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JCloughie

Alde Anti-Freeze Changing

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After much planning and research I have now changed the Anti-Freeze in my 2011 Mk 1 Bailey Valencia.

 

I am posting here as I think that what I have learnt is relevant to different caravans and models of Alde heating’ Although my circulation pump is next to the boiler on the return pipe. If yours is in the expansion tank then some rethinking may be required.

 

I tried calling Bailey for advice but they said they would only reply to an email, I then emailed but have not yet got a reply.

 

Choice of anti-freeze: No help at all on Bailey web site, Alde have conflicting information but recommend VW G12 or equivalent. Comma G30 comes up as the VW G12 equivalent, however, in another part of the Alde site it said to use 'Silicated', and the Comma web site say that G40 is Silicated. Hence some confusion.

 

5 litres of G30 at Halfords is £22:99 ( it is cheaper on Amazon but I needed to do mine that day), regardless of if it is ready to use or concentrate. I purchased the concentrate plus 5 litres of distilled water.

 

My worry from the research was the difficulty in refilling and bleeding. Neither of these was a problem. The difficulty is in draining and flushing.

 

At first I removed the drain plug, under floor at the rear. Using bucket to catch old fluid. Then opened the bleed screw on towel rail. I then needed to tip the van up as far as possible in order to get as much as I could from the system.

 

I then refilled, put the pump on top speed and it bled itself with the use of the bleed screw.

 

I then drained again. I thought this was tedious and not fully purging the system or flushing properly, looking at the design of the boiler, there will always by some residue held below the return pipe. see picture.

 

post-46773-0-48191000-1380364238_thumb.png

 

 

I removed the expansion tank and fixed a hose to the side going to the boiler, I found a simple garden spray made a good seal. see picture.

 

post-46773-0-66526300-1380379995_thumb.jpg

 

With a steady flow of water I flushed the system including the boiler for a few minutes.

 

I then replaced the hose with a bellows pump using tape to make a seal, and blew out as much water as I could. See picture.

 

post-46773-0-99135200-1380380053_thumb.jpg

 

Next I replaced the expansion tank and closed the drain.

 

Topping up was easy, just add diluted Anti-Freeze, bleed with rad screw, and then turn on the heating pump at setting 5. After some gurgling, turn it off, top up and bleed at rad, pump back on and repeat.

 

When it seems full turn the heater on and bring up to temperature, after a bit turn the pump down to normal, 2 in my case.

 

I found that I needed another ¾ litre the following morning.

 

This took me about 5 hours but 3 of these were wasted on research. If I need to do it again I think 1 hour would be enough plus time to allow it to settle.

 

PS

 

On the Alde site they say it is best to tip the van up to assist drainage. They admit that this may be a problem for twin axles and suggest finding a slope or using a jack (don’t know where). I think that the bellows pump I suggested above should be a good help in emptying the system as much as possible.

 

Hope this is of help to anyone.

 

John

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I thought they used a 5yr anti freeze so did it need changing ?

 

 

Dave

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I would suggest you need to use a hydrometer or similiar to test the strength of the final anti-freeze solution. There's no telling how much residual water was in the system after flushing with the hose, even after draining and using the bellows to try and pump it out.

 

I used one of these http://www. amazon. co. uk/Hydrometer-Wine-Plastic-Measuring-Cylinder/dp/B0026X1A7G/ref=sr_1_3?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1380389592&sr=1-3&keywords=hydrometer

You can use a basting tube to take a sample from the header tank.

 

You need a specific gravity of at least 1. 06 at room temperature. See http://www. engineeringtoolbox. com/ethylene-glycol-d_146. html

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I thought they used a 5yr anti freeze so did it need changing ?

Dave

No, only 2 year used from new. Not compatible with 5 year type, hence the need to flush. 5 year life Anti-Freeze is little dearer, I think Bailey should use it. Don't know what other manufacturers do.

