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Caravan Weight Upgrade

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It gets more confusing when the plate by the door gives the maximum weight published by the manufacturer for that caravan, but another plate in the gas bottle locker gives the maximum weight that it can be upgraded to.

Edited by piesporter

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It gets more confusing when the plate by the door gives the maximum weight published by the manufacturer for that caravan, but another plate in the gas bottle locker gives the maximum weight that it can be upgraded to.

 

So surely there should NOT be any objections to down plating???

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Dan! you are confusing yourself! No one is saying you cannot downgrade, but you need to be careful about downgrading especially if you have a B licence as you would probably need to weigh the caravan every time before you set off.

If stopped by VOSA there probably will not be a problem but if stopped by the police they may wonder why the tyres have such a high load rating against the MTPLM as the MTPLM plate has no standing in the eyes of the law and if a ticket was issued it would probably be thrown out of court if defended.

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Theres is no law about down plating on trailers under 3500kgs but as said you would need to reduce the weight in the caravan as it would be easier to exceed the lower figure .

 

 

 

Dave

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Just to clarify my twin axle has axle weights of 950 per axle and a hitch weight of 150 so I would take that as the maximum load of van could be 2050kg assuming 150kg is the nose weight(discovery 3 will take that) or 2000kg at 100kg nose weight. This is irrespective that Elddis plate the MTLP at 1854? And vosa/police would go by the higher weight (tyres go even higher and I’m b+e driver)? Thank you

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30 minutes ago, Popeman said:

Just to clarify my twin axle has axle weights of 950 per axle and a hitch weight of 150 so I would take that as the maximum load of van could be 2050kg assuming 150kg is the nose weight(discovery 3 will take that) or 2000kg at 100kg nose weight. This is irrespective that Elddis plate the MTLP at 1854? And vosa/police would go by the higher weight (tyres go even higher and I’m b+e driver)? Thank you

 

Probably not  - each axle is unlikely to carry exactly the same load so the Elddis plate at 1854 kg is your limit.

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The mass of the caravan can not exceed the plated Mtplm of 1854 kg .

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20 minutes ago, Popeman said:

Just to clarify my twin axle has axle weights of 950 per axle and a hitch weight of 150 so I would take that as the maximum load of van could be 2050kg assuming 150kg is the nose weight(discovery 3 will take that) or 2000kg at 100kg nose weight. This is irrespective that Elddis plate the MTLP at 1854? And vosa/police would go by the higher weight (tyres go even higher and I’m b+e driver)? Thank you

Not necessarily!

It is not a good practice to mix weight and mass, the two are quite different, despite often using the same numbers.

The MTPLM (mass) shown on the statutory plate can be well under the total of the allowable weights on each axle and the hitch. 

There have been other threads on here recently about the difference between the MTPLM shown on statutory plate and that the NCC label.

 

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The maximum axle load rating has no direct bearing on the MTPLM although obviously it can't be less than the MTPLM. In the end, the maximum MTPLM is what is shown on the type approval plate. This is the plate, correctly referred to as the statutory plate, that also displays the type approval number.

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It's one of the oddities of caravanning, the plated MTPLM (i.e. MRO plus Payload) is absolute and is the overall weight of the van taken from both axles and the noseweight all added together. You cannot offset the noseweight to arrive at MTPLM.

 

The allocated Payload is usually arrived at on UK vans using the NCC's minimum payload formula and usually the axle/s fitted is/are limited to the next 50kg or 100kg point above the resulting MTPLM. Manufacturers will usually agree an upgrade of MTPLM to the axle/s limits if the owner requests.

 

So, even if the MTPLM is upgraded to the axle/s max, and the van is loaded to MTPLM, the load on the axle/s will always be less than their limit by the amount of actual noseweight.

 

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

It's one of the oddities of caravanning, the allocated MTPLM (i.e. MRO plus Payload) is absolute and is the overall weight of the van taken from both axles and the noseweight all added together. You cannot offset the noseweight to arrive at MTPLM.

 

The allocated Payload is usually arrived at on UK vans using the NCC's minimum payload formula and usually the axle/s fitted is/are limited to the next 50kg or 100kg point above the resulting MTPLM. Manufacturers will usually agree an upgrade of MTPLM to the axle/s limits if the owner requests.

 

So, even if the MTPLM is upgraded to the axle/s max, and the van is loaded to MTPLM, the load on the axle/s will always be less than their limit by the amount of actual noseweight.

