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Average Speed Cameras On Motorways - Do They Work?


Jools12
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I travelled through the road works on the M6 north of Birmingham this afternoon and have been left with the feeling that many in the population do not understand the concept of "average".

 

A section of this road is being upgraded to "managed motorway" and has a 50 mph speed limit and the yellow gantry type cameras. I simply set my cruise control at 50 and sit in in the inside lane and watch people go past me at speeds varying from "I'm just pushing the tolerance of my speedo" up to "I haven't a clue what average is but braking at the yellow camera should make me OK" and not including the people who must be leaving the country very shortly or have diplomatic immunity.

 

Has anyone been caught by these average speed cameras or know anyone who has?

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I have no idea if they work.

 

But why wouldn't braking at the last minute ( however abhorrent) not give the right average?

 

As I understood it, they don't TIME your passage though the section. They record your actual speed at several points and average those numbers.

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I think they work on number plate recognition - recording the time when entering the road works, and then the time of exit - take one from the other and divide the known distance by the time - that's your average speed.

John

Edited by Johnaldo
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Average speed cam eras ie specs take your time taken to go between at least two cameras then calculate your average speed allegedly

Beat me to it Mr star :-)

Edited by HDom

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Yip !! Have been done on the A1 on a Fifty due to Lane Closure . ...... Doing 54 mph . .... The auld 56mph HGV syndrome. ..... Simply was not paying attention so was DONE !! 3 Points a Sixty Squid later, ,,,,,,,,,,, :(

 

GAS, ,,,,, :angry:

Edited by Grumpy Auld Smeesh

"to be auld and wise you must first be young and daft "

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Don't know about the specific ones you are talking about, but you can usually see the cables running between them. On a road from Gainsborough to Bawtry there's a set of about 8-10 average speed cameras and only the first set and last set work this i know because someone i know travels that road daily well in excess of the speed limit which is 50 mph and never been ticketed. these are permanent cameras and not mobile like the ones you mentioned suppose they couldn't be bothered to cable up the 6 ml or so between them as they run into countryside and through a small village (there just as a deterrent i suppose )

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I have no idea if they work.

 

But why wouldn't braking at the last minute ( however abhorrent) not give the right average?

 

As I understood it, they don't TIME your passage though the section. They record your actual speed at several points and average those numbers.

Have a read here http://www. speedcamerasuk. com/specs. htm

 

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Don't know about the specific ones you are talking about, but you can usually see the cables running between them. On a road from Gainsborough to Bawtry there's a set of about 8-10 average speed cameras and only the first set and last set work this i know because someone i know travels that road daily well in excess of the speed limit which is 50 mph and never been ticketed. these are permanent cameras and not mobile like the ones you mentioned suppose they couldn't be bothered to cable up the 6 ml or so between them as they run into countryside and through a small village (there just as a deterrent i suppose )

 

There are 3 inidividual pairs of cameras, 1 pair just outside Bawtry, the next pair going through Gringley and the last pair at Beckingham. Each pair of cameras do work in their own right but none of the pairs are linked to another pair. They don't always have cables either, I have seen solar powered with 3G for data comms.

 

Ap

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Those familiar with the A77 heading into Ayr will know there are some there.

 

We are often on that stretch of road heading to Craigie Gardens CC site. Most people stick to 50 . .. however on one occassion a guy in a Merc flew past us at an estimated 70-80mph. Next layby we passed he had pulled in. Next minute flew past us again. Next layby there he was again!

 

Don't think this is quite what the authorties had planned!

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AP

" I stand corrected " just stating what i was told. Obviously your stomping ground, as you say they are in pairs and not in series along the full stretch

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It is rumoured, that when there where specs cameras on the M1 around junc 21 a couple of years ago, they were pulling in £19000 a day, personal thought, they are all there to collect revenue so I don't give them the satisfaction.

Edited by Marks

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They do work! My son found that out! :(

Edited by gravon42

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AP

" I stand corrected " just stating what i was told. Obviously your stomping ground, as you say they are in pairs and not in series along the full stretch

 

I only know about this from my time at school. GCSE in I. T. One of the topics was I. T. In the community, I contacted the police to see if we could get someone in to talk to the students, they were happy to help and from the classroom we looked at live data from the 3 pairs of cameras. We could see vehicles at Bawtry and see them all the way through to Beckingham using ANPR, I can't remember all of the stats but it was interesting to see.

 

Ap

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They do work! My son found that out! :(

Mine too, last year, the nip arrived on our doormat, he was on the M60, permanent cameras at the Bredbury turnoff 50mph speed limit, he was doing an average 61mph, so I wrote back telling them that he was here on holiday, driving a hire car (all true) and gave them his address, Pattaya, Thailand. :lol: We were over there 2 weeks ago, the nip was still on his kitchen worktop, God knows what will happen next ;)

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We have them regularly down here on the M27 and M275.

 

The local paper is full of people who have been caught 5 or more times in a fortnight!!!

 

Not sure what the tolerance is though. ... my speedo differs from my satnav by 1mph at 40mph. ... I suspect the cameras are set at 52mph or higher. . so could I do 53 and get away with it?

 

Not planning on testing it anytime soon!!!

 

G.

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left with the feeling that many in the population do not understand the concept of "average".

 

 

"I haven't a clue what average is but braking at the yellow camera should make me OK"

 

I think this is part of the problem. I've been as amazed as you at the speed of some vehicles on the M62 over the last couple of years on the sections with 50 mph average speed cameras. People do break just before the cameras so they can't understand the concept of 'average'.