 

I would suggest you need to use a hydrometer or similiar to test the strength of the final anti-freeze solution. There's no telling how much residual water was in the system after flushing with the hose, even after draining and using the bellows to try and pump it out.

 

I used one of these http://www. amazon. co. uk/Hydrometer-Wine-Plastic-Measuring-Cylinder/dp/B0026X1A7G/ref=sr_1_3?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1380389592&sr=1-3&keywords=hydrometer

You can use a basting tube to take a sample from the header tank.

 

You need a specific gravity of at least 1. 06 at room temperature. See http://www. engineeringtoolbox. com/ethylene-glycol-d_146. html

Makes sense, thanks for that. I don't think there would be much water left, there is some leeway in the ratios, 60:40 for the UK but can put in a Max of 50:50. I am confident I am between those ratios.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if Alde or Bailey etc. Provided that data.

 

John

Edited by JCloughie

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Yeah my U2 Valencia has the 2 year one. The dealer shop stocks the 5 year one but not the 2. I believe it would be bad news to top up the 2 with 5. It's pathetic really: how much more would it cost Bailey to manufacture with the 5 year from the start. Much more useful that useless tellies, trackers and other stuff that I personally don't want. (For those that do want them make em optional extras.)

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This is odd at last years show I am sure I was told it didn't need changing and in any case I would expect it to last the same as in a car around 5 years not 2!!!!

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No, only 2 year used from new. Not compatible with 5 year type, hence the need to flush. 5 year life Anti-Freeze is little dearer, I think Bailey should use it. Don't know what other manufacturers do.

 

Makes sense, thanks for that. I don't think there would be much water left, there is some leeway in the ratios, 60:40 for the UK but can put in a Max of 50:50. I am confident I am between those ratios.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if Alde or Bailey etc. Provided that data.

 

John

Aldi put a thread up on this site and explained that there is now a 5 year abtifreeze that is backwardly compatable with the previous 2 year. They used that on my van recently.

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Aldi or Alde????. Ones a supermarket and the other makes heating systems

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That's an interesting post John, thank you.

 

I wonder how they "tip up" a five tonne motorhome! Park on a fairly steep slope I guess but, you have guessed it, my outlet pipe is in the middle rather than at one end, so I would have to tilt it two directions.

 

Russell

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Hello. Yes, we recommend replacing your fluid with Comma Xstream G40, which meets VAG G12++ spec. We do not recommend VAG G12 spec.

 

The "++" is very important to note.

 

G12++ spec antifreeze contains silicated OAT corrosion inhibitor that is backwards compatible with silicate-containing and non-silicated OAT antifreeze, and offers 5 year protection.

 

Alde branded antifreeze is either G12++ spec, or the later G13 spec. (G13 replaces 20% of the ethylene glycol with glycerin for reduced environment impact, but is otherwise the same. Comma don't currently produce a G13 spec antifreeze so it isn't commonly available in the UK. If it was, we'd to able to recommend G13 instead.)

 

http://www. alde. co. uk/itemdetails. php?itemId=143

 

Comma Xstream G40 is available from Halfords, or you can find your nearest stockist on the Comma website below.

 

http://www. uk. commaoil. com/productsguide/view/6/352

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I use Millers waterless coolant in my old cars, and I'm thinking about it in my new (when I get it!) Lunar. Does Alde recommend it, and if not, why not?

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Sorry to be a bit dense but how did you switch the pump on to full speed or position 5?

Our Valencia just has the control at the door where you switch the heating on to operate the pump.

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I use Millers waterless coolant in my old cars, and I'm thinking about it in my new (when I get it!) Lunar. Does Alde recommend it, and if not, why not?

 

The proprietary formula in this waterless engine coolant, and with it not meeting any automotive industry spec (for example, VAG G12++), means we cannot recommend it per se. In short, we don't know what's in it, so can't guarantee how it will interact with the materials in the Alde system. The technology is promising though, and Alde conducts long term tests (a period of years) on an antifreeze before recommending it.

