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Losing Faith


smithbuild
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Only had my Avante 515 from September ( brand new ), been out in once and is now in storage.

First night and bed slats at rear fell apart so had to screw front slide together.

Alarm sensor failed ( sorted out direct with alarm supplier )

Noise from heating. ( sorted out direct with whale )

Cracked rear abs panel on both corners ( waiting to be sorted )

Now went to check on van yesterday to find stain to ceiling around main rooflight, put damp meter on and a reading of 42% damp. Found leak coming through corner of rooflight, sealant had come away.

Have temporary sealed it with silicone until can be sorted by dealer who has been fine so far.

My concern is if the sealant has failed on the rooflight I hope it hold up on the rest of the van.

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Easy option. Reject it. Speak with the dealer and give them a chance but be clear with them that if they can't then you should get your money back

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Don't get me wrong, I like the van and am sure things will get sorted.

I know you will have problems with new vans, but just little things which I can sort myself. The rooflight is an easy repair but hope the ceiling dries without leaving a stain. If not can it be re papered or do they renew the whole panel ? The rear abs is different story.

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Not a lot you can say really, except "absolutely terrible"

 

I Cannot understand the seal coming away from the corner of the roof hatch, I thought these caravans were chemically bonded !

 

How sad to have to use a clear silicon, to seal a new caravan for a temporary repair, Elddis should be ashamed and I had high hopes for these caravans.

 

You do need to reject this caravan, unfortunately its not always that easy (been there, got the T-shirt) but you need to regardless. Your experience (good or bad) and outcome will all rest on the dealers attitude towards your problems and how they assess their responsibility for a fast and easy solution .

 

Another sad day for British caravans builders.

 

Very best of luck, but use your rights and you wont need luck.

Edited by Gaz40
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BRAND NEW?!! I'm in shock! That has to be totally unacceptable.

T00ts

You've only failed when you've stopped trying! xx

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I too would reject the van. You have paid good money for a product that is not fit for purpose.

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A responsible manufacturer would be fearful of your potential rejection, as it will cost 000's as well as reputation and dealer relationship. Therefore, someone from the manufacturer should toddle out to your home, nip it in the bud, reassure you, apologise, and PUT IT RIGHT PROMPTLY.

That's what was always done in my experience.

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Posts like this and the problems myself and others have experienced recently make me wonder if it's time to sell up especially if you can't buy a replacement that is any better :(

 

Don't know what's going on with the uk caravan industry but it's embarrassing - wish I'd kept my 1998 Fleetwood or not bothered returning to caravanning!

A Vanner without a van due to the demands of DIY and SWMBO - 40 years was a good run though :unsure:

 

Now a Motorhome Learner with a Fiat Toad :o

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Bonding is only as good as the person applying the adhesive if the workforce don't care then this is the result unfortunately the person applying it in this case probably did other joints as well on the caravan.

Steve

2017 Dethleffs Globus I1 Motorhome.

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A responsible manufacturer would be fearful of your potential rejection, as it will cost 000's as well as reputation and dealer relationship. Therefore, someone from the manufacturer should toddle out to your home, nip it in the bud, reassure you, apologise, and PUT IT RIGHT PROMPTLY.

That's what was always done in my experience.

 

The legal road to rejection has nothing to do with the manufacturer and they are exempt from responsibility (Believe it or not) Its the manufacture who is responsible for either returning your money and possibly with expenses or a total replacement. (Your contract is with the dealer)

 

It is then the dealers problem to in turn reject the faulty caravan for replacement or a full repair to the manufacture and not the customers. (The dealers contract is with the manufacture)

Edited by Gaz40
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As said you have no legal come back on a manufacturer as your contract is with the dealer.

 

IMO I would as said reject the can straight away formally in a letter and email before you have had it over the 6 month period. Take photos and note any phone calls to whom you spoke to at the dealer . Reject it under SOGA and seek legal advice.

 

Those ceiling boards will need replacing as once they show the dark marks behind the vinyl it is marked.

