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Truma Gas Regulator


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Greetings All,

 

Just had to have this replaced in our 4 month old Bailey Pageant Auvergne. I thought I would start this as a new subject as it has been covered under other topics but I feel it needs a wider airing.

 

We were away and started to get low flames on the cooker just like the bottle was getting empty. We were on Propane at the time. Changed over to new bottle of Butane, nothing, changed back to old Propane bottle and managed to finish cooking with low flame. Took Propane bottle into local dealer to exchange, he said there was still a lot of gas in it and it was probably the Truma Regulator. He had changed over 50 he said. Went to another Dealer to check, he said it was typical and that it was the Regulator. He had changed over 60 in the last four months. Even though I had not bought the Van from them he rang Truma and got their authorisation to change it under warranty. Everything now fine, thanks to Mendip Caravans in Newport.

 

The question is, is this known problem being resolved by Truma and the Gas Suppliers, or do I wait for it to happen again, not nice at this time of the year.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards Dave

Edited by caraman1
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Blimey is this the new kind that changes bottle over automatically like in my Senator?

 

Must check it out. :o

 

Cheers ;)

44636[/snapback]

 

I don't think the "auto changeover" facility is an option on models other than the Sentor John. But without dashing down to the storage place to look I seem to remember there are 2 fittings in the boot of the Senator - presumably one is a regulator & one the auto changeover thingy or am I "up the creek without a paddle" here B)

The local gas fitter here who fitted a POL fitting onto the supply hose commented on what he thought looked like a "nice" setup re the regulator as a matter of interest. Even though I made strenuous efforts to ensure the fitting on the flexible hose would fit the NZ gas bottle which is standard POL the fitting as supplied from the UK was about half a millimetre too large in diameter. One of those mysteries in life :)

Hoping to get the Lou out for a quick shakedown weekend within a couple of weeks but we're shifting house as well so the priorities are a little confused. I want to check out the awnings prior to the big holiday in december :) Simplist way is to head for the local thermal resort for the weekend.

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Dave you were lucky, your regulator failed in the UK.

 

Mine failed in Austria in July and it was impossible to get it changed, even by Truma approved main agents.

 

Resulted in having to buy a bottle of gas and regulator in Austria and back fed into my caravan via the external gas point.

 

problem then was I could not get the purchased cylinder back to the UK as the regulations only allow gas bottles to travel when fitted into their appointed storage fixtures and these were already occupied by the unusable UK gas cylinders.

 

I am trying to get my £60. 00 expenditure back theough my dealer as the caravan was and still is less than 12 months old. I have resorted to purchasing a replacement regulator in case the same happens again whilst outside the UK.

 

Not impressed with Truma.

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Dave you were lucky, your regulator failed in the UK.

 

Just what I was thinking. I always carry a spare pump, as this is "a single point of failure" and would cause us great problems if it failed. Looks like I will have to think about a spare regulator now. I had been using Camping Gaz cylinders, so I don't think the blame necessarily lies with the gas manufacturers. One of the dealers thought it was a reaction with the rubber in the regulator causing it to swell. Both dealers said as far as they knew they had not had any failures with the replacements they had supplied. May be it was the batches sent to the caravan manufacturers at fault. I wish someone would own up and tell us if it is now fixed.

 

Dave

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Same happened to my Bailey Pageant Monarch on day two of a sixteen day holiday when the 'van was only five months old. I rang my dealer who said that of course they would change it - bring it in. The only problem was that I was in Sandringham and the dealer was in Delamere, Cheshire. Rang Bailey, who's answerphone stated that they were on annual shutdown for summer hols. Eventually found a dealer near Norwich who had a new regulator which I fitted myself and claimed back the cost. I never used to take a tool kit in the 'van but it's now on my list of essentials.

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I understand there has been a bad batch of gas regulators in circulation. I had the same problem on my Provence 2 days before the end of my holiday in Brittany in September.

I have since purchased a 2 ring electric hob just in case this sort of thing happens again!!!!!!!!! This is one advantage of the dual fuel hob fitted to the Swift group of caravans as long as you are on a site with hook-up.

