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Wrong Max Towing Weight On Vehicle Reg Document?


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Just to clarify, my manual does not state that the towing limit reduces if additional loads are added to the car's MRO/Kerbweight.

 

This is what it does state:

 

"The permissible trailer loads are vehicle and engine-dependent maximum values which must not be exceeded. The actual trailer load is the difference between the actual gross weight of the trailer and the actual coupling socket load with the trailer coupled."

 

"The permissible trailer loads are specified in the vehicle documents (so in my case 1150Kg on the V5, plus an extra 75Kg of nose weight when coupled.) In general they are valid for gradients of up to max. 12%...up to an altitude of 1000M above sea level. .......since engine power decreases as altitude increases. ......the permissible gross train weight decreases by 10% for every 1000M of additional altitude."

 

I do wish my manual included what my friend has in the manual for his Peugeot estate. This permits 100kg more of trailer load than the plated difference between GVW and GTW provided that the GVW is underloaded by the same 100Kg amount. That seems like a far more sensible approach to towing weights. As far as I can make out, these max towing weights are based on what weight can be pulled 5 times up a 12% gradient from standing with a maximally laden vehicle.

Please read the small print on page 12 under the specifications on the Zafira where it clearly states ". Any extra weight, such as luggage or additional passengers, should be deducted from the maximum towing weight." I hope that clarifies the discussion on the maximum towing weight of the car which also then makes a mockery of the towing weight on the V5?

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Those VIN plate figures confirm you can tow up to 1225kg even with a fully loaded vehicle.   The trailer weight does not come into the "gross vehicle weight", so I cant follow your point on confus

My V5 has nothing next to the towing weight. No figure at all not even a zero. Having checked with the DVLA they say it's the vin plate you need to go by. Having also checked with the manufacturer the

I have seen that Vauxhall offer a full size spare for the Insignia but Opel don't because the German market won't accept the accompanying reduction in boot space. Even the space saver is an on-cost option for the Opel

 

I said I thought it was strange, but the full size spare is available for the Opel Insignia if you follow the configuration through to options, safety / security the full size spare is available at 195 euros so if it is not in Germany it's available from Opel

http://www. opel. ie/vehicles/opel_range/cars/insignia-saloon/configurator. html?carline=0J&bodystyle=0J+69&series=0JTE&package_version=0JT69++MEFE&startNewSession=true#options

Edited by dave11a
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I said I thought it was strange, but the full size spare is available for the Opel Insignia if you follow the configuration through to options, safety / security the full size spare is available at 195 euros so if it is not in Germany it's available from Opel

http://www. opel. ie/vehicles/opel_range/cars/insignia-saloon/configurator. html?carline=0J&bodystyle=0J+69&series=0JTE&package_version=0JT69++MEFE&startNewSession=true#options

 

As Vauxhall and Opel models are identical except for the badge, it's not surprising that Opel offer a full size spare in the Irish market referred to above, but they don't for the German market because German owners value the extra boot space more than having a full size spare.

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Please read the small print on page 12 under the specifications on the Zafira where it clearly states ". Any extra weight, such as luggage or additional passengers, should be deducted from the maximum towing weight." I hope that clarifies the discussion on the maximum towing weight of the car which also then makes a mockery of the towing weight on the V5?

 

Thanks for the link, Surf01.

 

That one is for the old model Zafira but I added "Tourer" to the URL and found this one for my car:

 

http://www. vauxhall. co. uk/bypass/download/gb/ZafiraTourerPriceGuide. pdf

 

This guide gives a max towing figure 1200Kg for my ecoflex S/S engine so I can't understand why my V5 states 1150Kg and the door's plated difference between GVW and GTW is 1225Kg to take in to account nose weight. My manual also makes no mention of the extra passenger and luggage issue which, if I hadn't seen this price guide, I would be none the wiser about.

 

Vauxhall really need to sort themselves out over all this confliucting and confuising information they're putting out. As you say, any figure on the V5 is meaningless if some manufacturers say you can go "over" if you underload the car and others say you have to go "under" if you add passengers/luggage. Also, the V5 figure doesn't stipulate that this is at sea level either!

 

The more I read in to it the more I see this whole max towing weight thing as being a complete joke. I'm sure any defence lawyer would have an absolute field day with it.

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Yes, Vauxhall really do need to get things sorted out. When I read, quote: "Any extra weight, such as luggage or additional passengers, should be deducted from the maximum towing weight." I ask myself extra over what? Such a statement only makes limited sense in the odd case where the maximum permissible towload exceeds the difference between GTW and GVW. In those cases the towload is indeed reduced if full use is made of the GVW. But those are exceptions.