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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The legal road to rejection has nothing to do with the manufacturer and they are exempt from responsibility (Believe it or not) Its the manufacture who is responsible for either returning your money and possibly with expenses or a total replacement. (Your contract is with the dealer)

 

It is then the dealers problem to in turn reject the faulty caravan for replacement or a full repair to the manufacture and not the customers. (The dealers contract is with the manufacture)

Agreed, and I am fully aware of SOGA, however, as a manufacturer, I would regularly interject before it gets to rejection, in order to close the situation down, and retain my relationship with the dealer.

As soon as rejection is being considered, the dealer is already talking to the manufacturer to get financial or practical support. My point was, that I would regularly get involved before that stage, in order to preserve reputation and retain goodwill with owner.

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Agreed, and I am fully aware of SOGA, however, as a manufacturer, I would regularly interject before it gets to rejection, in order to close the situation down, and retain my relationship with the dealer.

As soon as rejection is being considered, the dealer is already talking to the manufacturer to get financial or practical support. My point was, that I would regularly get involved before that stage, in order to preserve reputation and retain goodwill with owner.

Hi abh1493, are you actually in the industry. ......?

I'M OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER. ...But I don't. ...😩😩😩

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As said you have no legal come back on a manufacturer as your contract is with the dealer.

 

IMO I would as said reject the can straight away formally in a letter and email before you have had it over the 6 month period. Take photos and note any phone calls to whom you spoke to at the dealer . Reject it under SOGA and seek legal advice.

 

Those ceiling boards will need replacing as once they show the dark marks behind the vinyl it is marked.

 

 

Dave

 

With respect any Trading Standards Office will disagree, any communication with a third party such as the manufacture (other that the supply dealer) can cloud any future possible judgements.

 

Great if the manufacture wants to get involved, but it should be with their dealers and instructing them to communicate with their customer and offer a replacement through the dealer. If manufactures take back faulty caravans from the dealer more readily, when a caravan is made a lemon, the dealers would offer replacements more easily and it would be naturally less hassle for all concerned.

 

I would suggest its the manufactures blocking dealers returning caravans if possible and pushing for repair.

Edited by Gaz40
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="Gaz40" post="972026" timestamp="1388838179"]

With respect any Trading Standards Office will disagree, any communication with a third party such as the manufacture (other that the supply dealer) can cloud any future possible judgements.

 

Great if the manufacture wants to get involved, but it should be with their dealers and instructing them to communicate with their customer and offer a replacement through the dealer. If manufactures take back faulty caravans from the dealer more readily, when a caravan is made a lemon, the dealers would offer replacements more easily and it would be naturally less hassle for all concerned.

 

I would suggest its the manufactures blocking dealers returning caravans if possible and pushing for repair.

 

 

I said trying to contact a manufacturer is a waste,of time because any legal action is against the dealer and if you reject the caravan under SOGA then the first 6 months is in your favour .

 

Don't let the dealer play for time .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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Hi abh1493, are you actually in the industry. ......?

I was for 35 years

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I said trying to contact a manufacturer is a waste,of time because any legal action is against the dealer and if you reject the caravan under SOGA then the first 6 months is in your favour .

 

Don't let the dealer play for time .

 

 

Dave

 

Sorry CommanderDave :blush::blush:

 

My reply wasn't meant for you, I'll repost it below.

 

G40

Agreed, and I am fully aware of SOGA, however, as a manufacturer, I would regularly interject before it gets to rejection, in order to close the situation down, and retain my relationship with the dealer.

As soon as rejection is being considered, the dealer is already talking to the manufacturer to get financial or practical support. My point was, that I would regularly get involved before that stage, in order to preserve reputation and retain goodwill with owner.

With respect any Trading Standards Office will disagree, any communication with a third party such as the manufacture (other that the supply dealer) can cloud any future possible judgements for the customer rejecting goods.

 

Great if the manufacture wants to get involved, but it should be with their dealers and instructing them to communicate with their customer and offer a replacement through the dealer. If manufactures take back faulty caravans from the dealer more readily, when a caravan is made a lemon, the dealers would offer replacements more easily and it would be naturally less hassle for all concerned.

 

I would suggest its the manufactures blocking dealers returning caravans if possible and pushing for repair.