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As a contingency I take another regulator with my Cadac barbie so I can use it with my spare gas bottle. I can always site it in the sunny bit (if there is one) so I can chill, swill, grill, and bask in the 'beams. Also have a microwave in my new 'van - eventually.

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Resulted in having to buy a bottle of gas and regulator in Austria and back fed into my caravan via the external gas point.  

 

44708[/snapback]

 

 

Is this a safe option?

 

The equipment in modern caravans are made to work at a universal 30mb pressure regardless of gas type, whereas the old separate regulators I think were either 30mb or 35mb. If this is OK, is it important which regulator/type of gas you use?

 

Thanks

 

Roger

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Guest mr_sheens

all the new caravans since 2004 have now got to have the regulator permanently fitted to the caravan. all the appliances now opperate at 30mb instead of 28mb and 37mb. you cannot interchange the regulators any more it has to be 30mb.

as regards gas types, ie butane, propane truma, the manufacturers of the regulators are looking into the possibilty of one type of gas causing the problem. in my opinion this should not make any difference. truma have allegedly called in an independant company to try and find out the cause of the failure.

there are other manufacturers of caravans fitting different regulators which are not failing, one in particular is fitted to avondale caravans.

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I agrea with Roger and Mr Sheens comments, it is essential to ensure the regulator used is a 30mb regulator. I discussed the possibility of using the back feed through the gas bbq point with the Truma Main Agent in Austria, who then also supplied the parts required.

 

Its interesting to read Mr Sheens comments, so it is not the gas causing the problem.

 

Oh how I wish I lived in Lancashire, Mr Sheens always seem to on the ball with answers to many problems. Thanks

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Guest Hobbybod
all the new caravans since 2004 have now got to have the regulator permanently fitted to the caravan. all the appliances now opperate at 30mb instead of 28mb and 37mb. you cannot interchange the regulators any more it has to be 30mb.

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Now I don't know whether a caravan has got to have this Truma bulkhead regulator or not, or whether it's just that the UK Caravan makers decided to go down the Truma bulkhead regulator route, instead of the universal 30mb regulators (non-bulkhead) used on the majority of continental 'vans.

 

However, given my own, and others', reservations on piping cylinder pressure (3-4 bar!) gas along flexible 'rubber' pipes, the cost of the 'pig tails' and together with the seemingly frequent problems with dodgy Truma regulators, I'd be inclined to dispense with this daft system all together.

 

Remove the Truma bulkhead regulator, fit a orange gas pipe with threaded connections to the caravan gas pipe and fit a standard 30mb regulator at the other end of the orange gas pipe and fit the regulator onto the cylinder as per normal.

 

What's the problem? The German 'van makers do it and their gas regulations are way more stringent than ours! Perhaps that's why they don't use the Truma bulkhead regulator system!!!

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Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What I meant to ask was we have a Hymer van with a 30mb regulator going to a 40cm rubber hose threaded to the permanent piping, it seems to me a lot more sensible to the rubber hose on the low pressure side. However my question is is it possible to get an extended piece of tubing so that I can use a larger gas bottle outside of the van in the winter or are the threads at either end a "German special"?

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Hi All

 

As it has effected quite a few members and as the possibility of affecting even more, I suggest one of you people that have suffered this problem contact Trauma and ask them if they would care to answer the queries on this forum re their regulators. Not forgetting to mention there are over 2000 members. At least then we will have the makers side of the story.

 

Regards

Pete

Admin

Volvo
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Guest Hobbybod
Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What I meant to ask was we have a Hymer van with a 30mb regulator going to a 40cm rubber hose threaded to the permanent piping, it seems to me a lot more sensible to the rubber hose on the low pressure side.   However my question is is it possible to get an extended piece of tubing so that I can use a larger gas bottle outside of the van in the winter or are the threads at either end a "German special"?

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Hi fred, like my Hobby, your Hymer has a much more sensible system with the 30mb regulator on a 'flying lead' length of orange gas hose.