It seems that Vauxhall have been carrying over the above statement from one model to the next without giving the matter any thought whether it is always applicable.

Is your Zafira a 7 seater? If so, yes, the 1200kg limit also shows up in the equivalent Opel data. (The 1400kg limit that I had mentioned earlier applies to the 5 seater)

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Despite what Vauxhall have told me as detailed on about page 3 of this thread I think they have documented the towing weight of my car incorrectly on the V5 (as 1150Kg) and the door plate (as a 1225Kg difference between GTW and GVW to take in to account the transferred coupling weight.)

 

If you look on this page you can get historical brochures and price lists, depending upon which link you click:

 

https://www. vauxhallfleet. co. uk/historicaldata

 

In the brochure section, the very first brochure for the Zafira Tourer from October 2011 quotes a 1300Kg towing weight figure for the 2. 0CDTi ecoflex stop/start. The next brochure from Feb 2012 reduces this to 1150Kg which is what I have on my V5. The brochure after this one doesn't include technical data for towing because, I think, of the following. ....

 

If you click on the other link a bit further down the left to look at the individual car price guides there are around nine of them dated from October 2012 all the way up to may 2013. Every one of them gives a towing weight figure of 1200Kg. As Lutz says the nose weight figure can be added to this "documented" figure for max towing weight because the car takes that weight.

 

What I think Vauxhall have done here is initially advertised an incorrect 1300Kg towing figure when the car first came out. They have them over compensated for this by giving an 1150Kg figure before finally making it right at 1200Kg in the individual price guides. If my car has in fact been V5d and stamped incorrectly (at 1150Kg V5 and 1225Kg door plated difference) then I am losing out by the 50Kg I need to tow up to my 1273Kg MPTLM (uncoupled) or 1198Kg (coupled.)

 

Do I have ground for seeking clarification from Vauxhall and getting the V5 amended and the car door plated?


 

Is your Zafira a 7 seater? If so, yes, the 1200kg limit also shows up in the equivalent Opel data. (The 1400kg limit that I had mentioned earlier applies to the 5 seater)

 

Mine's the 7-seater. I don't think they sell 5-seater Tourers in the UK.

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Having just read your last reply I think I am beginning to see the light. It is quite conceivable that the towload limits were revised since the introduction of the model. Maybe the car was retested after it went into production and the engineers determined that slight adjustments were to be made to the towload specification. Or it is equally possible that a related design change was carried out at some stage during the model run and this required redefinition of the towload limits. In either case, the information in the V5c is out of date and the plated data is what applied at the time your car was built.

Unfortunately, now that I've retired I am no longer in contact with the respective development engineer at Opel where the car was built, so I am unable confirm my supposition.

Seeking clarification with Vauxhall and/or the DVLA is undoubtedly justified.

Edited by Lutz
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Having just read your last reply I think I am beginning to see the light. It is quite conceivable that the towload limits were revised since the introduction of the model. Maybe the car was retested after it went into production and the engineers determined that slight adjustments were to be made to the towload specification. Or it is equally possible that a related design change was carried out at some stage during the model run and this required redefinition of the towload limits. In either case, the information in the V5c is out of date and the plated data is what applied at the time your car was built.

Unfortunately, now that I've retired I am no longer in contact with the respective development engineer at Opel where the car was built, so I am unable confirm my supposition.

Seeking clarification with Vauxhall and/or the DVLA is undoubtedly justified.

 

What I think, Lutz is that the first 1300Kg figure was wrong because the non-ecoflex engine of the same BHP is the same 1300Kg figure. One they realised that it should be reduced because of the ecoflex engine then they reduced it by 150Kg. They may then have realised that this was too much by 50Kg so put it up to 1200Kg.

 

Who would be the person (in terms of job title) at Vauxhall UK that I try to get hold of? Would there be a UK-based development engineer or somebody who deals with type approval issues?????

 

Where are all the Zafira Tourers built?

Edited by Caravanarfa
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Who would be the person (in terms of job title) at Vauxhall UK that I try to get hold of? Would there be a UK-based development engineer or somebody who deals with type approval issues?????

 

Where are all the Zafira Tourers built?

 

I don't know who, if anyone, at Vauxhall is responsible for maintaining contact between the company and UK type approval authorities, or whether this is done directly between Opel and them. In view of the fact that the details on the vehicle plate are likely to be right and those on the V5c wrong it may even be wise to contact the DVLA first.

 

Zafira Tourers are currently built in the Bochum plant in Germany which is shutting down in 2014. Production will then move to Rüsselsheim.

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Thanks for the link, Surf01.

