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Low Payload In Caravans!


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Not according to NTTA

http://www. ntta. co. u. ..ion_plates. aspx

Brian

 

That site is known to contain a few errors. I cannot find any reference in the Road & Traffic Act (Construction & Use) Part III regarding domestic trailers needing weight plates, but that is not to say it isn't there which is why I suggested contacting VOSA.

In October 2012 it will be compulsory for trailers to be fitted with weight plates at point of manufacture which is why I again reasoned that domestic trailers do not require weight plates at this point.

Anyway the VIN plate on a caravan does not conform to ministerial requirements as no axle weights are displayed. If the VIN plate on a caravan complied, why is it so easy to upgrade it? Just my thoughts.

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I blame the EU for low Payload.

I did not realise that the EU dictated that the formula for user payload (in kg) should be 30+10L+10N where L is caravan body length in metres, and N is number of berths.

 

The National caravan council decided that in the UK we are used to more payload and the 30 should be replaced by 50

 

You set a low limit and that is what manufacturers will go for. As many of us use a motormover perhaps the figure should have been increased to 70kg instead of 50. Especially as10 kg per person is a paltry amount if you are away for a month. My clothing without waterproof jacket and Gortex jacket or shoes or bedding or toiletries comes to 7kg and I consider that I carry little clothing. .

Alan

 

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What makes you think it is a EU thing? Obviously not legislation otherwise you would not be able to upgrade your caravan. Also highly unlikely VOSA would use that to determine if you are over weight as they would go by axle weights.

The low figure is set by manufacturers to make you think you have a lighter caravan and to enable more cars to be able to tow it. Once you go over 1700kg many cars, (not 4 x 4's), cannot tow at that weight.

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I blame the EU for low Payload.

I did not realise that the EU dictated that the formula for user payload (in kg) should be 30+10L+10N where L is caravan body length in metres, and N is number of berths.

 

The National caravan council decided that in the UK we are used to more payload and the 30 should be replaced by 50

 

You set a low limit and that is what manufacturers will go for. As many of us use a motormover perhaps the figure should have been increased to 70kg instead of 50. Especially as10 kg per person is a paltry amount if you are away for a month. My clothing without waterproof jacket and Gortex jacket or shoes or bedding or toiletries comes to 7kg and I consider that I carry little clothing. .

 

Can't see how such a formula has been applied to Eribas by Hymer. A Troll like ours would be 30kg+(4. 66x10kg=46. 6kg)+(3x10kg=30kg) totals 106. 6kg payload. According to Hymer the Unladen Weight is 910kg, the MIRO is 940kg and the MPTLM is 1200kg giving a payload of 290kg or 260kg depending on how you want to look at it. More recent Trolls have an MTPLM of 1300kg with very little change in unladen or MIRO. So in those cases the payload is around 390kg or 360kg which is an awful lot bigger than the 107kg the formula provides.

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From Practical Caravan - http://www. practicalcaravan. com/advice/how-payload-calculated-using-revised-formula

 

' Quote from part of PC article.

 

13. 01. 2011

Posted by : niall. hampton

''CARAVAN MANUFACTURERS in EU countries must calculate the weight of personal effects that may be carried in a tourer using this formula:

 

10L+10N+30kg

 

For a popular two-berth van, such as the Bailey Ranger GT60 460/2, this works out as: (5. 2m x 10) + (2 berths x 10) + 30kg = 102kg.

This figure is just about adequate for a couple.''

 

My note - The NCC added 20kg using 50 instead of 30 in the formula so in this example 122kg is minimum payload.

This was an EU directive (type approval) which presumably was a minimum. There are many references to it on the web.

 

Can't see how such a formula has been applied to Eribas by Hymer. A Troll like ours would be 30kg+(4. 66x10kg=46. 6kg)+(3x10kg=30kg) totals 106. 6kg payload. According to Hymer the Unladen Weight is 910kg, the MIRO is 940kg and the MPTLM is 1200kg giving a payload of 290kg or 260kg depending on how you want to look at it. More recent Trolls have an MTPLM of 1300kg with very little change in unladen or MIRO. So in those cases the payload is around 390kg or 360kg which is an awful lot bigger than the 107kg the formula provides.

I presume that the EU directive sets a minimum payload allowance. As above NCC have increased this by 20kg for UK. Manufacturers may not build to the minimum but obviously plate to it to make there vans appear light weight.

Alan

 

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PC have been know to get it wrong in many areas. Do they quote an EU directive regarding this formula as how would the formula be applied to a horse box or similar heavy duty trailer with a MIRO of 850kgs and MTPLM of 2000kg?

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Same info on caravan times and whilst I can't find 2012 details on NCC website 2011 info gives an example of the thinking

Alan

 

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I don't want to knock or dispute their article, but it must be remembered that one copies it from the other. Most magazines are reluctant to publish links or point to the legislation in question because the journalist is too bone idle to look it up and do some research.

A case of a friend's friend's uncle's aunt scenario. As I have been burnt in the past, I now try and get it from the horse's mouth so to speak and it is amazing the difference in facts.

