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Citroen C5


coljac
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Ihave just bought a new c5,i tow a bailey borbeaux mtplm 1366kg . The c5 is a VTR 2LTRCDI. Iwould appreciate any feed back from c5 owners . you read all the stuff in the magazines but you cant beat feed back and tips from real towers

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Big Citroens are usually pretty good tow cars, at least my Xantia was. Not quite sure what engine you have? Before I got the X-Trail I was thinking about the C5 with the 2. 2 HDi engine.

 

David

David - Milton Keynes

Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome for holidays and a Kia Venga for home.

 

Caravan Travels

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Hi Coljac,

Is that petrol or HDI diesel. According to Carpages you are just under or slightly over the 100% towing ratio which is not a good idea for stability. The manufacturers towing limit is 1500kgs. Citroen have made some excellent towcars as Klyne says but I would have thought that the weight was an issue. :unsure:

 

http://www. carpages. co. uk/guide/citroen/citroen-c5-guide. asp

 

Frank

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  • 2 weeks later...
Ihave just bought a new c5,i tow a bailey borbeaux mtplm 1366kg . The c5 is a VTR 2LTRCDI. Iwould appreciate any feed back from c5 owners . you read all the stuff in the magazines but you cant beat feed back and tips from real towers

4717[/snapback]

 

Hi coljac, Just read your post. I run a 2. 2 HDI C5 estate & find it pulls our Baily Pageant Auvergne with out any complaints, plus the drive is silky smooth you hardly know its there (unlike the trip i had last week in a friends mondy!!)

The Auvergne is a similar MTPLM as yours (1338kg) so I think youve made a good choice. By the way, What is a CDI? or is it a typing error?

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Hi Gord,

Welcome to CT2.

 

According to Carpages:-

 

http://www. carpages. co. uk/guide/citroen/citroen-c5-guide. asp

 

There is a substantial difference in kerweight between the 2. 0HdiVti and your 2. 2Hdi. I presumed that Cdi meant Hdi.

 

It list Coljacs as 1385kgs,which is why I commented on the match and yours as 1518kgs. :)

 

Frank

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Hi

I pull a Lunar Quaser EB at 1300kgs with my C5SXHDI. It pulls well with no stability problems even at 93% based on the quoted weight. With the Lunar having a good loading margin I dont run up to the fully laden weight.

Sandy

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Ihave just bought a new c5,i tow a bailey borbeaux mtplm 1366kg . The c5 is a VTR 2LTRCDI. Iwould appreciate any feed back from c5 owners . you read all the stuff in the magazines but you cant beat feed back and tips from real towers

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Hi coljac, just been reading your post & all the replies. I had the C5 on my list two years ago, looked at diesel/auto. Got turned off because the auto was downrated to 1000kg (all manuals being 1500kg).You don't say which your's is & I don't know if they have changed their spec. Just thought I would add my experiences. :rolleyes: Regards. 'ampshire 'og

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The new C5 (Type II)..................

 

Berline 2. 0 HDI (100 kW):

Kerbweight 1461 - GVW 2006 - MPTW 1700 kg* - GTW 3506

 

Break 2. 0 HDI (100 kW):

1495 - 2120 - 1600** - 3520

 

Berline 2. 2 HDIf 98 kW (auto):

1533 - 2078 - 1400*** - 3178

 

Break 2. 2 HDIf (98 kW) (auto):

1566 - 2171 - 1300**** - 3171

 

* 1500 and GVW 2006

** 1400 and GVW 2120

*** 1100 and GVW 2078

**** 1000 and GVW 2171

 

So, bewarrrre of the Kelpy. .... <_<

 

Regards, Bert

www. whattowcar. com

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Hi Coljac,

        Is that petrol or HDI diesel. According to Carpages you are just under or slightly over the 100% towing ratio which is not a good idea for stability. The manufacturers towing limit is 1500kgs. Citroen have made some excellent towcars as Klyne says but I would have thought that the weight was an issue. :unsure:

 

http://www. carpages. co. uk/guide/citroen/citroen-c5-guide. asp

 

Frank

4728[/snapback]

 

Just had a look at the Citroen website

http://www. citroen. co. uk/level4/technicalS. ..hback&infoID=12

2. 0 HDI is 138bhp and 1498kg unladen, so if its the new version that makes it 91%, which sounds better.