 

Sorry to be a bit dense but how did you switch the pump on to full speed or position 5?

Our Valencia just has the control at the door where you switch the heating on to operate the pump.

 

The 3010-508 12 V inline circulation pump is a black plastic pump with white fascia and red speed dial.

 

http://www. alde. co. uk/itemdetails. php?itemId=54

 

Speed 5 or bleed speed is "all the way" clockwise. It should only be run on this speed for 10-15 min intervals. As a guideline, nNormal operating speed is 2 in a caravan, 3 in a motorhome.

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While discussing changing anti freeze . Always drain a system completely when changing a antifreeze and if topping any anti freeze always use the same type of antifreeze that is recommended . Do not just choose anti freeze by its colour as the colour has no bearing on what it is as dye is added by manufacturers for in house identification. Mix different anti freezes can congeal and cause blockages.

 

 

Dave

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Lunar Clubman SE with Alde Heating

 

 

I changed the antifreeze today which worked out to be very straight forward. Equipment needed:

5 Litres Comma extreme concentrate G40 … £23 online

8 litres Distilled water…. £5

2 buckets

1 measuring jug

1 Submersible pump plus hose….£ 17 online @ Amazon 12V Mini Submersible Diesel Pump Fuel Water Transfer Pump With 3/4" hose tail connection Max Pressure: 43 psi+2M Hose With 2 clamps for Pump

1 more hose for emptying into second bucket.

 

First I opened drain under caravan and drained off into a bucket then closed drain.

 

Next I removed pump from header tank in the wardrobe and then removed the header tank.

 

I connected the hose from the pump to the left hand pipe and then connected the other hose to the right hand pipe.

post-72061-0-65268400-1428923863_thumb.jpgpost-72061-0-65268400-1428923863_thumb.jpgpost-72061-0-65268400-1428923863_thumb.jpgpost-72061-0-36676000-1428923899_thumb.jpgpost-72061-0-56171200-1428923947_thumb.jpg

 

 

I then put an empty bucket under the right hand pipe with hose fixed into it, and a full bucket of water with the pump in it connected to the left hand pipe both hoses where sealed to the pipes with tape before starting.

 

I had connected the leads from the pump to a 12 volt cigar lighter lead before starting so that I could use the 12v socket in the van.

 

I turned on the pump and flushed the water through until the water from the right hand pipe was clear ( no blue) I had to empty the outlet bucket and fill the inlet bucket more than once note that the pump should not run dry.

 

Next I mixed 6 litres of distilled water with 4 litres of G40

concentrate using a measuring jug and a suitable clean container.

 

I then repeated the process of pumping the G40 mix into the system out of the bucket with the pump in it until the fluid coming out was pink this took another couple of litres of the G40 mix.

 

I then disconnected the hoses from the 2 pipes noticing that the right hand pipe was full to the top with pink liquid so there should be no air in that pipe.

 

Next I cleared everything away i. e. buckets, pump and old towels that I used in case of any spills.

 

Then I reconnected the header tank and poured in some G40 mix to 1 cm above minimum replaced the pump and turned on the heating. As it was running I opened the bleed valve on the radiator in the bathroom until liquid came out then closed it. I left the heating on until both pipes in the wardrobe where getting hot the turned the heating off and left it for a while before checking the header tank which needed topping up I topped it up to 1 cm above minimum again and turned the heating on again until the whole system was hot I tried 2 of the 5 bleed points to test for air but only got liquid so I only needed the one in the bathroom to bleed the small amount of air out.

 

The system holds about 12. 5 litres

The emptying and refilling took about 1 to 2 hours

 

post-72061-0-36811800-1428923898_thumb.jpg

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Very informative method.

I still believe you need to check the strength of the final G40 mix in the system with an hydrometer.

You pumped through a 40% mix until the outflow turned pink. However there would have been a lot of residual water in the system which may have diluted the incoming mix somewhat.

