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My 2005 Lunar Delta has the gas regulator preinstalled in the incoming supply in the front locker which is fine for 6Kg cylinders but I want to use a 13Kg cylinder located outside the van, however I've been unable to locate anywhere that sells a pigtail longer than the the standard length, has anyone any suggestions or experience of the problem?

 

Regards

 

<_<

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My 2005 Lunar Delta has the gas regulator preinstalled in the incoming supply in the front locker which is fine for 6Kg cylinders but I want to use a 13Kg cylinder located outside the van, however I've been unable to locate anywhere that sells a pigtail longer than the the standard length, has anyone any suggestions or experience of the problem?

 

Regards

 

<_<

49815[/snapback]

Hi,

 

south yorkshire caravans at Bawtry nr Doncaster sell 1. 5m pigtails if this helps,

 

 

they may post to you, if required

 

 

cheers

 

mark

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Perhaps I shouldn't be suggesting this. :rolleyes:;)

 

Can you feed gas in through a normal regulator, propane or butane, into the Bar-B-Que outlet on the side of the van. That's how I use the 13Kg bottle on my Bailey.

 

It is possible that the latest BBQ outlets have a one way valve to stop you doing this.

 

I expect this post will get some adverse reaction!!

 

Bob R

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Perhaps I shouldn't be suggesting this.    :rolleyes:   ;)

 

Can you feed gas in through a normal regulator, propane or butane, into the Bar-B-Que outlet on the side of the van. That's how I use the 13Kg bottle on my Bailey.

 

It is possible that the latest BBQ outlets have a one way valve to stop you doing this.

 

I expect this post will get some adverse reaction!!

 

Bob R

49905[/snapback]

You are so right!!!

 

Please don't do this - it just has to be dangerous doesn't it???? Back me up someone professional :(:blink:

 

Martin W

Discovery D3 HSE + Coachman VIP 575/4 2016

www.pennplanning.co.uk

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Hi Wonky

Using a regulator on the top of the bottle is only like we used to do before the EU bought in all these rules.

 

In my van I can isolate with the built in gas valves, either of the "Inlets". Being sure to turn off the normal pigtail inlet when using the BBQ inlet.

 

Anyway, I stand corrected and withdraw the suggestion, but I bet more than a few people do this. I know of many in our club who do, to save having to buy gas at the most expensive rate in 6Kg bottles.

 

Bob R

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All gas appliances used in new caravans will be designed to be used at the new pressure, you can't go back to the old pressure (old type gauges)

I would have thought this is one exceptionally dangerous way to get around a longer pigtail.

(this is one of the reasons that I bought a new van so late in the year with the old type system just as they were changing, it was the last in the showroom)

 

don't now the legal side of this, just a common sense approach,

 

Mr Sheens will no doubt be able to tell more :)

Paul B

. .......Mondeo Estate & Elddis Avanté 505 (Tobago)

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Perhaps I shouldn't be suggesting this.   :rolleyes:  ;)

 

Can you feed gas in through a normal regulator, propane or butane, into the Bar-B-Que outlet on the side of the van. That's how I use the 13Kg bottle on my Bailey.

 

It is possible that the latest BBQ outlets have a one way valve to stop you doing this.

 

I expect this post will get some adverse reaction!!

 

Bob R

49905[/snapback]

 

Be aware that it is not permissable to use a gas bottle outside of a caravan on a C&CC site (not sure about CC). Gas bottles ARE to be contained within the dedicated locker only.

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My 2005 Lunar Delta has the gas regulator preinstalled in the incoming supply in the front locker which is fine for 6Kg cylinders but I want to use a 13Kg cylinder located outside the van, however I've been unable to locate anywhere that sells a pigtail longer than the the standard length, has anyone any suggestions or experience of the problem?

 

Regards

 

<_<

49815[/snapback]

Mark & Jane are correct, use a 1. 5 pigtail which is 100% legal and perfect it is the longest permissable pigtail. What ever you do, DO NOT USE THE BBQ POINT. There is no valid reason which is detrimental to using a gas bottle outside the Caravan, people have been doing this for the last 40 years that I know of and if the C&CC club have stopped this proceedure then I will not renew my membership and at least seven of my colleagues will also cease to renew. I will go to whomever does not object as there has been no reported incidents for over 40 years that I am aware of, only in some peoples minds.