 

Also check out http://www. cuddles. abelgratis. net/citroen. htm#c54

The 1385kg refers to earlier model, Coljac says he just bought new, so more likely to be the heavier model (hope)

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It doesn't look as if we will ever find a definitive site for kerbweights as even the sites devoted to caravanners such as Towsafe,used by the trade, is dependant on manufacturers using one standard and informing Towsafe of updates. If in doubt the only safe route is the weighbridge. :(:)

 

Frank

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The trouble is that there are different definitions of kerb weight. The EU definition includes the weight of the driver but the CC definition excludes the weight of the driver (page 603 CC handbook) and without towbar. Thus kerb weight can vary 100Kg or more for the same car depending on which definition you use. It therefore seems illogical that you should use the same 85% ratio for stability. For example, if you take a car with kerb weight of 1400Kg as defined by the CC club you could tow 1190Kg on the 85% guidance. If the same car now becomes 1500Kg under the EU definition, then you would need to use a ratio of around 80% to come up the same towing weight. The car has not changed, only the definition, so the recommended tow weight should not change.

 

Food for thought!

 

My own personal view is that vehicles suspension has improved dramatically over the last 20 years so I would be happy in using the EU definition of kerb weight, which give higher recommended towing weights.

 

Brian

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I think in the case of this C5 the difference is related to there being a newer model available. Carpages data fits with the original version but not new version, the 'cuddles' data shows both versions and therefore agrees with Carpages and Citroen. I've looked at the 'cuddles' data many many times and it always agrees with the manufacturers. I would assume (dangerous I know) that any data given in a UK specification refering to Kerbweight would be comparable?

 

In terms of legality if stopped I would have thought that police (or other enforcement authority) would work on plated weights rather than any data offered by the owner/driver. ...any thoughts?

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Kerb weight does not appear in the plated weights, which normally list max axle weights, max gross weight and max train weight. Hence the grey area. The max train weight is often more than double the kerb weight so unless you are well over 100% load ratio, you are unlikely to reach it. So you can be well over 100% legally, with the correct type of driving licence, but this is not to be recommended for safe towing at 60mph.

 

Brian

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In terms of legality if stopped I would have thought that police (or other enforcement authority) would work on plated weights rather than any data offered by the owner/driver. ...any thoughts?

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Hi Jet,

Yes,as the police can't be expected to carry a mass of data, they would simply check the VIN plates.

 

Max Train Weight - Cars Gross Weight = Max Trailer Weight

 

If Max Trailer Weight was more than your vans MTPLM you could be in trouble. It is the Max Trailer Weight that is the max legal weight, as this is the manufacturers towing limit. As Brian has stated the fact that you may be over the 100% kerbweight ratio is not a legal issue,it's just that it is not to be recommended,tail wagging dog etc. :)

 

Check out the NTTA website:-

 

http://www. ntta. co. uk/law/preparing/preparing. htm

 

Frank

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Is it illegal to tow more than the cars towing limit? I thought that the max tow limit was based on a hill start of 12%. Is it legally enforcable. Is it not the actual laden weight of the caravan that should be used in any weight ratio calculations? I have put this question to caravan dealers,insurance companies, the caravan club etc, but nobody can give me a definite answer. Can a caravan with an mtplm greater than the cars tow weight, but loaded to below the cars tow weight and thus well below the gross train weight be towed legally.

Also, can a caravan with an mtplm greater than the cars tow weight be towed even if the outfit is within the gross train weight.

I know about the 85% rule and towing safety but would like to establish what the 'Law' is if pulled over by the police.

Thanks.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Ihave just bought a new c5,i tow a bailey borbeaux mtplm 1366kg . The c5 is a VTR 2LTRCDI. Iwould appreciate any feed back from c5 owners . you read all the stuff in the magazines but you cant beat feed back and tips from real towers

4717[/snapback]

 

 

Hi Coljac,

 

an important point thet has just come to light!!