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Davec20

 

Nice and methodical, I can see how the pump makes things easier but I found it not necessary, gravity worked OK, however it would be very advantageous on a TA with less ability to tilt the van back.

 

onewheelonmywagon

 

If you look at the OP I used a foot pump to get the last of the water out of the system. If drained with the van tipped back I doubt there would be much left in to worry about.

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Many thanks to davec20 and John for their descriptions on changing the alde anti-freeze. I renewed mine yesterday and carried out a slightly different method.

 

It took about 20 mins to flush out the old with clean water and then flush out the clean water with new anti-freeze.

 

I used comma G40 as recommended by Alde and I also used de-ionised water.

 

Equipment used was a 12v submersible pump which I attached a cigar lighter plug to it so I could use it in the van.

 

2 lengths of hose.

 

2 25 ltr plastic containers.

 

My header tank does not have the circulation pump in it so I just removed the header tank and fitted a length of hose to the two heating pipes.

 

One hose was placed in an empty container, this was the return pipe to the header tank and the other pipe was connected to the pump and placed in the other container with clean water in.

 

I had to raise the container with the water above the empty container to gain a slight head of water.

 

I then turned on the submersible pump and watched as the blue anti-freeze flowed out and waited until the water coming out was running clear, I then switched off the pump and repeated the process again with a container full of new anti-freeze. When the clean water had flowed out into the barrel I carried on pumping for a while longer to make sure I had the new anti-freez in the system with very little remaining water.

 

I then re-fitted the header tank, topped it up to 1cm above the minimum mark and then ran the heating for an hour.

 

I checked the bleed nipples that would open. I have 4 in my van. 1 under the front near side bunk, this one is seized solid and would not open. 1 on the bathroom radiator. 1 under the kitchen sink and 1 under the near side rear wardrobe. All the nipples ran out fresh pink anti-freeze when opened.

 

It took longer to set everything up than it did to actually do the job.

 

Simple, let the clean water pump out the old anti-freeze and let the new anti-freeze pump out the clean water. I think I got as near a result as what Alde do with their special pump. ..

 

I have some pictures on my gallery of the equipment used etc. I could not attach them to the thread ????

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Can you tell me what size hose you used to attach to the alde pipes. thanks

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Can you tell me what size hose you used to attach to the alde pipes. thanks

Hi I used plastic pipe with an inside diameter 16mm for attaching to the pump and the outside diameter was 22mm. I wrapped some insulating tape around the pipe and then used the 22mm rubber header tank hose and made sure it was tight on the hose and used the hose clips that were on the header tank. Just for piece of mind I then used insulating tape between the rubber hose and plastic tube. I hope this helps. PS not a drop got passed. Its also not under any great pressure.

Check out my gallery pictures.

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I've just changed my the HTF fluid in my Lunar Clubman. ..I had trouble finding the Comma G40 but found that my local Eurocarparts store stocked Triple QX G13 spec antifreeze. I checked with Alde & they were happy to recommend this one as well as the Comma G40. ..it cost me £3 per litre for the anifreeze (I use 6l) & about £8 for 10L of deionised water.

 

I used a submersible pump as per the previous poster & it all worked very well indeed. ..pushed out the old blue stuff with clean water & then ran a few more litres through it to flush the system. ....then mixed up 6L of antifreeze & 6L of de-ionised water & pushed out the water with the antifreeze mix. ...

 

I think I might still have a little bit of air in the towel radiator but I think this will shift soon.

 

Even if you are only halfway competent at DIY this is a pretty simple procedure & will save ££££££s over getting the dealer to do it. ..

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I know this thread is a year old but had a shock yesterday when I got a quote from my dealer to change the fluid to 5 year antifreeze, £230 I have worked out I can complete for just under £50

So finding this thread has given me the confidence to give it a go, all the equipment will cost me around £10 as I have a spare 12v pump I can use.