 

No doubt we can blame falling educational standards again :ph34r: . It's not so long ago that National Lottery withdrew a certain scratch card because people had no concept of negative numbers. Ah well, I suppose we can't all be mathematicians :D .

 

Gordon

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We have them regularly down here on the M27 and M275.

 

The local paper is full of people who have been caught 5 or more times in a fortnight!!!

 

Not sure what the tolerance is though. ... my speedo differs from my satnav by 1mph at 40mph. ... I suspect the cameras are set at 52mph or higher. . so could I do 53 and get away with it?

 

Not planning on testing it anytime soon!!!

 

G.

I seem to recall that +5% + 2 mph were the set point for prosecution so a 50 limit would trigger action at 54. 5 mph minimum

 

Ap

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I seem to recall that +5% + 2 mph were the set point for prosecution so a 50 limit would trigger action at 54. 5 mph minimum

 

Ap

 

I've seen that too!!!! But still wouldn't want to test the theory!!! LOL. G.

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I think this is part of the problem. I've been as amazed as you at the speed of some vehicles on the M62 over the last couple of years on the sections with 50 mph average speed cameras. People do break just before the cameras so they can't understand the concept of 'average'.

 

No doubt we can blame falling educational standards again :ph34r: . It's not so long ago that National Lottery withdrew a certain scratch card because people had no concept of negative numbers. Ah well, I suppose we can't all be mathematicians :D .

 

Gordon

Well clearly I fall into your subnormal intelligence category. . despite having a two degrees.

 

Averages can be derived in several ways.

 

Maybe, like me, they assumed they took still 'snap shots' of instantaneous speeds and did the math on those numbers.

 

So not necessarily due to falling educational standards but maybe just 'blindspots' we mere mortals have in our thinking, from time to time.

 

Like other posters, being a basic law abiding citizen, I always set the crruise control to the sat nav figure and keep a constant speed, so I have never bothered to consider for a moment how it worked.

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SPECS speed camera systems commonly enforce speed limits on dual carriageways and motorways. SPECS gantry installations can monitor up to four lanes. The SPECS system are located at the side of the road or at central reservations. Cameras are then located at regular intervals to operate a managed speed control zone.


Each SPECS speed camera records a date and time stamp. Then, by ANPR, the computer can then work out your average speed between the cameras with photographic evidence that you were speeding between the SPECS cameras. SPECS speed cameras also record your number plate and issue you a speeding ticket if you were speeding along the average speed controlled stretch of road.




The ten percent plus 2 mph is an ACPO recommendation but not all operators follow it. They can steal more from us if the limit is rigorously enforced.


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NO, NO,NO - you do not have a tolerance. The speed limit is the speed limit however the Police have some discretion on how strictly they enforce it and some officers and some forces are significantly more zealous in their use or lack of it.

 

Likewise your speed is not allowed to under read by even 1mph. The law allows a speedo to over read by up to 110% plus 6. 25mph, so it could actually read 50. 25 when you are doing 40mph but it must not read 51 when you are doing 50. Virtually all speedo over read by a reasonable margin to take into account tyre wear & pressures

 

You can't argue that your sat nav indicated the correct speed because that's not the approved device for you to measure your speed with.

 

My wife had a visit to the control centre when ANPR averaging cameras were first introduced in Nottinghamshire - about 14 years ago and I'm sure it's a lot cleverer now than it was then. She said it was fascinating how the car numbers were flashing past together with their calculated speed and how any that exceeded the threshold just got popped into the list for nicking. The software was sufficiently flexible for several thresholds to be set so that it was easier to sort - the different lists filled at different rates - those just over the limit filled the lists a lot quicker than those who were significantly over. It could also highlight numberplates "of interest" if you get my meaning

Edited by matelodave

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I am forever amazed that people set their speed via a sat nav device, even more amazed that they think NASA may back up their case in it's accuracy.

 

H.

Finding things funny since 1968 :blink:

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NO, NO,NO - you do not have a tolerance. The speed limit is the speed limit however the Police have some discretion on how strictly they enforce it and some officers and some forces are significantly more zealous in their use or lack of it.

 

Likewise your speed is not allowed to under read by even 1mph. The law allows a speedo to over read by up to 110% plus 6. 25mph, so it could actually read 50. 25 when you are doing 40mph but it must not read 51 when you are doing 50. Virtually all speedo over read by a reasonable margin to take into account tyre wear & pressures

 

You can't argue that your sat nav indicated the correct speed because that's not the approved device for you to measure your speed with.

 

My wife had a visit to the control centre when ANPR averaging cameras were first introduced in Nottinghamshire - about 14 years ago and I'm sure it's a lot cleverer now than it was then. She said it was fascinating how the car numbers were flashing past together with their calculated speed and how any that exceeded the threshold just got popped into the list for nicking. The software was sufficiently flexible for several thresholds to be set so that it was easier to sort - the different lists filled at different rates - those just over the limit filled the lists a lot quicker than those who were significantly over. It could also highlight numberplates "of interest" if you get my meaning

Thank you for the information, I shall certainly be thinking from now on, informative and concise information is what we all need

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The 40mph ones on the M23 caught 70 people 2 weeks ago and 50 last week. They update the signs to remind you.

Enjoy every minute of every day. It doesn't last nearly as long as you'd like, and there's no guarantee of coming this way again.

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