 

 

May I make a slight amendment to your above reply by changing the term 'plated' MTPLM to 'allocated' MTPLM, because the plated value is the statutory one, the allocated value is what is shown on the NCC label? The plated MTPLM is not arrived at by adding the payload to the MIRO.

 

Edited by Lutz

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On 21/05/2019 at 20:34, Popeman said:

Just to clarify my twin axle has axle weights of 950 per axle and a hitch weight of 150 so I would take that as the maximum load of van could be 2050kg assuming 150kg is the nose weight(discovery 3 will take that) or 2000kg at 100kg nose weight. This is irrespective that Elddis plate the MTLP at 1854? And vosa/police would go by the higher weight (tyres go even higher and I’m b+e driver)? Thank you

Incorrectly I made a similar assumption with a previous 1993 caravan. I had assumed that with two axles, each with a 750kg load limit, my max load could be 1500kgs. I wrote to the manufacturer to ask if the 1300kg limit could be raised and was told this was not possible for two reasons. Firstly as the two axles could not be guaranteed to share the load equally they were down rated when in twin configuration but also because of this, the load rating of the A-Frame was also specified at 1300kgs.

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On 23/05/2019 at 08:38, Gordon said:

Incorrectly I made a similar assumption with a previous 1993 caravan. I had assumed that with two axles, each with a 750kg load limit, my max load could be 1500kgs. I wrote to the manufacturer to ask if the 1300kg limit could be raised and was told this was not possible for two reasons. Firstly as the two axles could not be guaranteed to share the load equally they were down rated when in twin configuration but also because of this, the load rating of the A-Frame was also specified at 1300kgs.

 

 

Currently, the only options on Alko A-frames are 1000/1600/2800/3500 kg gross rating

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Currently, the only options on Alko A-frames are 1000/1600/2800/3500 kg gross rating

 

Are you sure? A 2800kg chassis (the A-frame is part of the chassis) would require twin axles because there is no AlKo single axle rated that high. If the next size down is 1600kg this would mean that a 1700kg caravan would require a 2800kg chassis. Besides, as 1700kg is well within the limits of a single axle it would also mean that the 2800kg chassis must be designed to accommodate both single and twin axles, which I find hard to believe.

 

Edited by Lutz

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14 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

Are you sure? A 2800kg chassis (the A-frame is part of the chassis) would require twin axles because there is no AlKo single axle rated that high. If the next size down is 1600kg this would mean that a 1700kg caravan would require a 2800kg chassis. Besides, as 1700kg is well within the limits of a single axle it would also mean that the 2800kg chassis must be designed to accommodate both single and twin axles, which I find hard to believe.

 

 

Not a complete 2800 chassis, just the A-frame - I'm just going by Alko's complete online catalogue.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Not a complete 2800 chassis, just the A-frame - I'm just going by Alko's complete online catalogue.

 

Maybe it’s different for other trailers, but in most cases the A-frame of a caravan is part of the chassis frame, extending from the hitch to the rear corners.

Edited by Lutz

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

Maybe it’s different for other trailers, but in most cases the A-frame of a caravan is part of the chassis frame, extending from the hitch to the rear corners.

 

Alko refer to the A-frame component as the angled component joining the hitch to the parallel sections of the frame, or in the case of shorter trailers joining the hitch to the axle beam.

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3 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Alko refer to the A-frame component as the angled component joining the hitch to the parallel sections of the frame, or in the case of shorter trailers joining the hitch to the axle beam.

 

Many caravan chassis don’t have parallel sections of frame, but the A-frame continues in a straight line to the rear corners with outriggers to the front steadies.

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49 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

Many caravan chassis don’t have parallel sections of frame, but the A-frame continues in a straight line to the rear corners with outriggers to the front steadies.

 

Most look like this http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages/caravan-chassis.html   - the A-frame components are the two angled beams at the front - the remaining beams are parallel with the Axle tube joining them.

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On 23/05/2019 at 09:08, Black Grouse said:

 

Currently, the only options on Alko A-frames are 1000/1600/2800/3500 kg gross rating

1993 leda Pentland TA   1.jpg

This is the caravan in question, and I was assured by Avondale when I purchased it new, that they had fitted a smaller cross section, 1300kg rated, A-frame to match the down-rated axle limit, and so reduce the production cost slightly.

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.

Edited by Griff
Wrong topic.

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