Sometimes I pretend to be normal, but it gets boring so I go back to being me.

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A case of a friend's friend's uncle's aunt scenario. As I have been burnt in the past, I now try and get it from the horse's mouth so to speak and it is amazing the difference in facts.

 

And the horse's mouth (well, it's probably the mouth, but sometimes I wonder if it's not t'other end) in this case is VOSA and getting an answer from them is impossible. They just sit back and wait for a test case.

 

A few years back i contacted VOSA regarding the regulations and specifications needed to have a vehicle changed from 'light goods' to 'motorcaravan' on the V5. I was told over the phone that they didn't like giving out the specs because then people would simply follow them to comply. :o What they preferred was to take each vehicle on merit. As it happens I did get my up-grade - for what it was worth - but it wasn't easy.

 

Maybe I'm a sceptic, but perhaps this is just a way of bolstering up the motor caravan industry who seem to think that shoving a few bits of furniture inside a panel van can justify a £15K price hike. You can buy a whole caravan for less than that.

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I changed my 4 x 4 vehicle from light goods to estate by completing the V5 and sending it off for updating. I agree about VOSA as the same question was put to them by different people at different times but no more than a few weeks apart and the answers contradicted done another. The question was regarding weights and MTPLM and was asked by NTTA and the other by an unrelated forum member.

Basically turns out that to prosecute on MTPLM is a big NO NO and that they need to weigh the trailer for a successful prosecution. However they also need to prove that the trailer was unfit to be used on the road, i. e. badly loaded. This is in reference to domestic trailers or caravans.

Sometimes I pretend to be normal, but it gets boring so I go back to being me.

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I changed my 4 x 4 vehicle from light goods to estate by completing the V5 and sending it off for updating. I agree about VOSA as the same question was put to them by different people at different times but no more than a few weeks apart and the answers contradicted done another. The question was regarding weights and MTPLM and was asked by NTTA and the other by an unrelated forum member.

Basically turns out that to prosecute on MTPLM is a big NO NO and that they need to weigh the trailer for a successful prosecution. However they also need to prove that the trailer was unfit to be used on the road, i. e. badly loaded. This is in reference to domestic trailers or caravans.

 

Of course, they won't want to take a caravanner to court on what is basically a technicality and risk losing - which because of all the clever clogs lawyers out there is always possible with technicalities - because that would set a precedent and open up all sorts of cans of worms.

 

This forum really is guinea a minute stuff.

2006 Ford Transit 'day-van' in a delicate shade of ex-RAC orange.

2006 Elddis Avante 636 TA in off-white - usually.

No Land Rovers at the moment.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If the van has a inboard tank the miro is calculated with it filled so the weight of the water can be taken off unless you travel with it full.

 

Hi Steve. Why would anyone want to travel with an inboard/onboard water tank full?,unless of course they are going into the Desert.

It makes for an unstable van and robs the tow-vehicle of power and therefore uses more fuel.

Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned.
Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties.

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Hi Steve. Why would anyone want to travel with an inboard/onboard water tank full?,unless of course they are going into the Desert.

It makes for an unstable van and robs the tow-vehicle of power and therefore uses more fuel.

 

In other parts of the world it's very popular, when off the blacktop

Regards,

Kevin

Honda F-RV towing 1999 Bailey Senator Montana

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In other parts of the world it's very popular, when off the blacktop

 

Hi Kevin. Pardon my ignorance or maybe stupidity but what is "when off the blacktop" ?

Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned.
Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties.

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off road. .. In Australia and other country's some will travel into the outback and pitch up where ever takes their fancy so they take everything they need with them. One user on here said they have three large inboard fresh water tanks

Regards,

Kevin

Honda F-RV towing 1999 Bailey Senator Montana

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Hi Kevin. Thank you for that snippet of info,it is as good as being in the desert. The caravan looks to be a very short twin axle and rather Military in general appearance.

Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned.
Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties.

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Hi, we have 3 tanks. We only travel with water in one tank. There is a protocol here regarding water, especailly in the more remote parts. You can fill them in a van park no problems, where you are paying a fee, but if you pull up at a fuel stop, and also want to fill your water tanks, things can get a little difficult, especially if the stop relies on rain water only (I've only heard this, not experienced it). A lot of places have bore water, but it can be poor quality, so you don't really want to put it in your tanks. Some people reserve a tank for this purpose, and use it for washing only. We are going up to the Flinders ranges in SA via Broken Hill in October, so will probably fill up a second tank in Broken Hill.

Speaking of payload, our van has a tare of about 2000KG and an ATM of 3000KG. Our caravan terms are a bit different from yours, but it means our van can carry a 1000kg payload. We don't do this though, as I think my car, and the wallet would object!

Edited by ddcman

Diesel Pathfinder 140kw/450nm towing off road Trakmaster 16' Nullarbor caravan.
690 watt solar, 300 amphr Lifep04, 3 x 85 L water tanks. Airbag suspension.

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Hi Kevin. Pardon my ignorance or maybe stupidity but what is "when off the blacktop" ?

 

I think they meant Outback for Oz or "bush" (shateen) for South Africa?

Edited by Surf01

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