 

Yes it is possible to buy longer lengths of 'orange' hose with standard threaded connections. I bought (from Joeressens) such an extension hose in June this year. It has a 'male' connection one end and the 'female' connection the other end so it can be interspersed between the existing hose and the regulator, to make the whole tube length longer.

 

In my German catalogues the longest tube is 3m and that is from copper pipe compession fitting to a female threaded connection, at least as far as I understand it. My male-female tube is about 70cms I think and was the longest I saw in Joeressens.

I've never looked to see if they are sold here, but they are available in France as well.

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This is a reply from Truma regarding the problem

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Aston

mailto:caston%20at%20trumauk. com

Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:24 PM

Subject: RE: new regulators

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

 

 

The issue which you speak of is a problem with oil residue entering the regulator and damaging the internal workings. It doesn’t just affect the Truma regulator system. As an industry we are investigating where this oil is coming from to enable us to eradicate the issue.

 

Carrying a spare regulator may be an answer but as the regulator is now part of the vehicles gas supply system you would need to qualified to carry out the change of the regulator.

 

Until we can it is clear where the contamination comes from it is difficult to give you the answer that you are looking for.

 

Regards,

 

Chris Aston.

 

 

Has anyone had a problem with a Regulator other than those from Truma. ?? The only posts on the Forums mention Truma. Is this a general problem or are they trying to blame others??

 

Regards

 

Dave

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Guest mr_sheens

Quoting Hobbybod

 

"However, given my own, and others', reservations on piping cylinder pressure (3-4 bar!) gas along flexible 'rubber' pipes, the cost of the 'pig tails' and together with the seemingly frequent problems with dodgy Truma regulators, I'd be inclined to dispense with this daft system all together.

 

Remove the Truma bulkhead regulator, fit a orange gas pipe with threaded connections to the caravan gas pipe and fit a standard 30mb regulator at the other end of the orange gas pipe and fit the regulator onto the cylinder as per normal.

 

What's the problem? The German 'van makers do it and their gas regulations are way more stringent than ours! Perhaps that's why they don't use the Truma bulkhead regulator system!!!"

 

 

 

just to let you all know if you do as hobbybod suggests you will be invalidating any warranty on the gas system and you will be braking the gas regulations 2004 EN1949.

 

if a caravan is found by a dealer we are required to either refuse to work on the caravan if the regulator has been altered/removed, or put the caravan back to correct instalation, charging the customer for priviledge.

 

THIS IS THE LAW as regards UK caravans.

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Just had this reply from Truma

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

The bulkhead mounted regulator system has been used in the UK market for

nearly three years with no issues. However since May this year the industry

has suffered due to oil residues entering the gas system usually damaging

the regulator but in some cases has passed the regulator and damaged

appliances within the vehicle.

Cases of the issue are being recorded and would appear to be very

geographical. There is no pattern where age of vehicle is concerned so is

not due to a regulator batch fault.

As it is unclear as to where the oil is coming from Truma have been in

discussions with the major gas suppliers and the NCC to find out where the

contamination comes from and hopefully resolve the issue.

 

Truma are the largest supplier of this type of regulator in the UK so as a

company we are taking all the criticism while testing and investigation

takes place however other regulators fitted to imported vehicles are

suffering from the same oil residues and are failing in the same manor.

 

Until a solution is found Truma have agreed to supply replacement regulators

free of charge through the supplying dealers.

 

Regards,

 

Chris Aston

 

 

 

 

Dave

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Quoting Hobbybod

 

 

just to let you all know if you do as hobbybod suggests you will be invalidating any warranty on the gas system and you will be braking the gas regulations 2004 EN1949.

 

if a caravan is found by a dealer we are required to either refuse to work on the caravan if the regulator has been altered/removed, or put the caravan back to correct instalation, charging the customer for priviledge.

 

THIS IS THE LAW as regards UK caravans.

45225[/snapback]

 

Mr Sheens,

 

It is my understanding of the regulations as read that what you say is correct.