Edited by Gaz40
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Sorry CommanderDave :blush::blush:

 

My reply wasn't meant for you, I'll repost it below.

 

G40

 

With respect any Trading Standards Office will disagree, any communication with a third party such as the manufacture (other that the supply dealer) can cloud any future possible judgements for the customer rejecting goods.

Great if the manufacture wants to get involved, but it should be with their dealers and instructing them to communicate with their customer and offer a replacement through the dealer. If manufactures take back faulty caravans from the dealer more readily, when a caravan is made a lemon, the dealers would offer replacements more easily and it would be naturally less hassle for all concerned.

I would suggest its the manufactures blocking dealers returning caravans if possible and pushing for repair.

Not sure of your point but,

It's not in anyone's interests to let these things fester, which is why I would jump in to support ASAP. But, replacements are only offered after a lengthy negotiation, and only with manufs authority.

Many dealers still don't understand the law and rely on the manufs support. I would go out to nip things, as a factory repair or engineer attention would usually take the sting out of the situation. A factory apology also usually helped.

At the end of the day, exchanging costs a fortune for dealer and manuf, so I would go to great lengths to avoid this.

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Is this Avante of the SoLiD assembly process? First signs of any bonding faults if it is?

formerly ClassikFan

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Modern technology seems to be making the problems worse, everything seems to made down to a price instead of up to a quality.

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Modern technology seems to be making the problems worse, everything seems to made down to a price instead of up to a quality.

Too right, the quest for lightness led us into poplar ply everywhere, dodgy wall and roof fixings, and even thinner bonded sides, and then the van gets filled with heavier appliances. !!!

I've said before, I'm beltnbraces, a bodyshell has less strength these days, flexes more, hence all sorts of body issues, including leaking front panorama roof windows. Furniture away from walls and roofs, and side creases.

Oh for the old days!!

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Not sure of your point but,

It's not in anyone's interests to let these things fester, which is why I would jump in to support ASAP. But, replacements are only offered after a lengthy negotiation, and only with manufs authority.

Many dealers still don't understand the law and rely on the manufs support. I would go out to nip things, as a factory repair or engineer attention would usually take the sting out of the situation. A factory apology also usually helped.

At the end of the day, exchanging costs a fortune for dealer and manuf, so I would go to great lengths to avoid this.

 

If a purchaser starts to negotiate with the Dealer and Manufacture over a faulty product, it can compromise any future legal action if the problem is not resolved. Again the purchasers contract is with the dealer not the manufacture. If a manufacture wants to remedy the problem quickly, they should support their Dealers more affectively. Especially during a claim of rejection. What about the months that caravans have been at the manufactures factory for repairs.

 

No ones mentioned "letting things fester" I'm sure a owner of a problem caravan would want a quick solution.

 

Why have "lengthy negotiations" what's the need for them, if a manufacture takes responsibility for a product with serious defects from its original build, that would reduce a solution time.

 

I'm sure dealers fully understand consumer law and if they don't perhaps this is why in turn they are slow to claim themselves for the faulty products they have purchased from the manufacture.

 

Who cares how expensive it is for the Manufacture or the dealer to replace a faulty caravan, What about the customer and their hard earned cash and expenses incurred by these problem caravans.

 

What is "nip things" Is it to stop a customer from pursuing their consumer rights, Building a product fit for purpose in the first place, would take the "sting out of the situation"

 

Do you honestly think that owners of these problem vans deliberately go out to create all of this hassle. Why don't manufactures just build them right and offer what they advertise. Maybe then everyone will be happy.

Edited by Gaz40
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I can only quote from my own experience. ..

I have taken a factory engineer with me to resolve a problem on site.

I have gone out to a customer, hitched it on and taken it back and had the factory resolve problem in a week.

And I have gone to a customer and agreed with everything, apologised and agreed a replacement through the dealer.

These direct actions are taken to give the customer what he expected from day one, and usually done because of the dealers inability to resolve first time. This inability could have been for a range of reasons leading to customers increasing lack of confidence in dealer.

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the cracks are NOT due to grounding, it is another problem which other owners have reported on this forum.

Check out "Cracks in rear ABS panels"

Edited by smithbuild
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