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There has been a previous thread which also highlighted that the BBQ point must not be used as the old regulators do not supply the gas at the correct pressure for the equipment in the new vans. That is why they are starting to fit one way valves on these connections.

 

My worry, with those using the larger bottles, is that they cannot be carried upright nor often in a properly vented area. Often they seem to be carried hoizontally and in the car and this is EXTREMELY dangerous.

 

I would rather spend a bit more on my gas than take that risk.

 

Roger

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Thanks to all who responded. As an ex gas engineer I'm only too aware of the problems and safety issues associated with incorrect pressure and the use of the pressure regulators, which is why I was trying to locate a longer than standard pigtail rather than attempt an ad hoc arrangement. I'm grateful for the information on the 1. 5m pigtail which will solve my problem at a stroke, hopefully South Yorkshire Caravans will have one in stock as none of the dealers around here either have or can locate one, once again many thanks.

 

Happy hauling

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The only reason I can see for not using the barbeque point (on the older system) is that the gas point has a quick release mechanism - it is very easy to disconnect the pipes and ordinarily this would not be a problem. With the bottle and regulator on the outside the gas will continue to come out of the detached connection when it is disconnected.

As for bottles outsde of the van - there is a real danger of water getting into the regulator and stopping it from working. Unfortunately the regulator will not "fail safe" - it will supply gas to the van at high pressure which will cause huge problems, especially if something is in use at the time. This has been recently documented in the C&CC magazine where a member used bottle gas to supply his kitchen at home. The regulator failed and he found the kitchen full of gas where it had blown the seals.

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Try www. gaslow. co. uk for longer pigtails.

 

I use one on a 13kg Propane bottle on my 2005 Abbey GTS Vogue. Drilled a hole in the locker floor and fed through the pipe although the 1. 5m max length available means you have to position the bottle in the correct position to ensure you do not catch the front locker panel when it is opened. Don't use the bbq point on any account . Hope this helps

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My 2005 Lunar Delta has the gas regulator preinstalled in the incoming supply in the front locker which is fine for 6Kg cylinders but I want to use a 13Kg cylinder located outside the van, however I've been unable to locate anywhere that sells a pigtail longer than the the standard length, has anyone any suggestions or experience of the problem?

 

Regards

 

<_<

49815[/snapback]

Hi, I have located the manufacturer of the 1. 5 metre official gas hose that is made and does conform to all BS Specifications. I got mine direct from "Gaslow International Tel:01509 - 843331 if you tell them you are having difficulty getting one they will gladly deal direct. They will also explain the unecessary continious drummed up thoughts that are created for no reason at all. I always use 13kg propane not only for the fact that it is horendously cheaper but more to the point, it is horendously far safer!!!!! If you stop to think for one second, if a gas bottle in a gas locker develops a leak for what ever reason, fracture, valve not secured properly in the bottle, in a compact space with the locker door closed, just think of the consequences of the gas which would seep into your caravan whilst you are asleep, it doesn't bear thinking about, still the people concerned would never know, but is that any consolation? whilst if the gas bottle is outside and a leak develop your choice as to which is considered safer, I know where I'm keeping my bottle and if I cannot have it outside then there are plenty of sites that will not object.

 

Finally, RogernN says that larger bottles cannot be carried upright, This is not a true statement. Many caravanners have 4 x 4's and I can assure RogerN that there is no problem in standing bottles up whatsoever, and before anyone asks, yes, I do have not one but two stickers on the rear of my 4 x 4 advising that I am carrying gas cylinders. (I put them on only when gas cylinders are present)

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Hi, I have located the manufacturer of the 1. 5 metre official gas hose that is made and does conform to all BS Specifications. I got mine direct from "Gaslow International Tel:01509 - 843331 if you tell them you are having difficulty getting one they will gladly deal direct. They will also explain the unecessary continious drummed up thoughts that are created for no reason at all. I always use 13kg propane not only for the fact that it is horendously cheaper but more to the point, it is horendously far safer!!!!! If you stop to think for one second, if a gas bottle in a gas locker develops a leak for what ever reason, fracture, valve not secured properly in the bottle, in a compact space with the locker door closed, just think of the consequences of the gas which would seep into your caravan whilst you are asleep, it doesn't bear thinking about, still the people concerned would never know, but is that any consolation? whilst if the gas bottle is outside and a leak develop your choice as to which is considered safer, I know where I'm keeping my bottle and if I cannot have it outside then there are plenty of sites that will not object.  

