel isn’t available in the USA, otherwise JLR would be taken to the cleaners. They certainly need a good kick up the backside, and the only way to do it is hit them in their profits.

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On 10/01/2019 at 15:58, scotsstag said:

 

 

As a farmer (consider myself a "real" farmer with 1500 breeding ewes and 180 suckler cows;))  AND Defender owner the reason farmers haven't been buying Defenders is that they haven't had any to buy.

May I add that in my area your presumption that we haven't been buying for years if absolute rubbish, 7 (yes, seven) of my 9 (nine) neighbouring farms own and run Defenders,  not Discos,  not RR,  Defenders.

Biggest mistake LR made was stopping one model without either a crossover period or at least a PDQ replacement.

That's true round our way too. Mostly sheep farmers and they tend to have defenders towing their sheep trailers.

 

My brother's a farmer (beef) and he has a pickup but he doesn't actually do much off road work at all (he has a New Holland for that)

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I do think that there is still a need for nut and bolt motors as opposed to computer run stuff. If you’re on a hill side miles from anywhere with your animals to feed, you need something that can be fixed with an adjustable spanner and a hammer.  

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Unfortunately new vehicles have to meet modern emission standards so a simple car that can be kept going with a socket set, lump hammer and patience isn’t feasible - the only options are to keep older cars going or accept that there are some things beyond the ability of a home mechanic.

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49 minutes ago, Odd days said:

I do think that there is still a need for nut and bolt motors as opposed to computer run stuff. If you’re on a hill side miles from anywhere with your animals to feed, you need something that can be fixed with an adjustable spanner and a hammer.  

I  do not doubt that, but when does "a need" play any significant part in motor industry planning?

The simple fact is that the powers that be do not see profit in such a vehicle, if built within the current legislative framework!

If a vehicle does not have complex electronics it will never meet current emissions standards. "Nut and  bolt" construction is fine if you want to do low tech repairs, but is very expensive on the production line!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/01/2019 at 22:24, CommanderDave said:

I owned and worked on series LRs for years and know every nut and bolt  and rebuilt every unit and they were a marvelous and reliable vehicle that you could drive anywhere and repairs could be carried out without to much tooling as they were a giant Meccano set .   

Dave

In the sixties and seventies we used Landrovers a lot for bush work for which they were designed.   They were pretty reliable and a bush mechanic could fix them and you would be on your way.  

I think the biggest issue with them was the handbrake as it clamped onto the half shaft.   If you pulled the handbrake on while still moving even if it was at 1mph, the half shaft would either twist or break! 

Another issue that came along later was that the extra fuel tanks were under the front seats not so good if travelling along gravel roads that may have landmines planted in it.   :unsure:

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We often broke halfshafts on RAF series 3  LRs! Usually due to applying the parking brake before the vehicle was fully stopped! Also giving it too much welly  could break them!(moi?). They were normally in rear wheel drive except off road! If one broke put it in 4 high and take it to workshop!

You used to have to open door and lift out the seat bases to fill the under seat tanks!  There was a spout which lifted up to facilitate using jerricans.

Civvy ones usually had one tank with a filler cap on side panel!

I had my own S3  later on but was careful so avoided breakage!

Not sure if it was a problem with later 9/110 and Defenders which use the permanant 4x4 setup.  

 

Edited by 664DaveS

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On 10/01/2019 at 18:40, jetA1 said:

 

I have only owned one brand new JLR product, it was a company car. My experience from the first visit to the showroom through to ownership was not exactly a smooth ride. In service, the car (Freelander 2) was very good, but anything to do with service and the dealership was a struggle, I can certainly remember feeling that the dealer's attitude was somewhat condescending. A couple of matters ended up on the desk of the dealer principle, he was an arrogant so and so, not someone I would have chosen to represent the JLR brand.  

This arrogance seems to be a thing with some main dealers,my friend went to buy a Merc but the attitude of the sales man was so poor  he walked away,and he had enough money to buy the car he wanted,he then went to Audi and bought an X5.

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4 minutes ago, Malc Edge said:

This arrogance seems to be a thing with some main dealers,my friend went to buy a Merc but the attitude of the sales man was so poor  he walked away,and he had enough money to buy the car he wanted,he then went to Audi and bought an X5.

 Presumably he'd have been better off at the BMW dealership then?!

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3 hours ago, 664DaveS said:

We often broke halfshafts on RAF series 3  LRs! Usually due to applying the parking brake before the vehicle was fully stopped! Also giving it too much welly  could break them!(moi?). They were normally in rear wheel drive except off road! If one broke put it in 4 high and take it to workshop!

You used to have to open door and lift out the seat bases to fill the under seat tanks!  There was a spout which lifted up to facilitate using jerricans.

Civvy ones usually had one tank with a filler cap on side panel!

I had my own S3  later on but was careful so avoided breakage!

Not sure if it was a problem with later 9/110 and Defenders which use the permanant 4x4 setup.  

 

Army 90’s and 110’s were forever snapping half shafts, I’ve changed loads. The latest ‘Wolf’ Defenders which came into service in 97/98 were much more robust.

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2 hours ago, Malc Edge said:

This arrogance seems to be a thing with some main dealers,my friend went to buy a Merc but the attitude of the sales man was so poor  he walked away,and he had enough money to buy the car he wanted,he then went to Audi and bought an X5.

I assume you meant a Q5? 

Anyway - the bloke who started this thread - apparently a land rover nut - ditched his disco & bought an X5. Friends who've had JLR products have all had trouble. My next door neighbour had a jag as his company car & he said that even routine servicing was a pain at our local dealer. He now drives a golf.  

I'm not saying all other brand dealers are great by any means, our local kia/ Mitsubishi/ citreon dealer - perhaps as they have too many brands under one roof - certainly aren't great. But it does seem a common comment throughout this thread that the JLR dealers have a poor attitude.  

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