Guest mr_sheens Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 just to let you all into a secret. truma are going into business with bp for gas. truma are so miffed about the problem with their regulators packing up because of the oil contaminates in calor, there uncooperativeness in the matter, and the monopoly they have, they are going into business with bp for gas. they will have new see-through bottles, so no more guessing how much gas you have left. the bottle will be made of a extremely tough plastic, so it should help with nose weights. one manufacturer is already looking at using them and they will be available at all the usual calor outlets. but SSSSHHHH, i didnt tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 These cylinders are just like the one I have that is refillable! Excellent news, well done Truma and BP. All you got to do now is make them cheap enough for me to switch back Martin W Discovery D3 HSE + Coachman VIP 575/4 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuBob Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 are we talking about the butane or propane (or both?) in the new bottles, are the current regulators going to be OK with the new bottles ? "its not the space in your Caravan, it's the space your Caravan is in, that counts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank.A Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 The obvious advantages of weight and contents visibility is great but on the down side I am not sure about 6kgs of LPG in a plastic bottle. I would have thought that this would be a possible safety issue in a road accident. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Um. ...it's a link to a thread in another forum (T&T). Yep, must remember to make booking for optitician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr_sheens Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 i have been told it will be propane, and the bottles meet all the safety standards. i already asked these questions myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rallier Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 This is what the new cylinder looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 just to let you all into a secret. truma are going into business with bp for gas. truma are so miffed about the problem with their regulators packing up because of the oil contaminates in calor, there uncooperativeness in the matter, and the monopoly they have, they are going into business with bp for gas. they will have new see-through bottles, so no more guessing how much gas you have left. the bottle will be made of a extremely tough plastic, so it should help with nose weights. one manufacturer is already looking at using them and they will be available at all the usual calor outlets. but SSSSHHHH, i didnt tell you. Presumably BP will start letting us refill bottles at the pumps then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr_sheens Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 at this point there is no plans for them to be re-fillable. they will be exchange like calor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Found useful information on these bottles at www. bp. com. Web site says the bottles meet all safety european requirements. Has any one got any idea if the bottles be accepted for transporting through the channel tunnel??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carabiker Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 just to let you all into a secret. truma are going into business with bp for gas. truma are so miffed about the problem with their regulators packing up because of the oil contaminates in calor, there uncooperativeness in the matter, and the monopoly they have, they are going into business with bp for gas. they will have new see-through bottles, so no more guessing how much gas you have left. the bottle will be made of a extremely tough plastic, so it should help with nose weights. one manufacturer is already looking at using them and they will be available at all the usual calor outlets. but SSSSHHHH, i didnt tell you. Hi All Here is the link for the BP web site after a quick look it appears that they will provide more info in April link:-http://www. bp. com/modularhome. do?categoryId=4060&contentId=7001891 Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 just to let you all into a secret. truma are going into business with bp for gas. truma are so miffed about the problem with their regulators packing up because of the oil contaminates in calor, there uncooperativeness in the matter, and the monopoly they have, they are going into business with bp for gas. they will have new see-through bottles, so no more guessing how much gas you have left. the bottle will be made of a extremely tough plastic, so it should help with nose weights. one manufacturer is already looking at using them and they will be available at all the usual calor outlets. but SSSSHHHH, i didnt tell you. hi,all i saw these bottles at the trade show in cologne last year, the guy i was with, (not a caravanner) couldnt understand what was so exciting about a gas bottle i could lift to shoulder height with one hand! both salesmen on the stand were very busy, so i took a leaflet, expecting to see rave reviews in the caravan magazines, but nothing appeared, i thought they probably didnt comply, having handled one i can say it is a substantial piece of kit, the bottle itself appears to be made out of some kind of polyresin, opaque, not completely clear, and i think once people get the chance to handle one, a lot of worries about safety will disapear, if they are going head to head with calor, i beleive the bp will become the prefered choice of most people, providing they pitch the price sensibly, nice pickup mr sheen, let us know when they are in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mr_sheens Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 i believe they will be out to buy in april and will be priced to push calor`s nose out a bit. bp and truma are going to build up a network of dealers and suppliers as well, so you shouldnt have a problem exchanging your refill. what you have to remember is this network will take some time to build up, but anyone big like bp going into direct competition with calor has got to be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljac Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 This sounds like a break through and if BP are involved it COULD be some much needed competition in the LPG market . . But i wonder /I remember bringing this topic of Calors monopoly to the forum before, as i said then when you are touring, how do you get gas if you dont use Calor??? I have never seen any other gas stocked on a site /be it comercial or any of the 2 clubs sites most caravan dealers suply only Calor. . I believe that a cartel is operated by Calor and the 2 clubs to ensure a very cosy profitable relationship. BP will have to break the monopoly that Calor have with the 2 clubs if they are to succeed. Coljac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Plastic cyinders, sounds like a receipe for a large explosion to me, i will stick with the devil i know for now. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb1701 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I use two makes of propane in my van (or two different suppliers) calor 6kg cylinder, so if it runs out most sites can exchange it for us and a 5kg shell gas which i get from the supplier from work so can claim it cheaper than paying for calor, i wonder if calor will take a long hard think about its current bottles and graduly phase out its heavy weights for a similar design as bp are going for ? Coachman Genius & Mazda BT50 TS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 The actual gas containing cylinders are made from Kevlar folks with a plastic casing around (the coloured bit!) - immensely strong and light, hence they are pressure tested to more than that of steel cylinders (I think!). Martin W Discovery D3 HSE + Coachman VIP 575/4 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyT Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Plastic cyinders, sounds like a receipe for a large explosion to me, i will stick with the devil i know for now. Rod We have exchanged all of our steel breathing apparatus cylinders for lighter 'carbon fibre/plastic' ones. We were unsure as to how good they would be, and had a few doubts. They are lighter and more durable than the steel ones and used by the fire service. For any manufacturer to get something changed it has to either meet or be better than the current standard. BP would not put themselves (or others) at risk if they thought there would be isssues. Most faliures on cyclinders are on the connection at the neck. The cylinder does not explode, but filling joint fails. This then expells the heated contents and turns the cylinder into a rather large projectile, just like a bullet. Have seen the video!! For this to happen in you caravan, most of it will have been burnt away before there would be any issues with the cylinder!! Regards Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hobbybod Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I saw these 'plastic' BP gas bottles in the front locker of a Bailey at the NEC; didn't seem to fit very well in all honesty, as they appear to be taller than Calor steel ones. I've also seen them for sale at a large Belgian dealer's in Poperinge; ~100€ IIRC. As has been mentioned they are much lighter than equivalent steel ones, and the level of liquid 'gas' can be seen through the translucent plastic. Safety-wise they've had to go through all the stringent European testing and, AFAIK, are much less liable to lead to catastrophic explosions. Mr December has posted something on this before. The problem of using such 'see-through' cylinders as 're-fillable' seems to be down to the lack of provision of a saftey relief valve; deemed unnecessary by some as the liquid level can be seen, but this does rely on the filler not to overfill the cylinder visually, instead of automatically limiting it to 80% as done by the relief valve. I take Gary's point about Truma having to introduce such gas/cylinders due to the inability of their new regulators being able to cope with Calor's 'dirty' gas, but it's an 'ill wind' and all that. The more competition the better and hopefully Calor will have to respond, . . . . competetively!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY_H Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Further to TrickyTs' comment, I use a plastic (Kevlar) cylinder to refill my air-rifles which is rated at 300bar which is something over 4000psi in old money. Thats considerably more than butane or propane reaches. If the design is right its no less safe than the old steel stuff (probably safer, if you drop it on your toe!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justlizz Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I have the orange refillable gas bottles and they do have a safety valve if they are over filled I know my daughter overfilled one slightly and as it got a bit warm it expelled some gas they are great I would not go back to the heavy metal ones I have seen the damage the metal ones do in a fire and they can travel for miles The refillable ones are expensive and if you dont use a lot of gas it is not worth it unless it is a weight issue but we use them all the time for work and home so it pays we spent 2 weeks in France after Christmas we went with a full bottle and we used it a lot as it was freezing and we never used half a bottle cost wise for gas under £8 for 20litres and we have the correct adaptor to fill up in France if we need to but so far never needed to lizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I have the orange refillable gas bottles and they do have a safety valve if they are over filled I know my daughter overfilled one slightly and as it got a bit warm it expelled some gasVenting flamable gas to the atmosphere doesn't strike me as being the best solution. Probably better not to overfill a cylinder in the first place. they are great I would not go back to the heavy metal ones I have seen the damage the metal ones do in a fire and they can travel for milesSadly so, but so will the plastic/resin/kevlar ones if in a fire. All gas cylinders should be treated with respectThe refillable ones are expensive and if you dont use a lot of gas it is not worth it unless it is a weight issue but we use them all the time for work and home so it pays we spent 2 weeks in France after Christmas we went with a full bottle and we used it a lot as it was freezing and we never used half a bottle cost wise for gas under £8 for 20litres and we have the correct adaptor to fill up in France if we need to but so far never needed to. lizz I agree it is expensive to set up, but if you use a large quantity of gas there are economic arguments for using some form of refillable cylinder. Also I can see the weight advantages of a non metallic cylinder, but personally I still have reservations over the safety checking procedure for these cylinders. That's not to say they are inherantly unsafe, it's just that currently the owner has to initiate a safety check, whereas with a pre-filled (exchange) cylinder this is the responsibility of the gas supplier. Gordon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuBob Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I have the orange refillable gas bottles and they do have a safety valve if they are over filled I know my daughter overfilled one slightly and as it got a bit warm it expelled some gas they are great I would not go back to the heavy metal ones I have seen the damage the metal ones do in a fire and they can travel for miles The refillable ones are expensive and if you dont use a lot of gas it is not worth it unless it is a weight issue but we use them all the time for work and home so it pays we spent 2 weeks in France after Christmas we went with a full bottle and we used it a lot as it was freezing and we never used half a bottle cost wise for gas under £8 for 20litres and we have the correct adaptor to fill up in France if we need to but so far never needed to lizz I've seen mention of this before (re-filling) I always presumed that 'ordinary individuals' wouldn't be allowed to re-fill bottles - how is it done ? "its not the space in your Caravan, it's the space your Caravan is in, that counts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justlizz Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 We fill them up at the car Auto gas lizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Hi Liz, I don't know if Calor's policy has changed but this was the situation as published 01 September 2004 at http://www. forecourttrader. co. uk . Calor, the UK's largest supplier of LPG, is advising all stockists that supply autogas not to refill user-owned, portable LPG cylinders. The move follows advice from the Liquefied Petroleum Gas Association (LPGA) against refilling user-owned, portable LPG cylinders. The LPGA said safe filling of LPG cylinders required appropriate expertise and/or equipment. "Staff at autogas filling points cannot fulfill statutory obligations as they have neither. Were there to be any accident the site operator could be liable to prosecution." The advice does not affect tanks permanently attached, such as to a camper van. See also an article towards the bottom of this page where the situation ramains rather unclear. Gordon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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