 

Finally, RogernN says that larger bottles cannot be carried upright, This is not a true statement. Many caravanners have 4 x 4's and I can assure RogerN that there is no problem in standing bottles up whatsoever, and before anyone asks, yes, I do have not one but two stickers on the rear of my 4 x 4 advising that I am carrying gas cylinders. (I put them on only when gas cylinders are present)

50043[/snapback]

Check the inside of your gas locker and you will see vents in the bottom to allow gas out. You'll also find them inside your caravan as well. They are in the bottom because the gas can then sink out of harms way. I was at a rally this New Year when one of our members tried a regulator and bottle that he had found in his back garden. Turned the propane on and a jet of gas escaped from one of the joints. Seems the regulator had failed. Thats not one of your "unecessary continious drummed up thoughts that are created for no reason at all"

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Check the inside of your gas locker and you will see vents in the bottom to allow gas out. You'll also find them inside your caravan as well. They are in the bottom because the gas can then sink out of harms way. I was at a rally this New Year when one of our members tried a regulator and bottle that he had found in his back garden. Turned the propane on and a jet of gas escaped from one of the joints. Seems the regulator had failed. Thats not one of your "unecessary continious drummed up thoughts that are created for no reason at all"

50051[/snapback]

For a member to have, "FOUND a regulator and BOTTLE in his BACK GARDEN and use it is nothing short of stupidity, he cannot be much of a caravanner or simply just a novice because no experienced caravanner would dream of using a gas bottle and regulator just FOUND in a BACK GARDEN. This is clearly a recipe for a disaster and surely I should not have to tell you that. Gas bottles exchanged from authorised agents have to go through stringent tests before they are released likewise with regulators. All I can say is. get real. What do you expect from a BOTTLE and a REGULATOR DUG UP IN A GARDEN? Gas creeps and seeps anywhere it can.

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. ............ if the C&CC club have stopped this proceedure. ..............

49978[/snapback]

 

Oh dear. .....another caravanner that doesn't read signs/magazine/literature etc etc and believes they can do what they want regardless.

 

C&CC Site rules are that large gas bottles that are not contained in the designated gas locker of a caravan/motor home are not permitted and this was mentioned in the Club magazine sometime ago.

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Robin

 

I am not saying that ALL big bottle users carry them horizontally but it is amazing how many have a wooden cradle attached so that they do roll around when laid flat!

 

My other concern, as Scoop mentioned, is that there must be good ventilation below the gas cylinders. If there is a leak, the gas, which is heavier than air, will flow and pool at the lowest point unless it can escape. Any spark will then cause an exposion. This is why boats are so dangerous as gas can build up in their bilges, this is one reason for their large insurance premiums.

 

Roger

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Robin

 

I am not saying that ALL big bottle users carry them horizontally but it is amazing how many have a wooden cradle attached so that they do roll around when laid flat!

 

 

If it so dangerous to transport gas bottles on their side, why to gas power forklift trucks have the gas bottle strapped on the back behind the driver on its side???

 

In that situation the gas is use. When we transport the gas it is not in use.

 

Bob R

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Oh dear. .....another caravanner that doesn't read signs/magazine/literature etc etc and believes they can do what they want regardless.

 

C&CC Site rules are that large gas bottles that are not contained in the designated gas locker of a caravan/motor home are not permitted and this was mentioned in the Club magazine sometime ago.

50087[/snapback]

Unfortunately I do not have as much time on my hands as some, I generally work 12/14 hours a day six days a week and about 8 hours on the seventh day, all I had time for last year for a holiday was 10 days in 365, so you are quite right, another caravanner who does not read everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Secondly its not the case of pleasing one's self what they do regardless, I'm doing no different to what has been done for the las 40 years or more and is still being done by many, many caravanners and will continue if not on club sites then else where. if a gas bottle valve or pipe fractured whilst in the locker at 30mb it wouldn't take many seconds to fill the locker and the gas locker would be nothing short of a bomb all accumulated in a confined space and all it needs is for the caravanner to light up a cigarette and he and his family could be history and anyone else near by. Gas does not disperse through a vent at the same pressure that it comes out of a bottle!!!