 

Our 2. 2 HDI (Diesel) has just gone in for some work at the dealers, and they have lent us a HPI (Petrol). What an eye-opener!! This petrol version has trouble pulling itself along, let alone putting over a ton of 'van behind it. The engine is also jerky irresponsive, what a dissapointment.

 

It would seem that its got to be diesel if a C5 is your choice.

 

Regards Gord :D

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All cars sold in the EEC have to be type approved to European Directive 95/48/EC (known as the weights and measures directive) and they have to give the kerb weight, max weight, towing limit and gross train weight. They also have to give all the towbar mounting points and towball centre to rear axle centre and towball height from the ground when laden. The kerb weight is with the car's fuel tank 90% full and a driver weighing 68kg on board plus 7kg of luggage in the boot. The old SMMT kerb weight had a full fuel tank but no driver or luggage. Be careful as some makers simply deduct 75kg rom the EU kerb weight when printing info in their brochures. They then get the unbraked trailer weight limit wrong as they use half the EU weight instead so all the published weights are illegal! Renault are "good" at doing this.

 

Also watch out for a reduction in weight if more than the driver is in the car. Renault Vel Satis has a towing limit of 1600kg but when wifey gets in the car it is reduced to 1000kg! The Scenic again drops to 1000kg from 1300kg which some people only find out about after they have bought the car! They obviously have heavy women in France. All of the above info must be printed in the car's handbook but you will often find some of it missing.

 

Frank says that for the towing limit deduct the max weight of the car from the gross train weight but that is if a towing limit is not declared. You can of course vary the weights of car and van and stay within the gross train weight as long as you do not exceed any individual max weight.

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All cars sold in the EEC have to be type approved to European Directive 95/48/EC (known as the weights and measures directive) and they have to give the kerb weight, max weight, towing limit and gross train weight. They also have to give all the towbar mounting points and towball centre to rear axle centre and towball height from the ground when laden. The kerb weight is with the car's fuel tank 90% full and a driver weighing 68kg on board plus 7kg of luggage in the boot. The old SMMT kerb weight had a full fuel tank but no driver or luggage. Be careful as some makers simply deduct 75kg rom the EU kerb weight when printing info in their brochures. They then get the unbraked trailer weight limit wrong as they use half the EU weight instead so all the published weights are illegal! Renault are "good" at doing this.

 

Also watch out for a reduction in weight if more than the driver is in the car. Renault Vel Satis has a towing limit of 1600kg but when wifey gets in the car it is reduced to 1000kg! The Scenic again drops to 1000kg from 1300kg which some people only find out about after they have bought the car! They obviously have heavy women in France. All of the above info must be printed in the car's handbook but you will often find some of it missing.

 

Frank says that for the towing limit deduct the max weight of the car from the gross train weight but that is if a towing limit is not declared. You can of course vary the weights of car and van and stay within the gross train weight as long as you do not exceed any individual max weight.

11625[/snapback]

 

I believe Renault have cleared up the weight issues of the Scenic. Can't remember where I've seen it - maybe Practical Caravan or CC Magazine.

 

Mike

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:)

11884[/snapback]

Thank you all for the replies to my quiery i have learned a lot from the forum and i hope others have too. we now have both the C5 and the bailey bordeaux and i must say up to now we are delighted with them. As a matter of interest i have just received thevehcle reg,docs, from dvla which gives a max braked tow weight of 1500kg, as we travel light i dont think the van will ever gross more than 1300kg. Ihave also been towing for 20 years so i think we will be OK. Once again thank you all,by the way Kline your site is great i have passed you on to afew of my mates Coljac

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I've just got details of the new C5 and the max tow weight for the 2. 2 HDi Auto Estate is only 1300Kg while the manual version is 1600

Phil

9282[/snapback]

 

Probably 1300Kgs is all the automatic box can safely handle.

Citroen C5-X7 Tourer+Avondale Rialto 480/2
https://jondogoescaravanning.com

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