 

That one is for the old model Zafira but I added "Tourer" to the URL and found this one for my car:

 

http://www. vauxhall. co. uk/bypass/download/gb/ZafiraTourerPriceGuide. pdf

 

Not sure why you think it is for the old model as that is the current brochure as per the link on their website? We almost bought the Antara and were waiting on clarification from Vauxhall HQ regarding the towing weight and they confirmed what the brochure stated, but I suspect it was just some numpty reading from the brochure. As it turned out the figures on the whattowcar website were way out so we could not have the Antara anyway.

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  • 4 months later...

OP calling in.

 

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I just wanted to report on the final conclusion to all this. As a result of another thread I posted asking members to post their V5 towing weights, manufacturer nose weights and differences between GTW and GVW on the VIN plate I realised that some discrepancies with V5 figures were happening out there.

 

Anyway, Vauxhall confirmed to me in writing that the V5 figure for max towing weight should be 1225Kg and not 1150Kg as was originally stated. Therefore I sent this evidence to the DVLA with an explanatory note and my old V5 and, eight weeks later, got a new one back with a 1225Kg towing weight on it. My vehicle manual says that the actual trailer load I can pull is the difference between the gross weight of the trailer and the coupling load (max 75Kg) so I can pull an uncoupled maximum weight of up to 1300Kg. Therefore my 1287Kg MPTLM Orion is now fine to tow according to the manufacturer's instructions, since its actual weight when coupled would be no more than 1212Kg (assuming that a 75Kg nose weight is applied to the tow bar.)

 

I'll be getting my tow bar sorted in the new year ready for the 2014 season. Happy days!

 

Thank you for all your responses on this thread and the other.

Edited by Caravanarfa
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  • 6 years later...

Hi all I'm new to all this, I have a caravan that the mtplm is 1100 and have a 1.6 diesel cdti hyundai i30 2015 plate I was told by the garage I bought it from also a website states these cars mtplm is 1500 however on the logbook says 0 next to the towing limit should I check if this is correct as I've towed a caravan that was 1200 kg with this vehicle and it tows effortlessly thankyou in advance

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Check the VIN plate on the car, there will be two weights, one probably just under 2000kgs which is your cars maximum gross weight (ie the maximum weight your car can be) and another weight which is higher (possibly around 3300kgs) which is the maximum train weight (maximum weight of car and caravan together).  Subtracting these gives your maximum towing weight.  IF both weights are the same the car is not type approved for towing.

 

Logbook/V5 errors are known and can be amended with a manufacturers letter (I had this problem with my Volvo).

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If the figures on the VIN plate differ from registration document it is difficult to be sure which one applies. I would think you would need a good legal opinion on that one but presumably if you were stopped the inspectors would check the VIN plate rather than use their computers to see what the document says but you cannot be sure.

If they are different I doubt that they would spend money on a court case based on the lower figure s they have enough cast iron cases for them not to need difficult ones.

I think you do need the official line from Vauxhall as that would supercede anything else, but there is a risk it might be the lower figure so there is a risk there.

The web sites quoting weights are not any use at law so I am afraid that you must use official figures and they can be wrong, the CAMH one is certainly that with ours.

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It's been discussed before, the VIN plate is the one that has the legal standing, the V5 is simply an advice document.  When I had mine changed I had to send a covering letter in from Volvo customer services stating what it should be and DVLA changed it, issuing a new V5 very quickly.  Apparently it's more common than you'd think.

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My V5 has nothing next to the towing weight. No figure at all not even a zero. Having checked with the DVLA they say it's the vin plate you need to go by. Having also checked with the manufacturer they confirm that the towing weight for my vehicle is the same as the calculation from the vin so I've just left it. The V5 is not always accurate

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I have a feeling it's the vin plate you need to go by..........

A seemingly problem free 2010 model Adria Altea 542dk that has more than its fair share of use.

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5 hours ago, Danuk said:

My V5 has nothing next to the towing weight. No figure at all not even a zero. Having checked with the DVLA they say it's the vin plate you need to go by. Having also checked with the manufacturer they confirm that the towing weight for my vehicle is the same as the calculation from the vin so I've just left it. The V5 is not always accurate

 

11 minutes ago, clairendave said:

I have a feeling it's the vin plate you need to go by..........

The towing limit has no legal standing, it is the MAM and GTW on the plate that matter. For most cars the towing limit is the difference between them, however some use a higher figure BUT to take advantage of the higher figure you cannot use the full MAM of the car.

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My post was a joke as quite a few posts above it say basically the same thing. 

A seemingly problem free 2010 model Adria Altea 542dk that has more than its fair share of use.

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