So the sticking point is the comma g40, it states pre mixed, but I then read mixing it with dionised water, if it's already premixed should it not go in neat??, I don't want to get it wrong!! So thought I'd ask before tackling the task

 

Thanks

Kev

 

 

Lunar Clubman SE with Alde Heating

 

I changed the antifreeze today which worked out to be very straight forward. Equipment needed:

5 Litres Comma extreme concentrate G40 £23 online

8 litres Distilled water. £5

2 buckets

1 measuring jug

 

1 Submersible pump plus hose.£ 17 online @ Amazon 12V Mini Submersible Diesel Pump Fuel Water Transfer Pump With 3/4" hose tail connection Max Pressure: 43 psi+2M Hose With 2 clamps for Pump

1 more hose for emptying into second bucket.

 

First I opened drain under caravan and drained off into a bucket then closed drain.

 

Next I removed pump from header tank in the wardrobe and then removed the header tank.

 

I connected the hose from the pump to the left hand pipe and then connected the other hose to the right hand pipe.

attachicon.gifP1060032. JPGattachicon.gifP1060032. JPGattachicon.gifP1060032. JPGattachicon.gifexpantion tank. jpgattachicon.gifP1060034. JPG

 

 

I then put an empty bucket under the right hand pipe with hose fixed into it, and a full bucket of water with the pump in it connected to the left hand pipe both hoses where sealed to the pipes with tape before starting.

 

I had connected the leads from the pump to a 12 volt cigar lighter lead before starting so that I could use the 12v socket in the van.

 

I turned on the pump and flushed the water through until the water from the right hand pipe was clear ( no blue) I had to empty the outlet bucket and fill the inlet bucket more than once note that the pump should not run dry.

 

Next I mixed 6 litres of distilled water with 4 litres of G40

concentrate using a measuring jug and a suitable clean container.

 

I then repeated the process of pumping the G40 mix into the system out of the bucket with the pump in it until the fluid coming out was pink this took another couple of litres of the G40 mix.

 

I then disconnected the hoses from the 2 pipes noticing that the right hand pipe was full to the top with pink liquid so there should be no air in that pipe.

 

Next I cleared everything away i. e. buckets, pump and old towels that I used in case of any spills.

 

Then I reconnected the header tank and poured in some G40 mix to 1 cm above minimum replaced the pump and turned on the heating. As it was running I opened the bleed valve on the radiator in the bathroom until liquid came out then closed it. I left the heating on until both pipes in the wardrobe where getting hot the turned the heating off and left it for a while before checking the header tank which needed topping up I topped it up to 1 cm above minimum again and turned the heating on again until the whole system was hot I tried 2 of the 5 bleed points to test for air but only got liquid so I only needed the one in the bathroom to bleed the small amount of air out.

 

The system holds about 12. 5 litres

The emptying and refilling took about 1 to 2 hours

Edited by Kevin H

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The thread you have shown says concentrate - '5 Litres Comma extreme concentrate G40 £23 online' When I bought from Halfords for topping up I used the same and diluted 50/50

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I see that this topic has morphed since I started it and there are lots of variations. The important thing to me is that no one has found any problems, in fact it's an easy job.

 

I see some are favouring the use of a submersible pump. I had no problem without one just tipping the van and letting gravity do its stuff. Also using mains water to flush through worked well.

 

When I did my Bailey it had an in line pump. My Lunar has the header tank pump. Thinking about it I don't think it will make any difference to how I will do the job. In the Bailey I used the pump to assist draining. Clearly this will not be possible but as there is no in line pump to cause a restriction gravity will do the job fine.

 

John

Edited by JCloughie
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Yep understand now, it's antifreeze and coolant premixed which needs diluting with deionised water, next weekend it is then 😀

 

Thanks

Kev

 

The thread you have shown says concentrate - '5 Litres Comma extreme concentrate G40 £23 online' When I bought from Halfords for topping up I used the same and diluted 50/50

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