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Robin

 

I am not saying that ALL big bottle users carry them horizontally but it is amazing how many have a wooden cradle attached so that they do roll around when laid flat!

 

My other concern, as Scoop mentioned, is that there must be good ventilation below the gas cylinders. If there is a leak, the gas, which is heavier than air, will flow and pool at the lowest point unless it can escape. Any spark will then cause an exposion. This is why boats are so dangerous as gas can build up in their bilges, this is one reason for their large insurance premiums.

 

Roger

50092[/snapback]

Roger

 

If a valve suddenly fractured or a pipe burst, then at 30mb pressure it would not take many seconds to fill the locker and here you have an instant bomb, a confined space filled with gas almost instantly and I do not accept the a vent would disperse gas through the floor at a possible rate of 30mb. If the owner lit a cigarette it is possible history for him and his family and anyone else near by, not every one has a good sense of smell which is often forgotten about. I cannot see what the concern is after all these years of what other people decide to do. To me, if a valve fractured or a pipe burst, I would rather have this happen outside my van than possibly in the gas locker at 2am in the morning when me and my family are fast asleep.

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Unfortunately I do not have as much time on my hands as some, I generally work 12/14 hours a day six days a week and about 8 hours on the seventh day, all I had time for last year for a holiday was 10 days in 365, so you are quite right, another caravanner who does not read everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Secondly its not the case of pleasing one's self what they do regardless, I'm doing no different to what has been done for the las 40 years or more and is still being done by many, many caravanners and will continue if not on club sites then else where. if a gas bottle valve or pipe fractured whilst in the locker at 30mb it wouldn't take many seconds to fill the locker and the gas locker would be nothing short of a bomb all accumulated in a confined space and all it needs is for the caravanner to light up a cigarette and he and his family could be history and anyone else near by. Gas does not disperse through a vent at the same pressure that it comes out of a bottle!!!

50097[/snapback]

 

I share Robin’s concerns over the rationale for the new high pressure gas system currently in use. Previously with the regulator attached to the bottle any leakage was at the reduced pressure designated by the regulator. With the current system there’s an unnecessary and unacceptable risk brought about by the regulator being installed as a fixed item in the caravan locker which leaves the supply hose from the cylinder to the regulator operating at high pressure, in the event of an leak the resulting volume of gas discharged would be both rapid and excessive, personally I don’t wont have any high pressure flexible pipework within any confined space regardless of the provision vent drain holes being employed. Perhaps that’s down to 25+ years experience of attending property fires caused by a multitude of accelerants LPG being only one of them. Only time will tell of the wisdom of employing this new system but from a safety perspective I believe it’s a retrograde step.

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Check the inside of your gas locker and you will see vents in the bottom to allow gas out. You'll also find them inside your caravan as well. They are in the bottom because the gas can then sink out of harms way. I was at a rally this New Year when one of our members tried a regulator and bottle that he had found in his back garden. Turned the propane on and a jet of gas escaped from one of the joints. Seems the regulator had failed. Thats not one of your "unecessary continious drummed up thoughts that are created for no reason at all"

50051[/snapback]

This is partly one of my points!! what a caravanner did, NOT A NOVICE!! imagine if the jet did not immediately release a jet of gas but subsequently did so at 2am when a family is fast asleep, the locker would have filled up immediately BUT not emptied immediately!!! one potential bomb!! I would suggest everyone carrying on doing what they wish and what makes them happy, I know what I'm going to carry on doing and if clubs won't allow a bottle outside of a caravan then there are plenty of other alternatives and no further business from me.

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I prefer to have my bottle outside the van, and the old system.

every couple of years replace the gauge (£6ish) and the pipe,

 

But as we all have to use what is supplied, (pressure wise) :rolleyes:

and they do supply longer lengths of high pressure pipe, lets hope eazygeeze manages to get one :)

Paul B

. .......Mondeo Estate & Elddis Avanté 505 (Tobago)

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