 

However I have had long discussions with both Corgi and my dealer (my dealer also with the Caravan Council) over gas bbq points (see posting) and they tell me different which I find extreemly alarming.

 

Corgi tell me that the new gas regulations DO NOT APPLY TO TOURING CARAVANS, be they new or old, and anybody can work on the gas installation on a touring caravan. How this would affect warranty I do not know but I would assume that your understanding Mr Sheen would be the logical answer.

 

My dealer has fitted what I interprete as an incorrect external gas bbq point (i. e. one without the red switch) The Caravan Council tell my dealer that this is ok as they have installed a seperate isolation tap under the bed space inside my caravan behind the gas point, however I can still remove the gas supply to the bbq without switching off the isolation tap. I have obtained a written confirmation from my dealer that the fitting they have fitted complies twith the applicable gas regulations so tghat I have some fall back when I sell the caravan.

 

It seems that the question of the gas regulations 2004 EN1949 is entirely down to interpretaion which cannot be safe for us caravaners.

 

Mr Sheen, if you could direct me to a clear precise document that supports your and my understanding I would be most grateful.

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Guest mr_sheens

attached is the data sheet.

 

to view yourself goto

http://www. nationalcaravan. co. uk/home/index. asp?id=2&rid=259

 

also as part of these regulations it is now advised that the external bbq point is a new type which has a non return valve fitted. this is to stop the dangerous practice of using the bbq point as another inlet.

 

TECHNICAL DATA SHEET

 

 

 

TOURING CARAVANS & MOTORHOMES - 2004 REGULATORS & HOSES

 

All caravans produced after 1st September 2003 must comply with the European Standard EN1949. This requires a regulator to be fitted which complies with EN12864 (Annex D) which operates at 30mbar. The inlet connection specification is in the standard together with dimensions. This is to make absolutely sure that, regardless of the manufacturer of the regulator or high pressure hose, the connection between the regulator and hose assembly remains compatible and safe. This Technical Data Sheet aims to clarify the compatibility of parts including hose assemblies.

 

TRUMA UK- Regulator Pt No 01291- 01 PK or 11 PK (Inlet - M20 x 1. 5 male - EN12864)

 

 

 

 

COMAP UK/ CLESSE UK- Regulator Pt No 893AH

(Inlet - M20 x 1. 5 male - EN12864)

 

 

 

 

CAVAGNA - Regulator Pt No RE524/0010

(Inlet - M20 x 1. 5 male - EN12864)

 

 

 

PLEASE NOTE:-

 

1 The above represents Caravan regulators currently on the UK market place.

2 The inlet thread patterns on all three regulators are identical.

3 Hose assemblies and fittings must have a connection to fit M20 x 1. 5 as defined in EN12864, so all Caravan regulators and hoses are interchangeable. The M20 x1. 5 is a 'soft seat' and the hose will only be 'gas sound' when the seal (which should be supplied with the hose!) is used.

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Many thanks Mr Sheen.

 

I note your comment on bbq point but I am unable to locate any Caravan Council or Corgi advice on this. What you say sounds common sense to me, but I cannot get it through to my dealer.

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Guest mr_sheens

if a bbq point is fitted as standard by the factory, it will already have the non return valve fitted. if we fit any ourselves on any 2004 or younger caravans, we fit the new type as standard as well. we believe this is good practice and conforms to the new regs and the build spec from the manufacturers.

 

as regards your dealer, i would simply ask if what they have fitted is the same as the manufacturer does? if not request the same, making a point of saying that the manufacturer fits that particular one for a reason, you would like the same.

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Guest mr_sheens

i have now spoken to 3 different people inc bailey, truma and caravan club, and it would appear that there is not a written law which covers the bbq point, only a code of practice and manufacturers build specification.

 

EN1949 states that the only inlet for gas MUST be the bulkhead regulator.

 

the bbq point with the non return valves are being fitted by the manufacturers, and by ourselves, to ensure a safe working practice and to stop customers using the bbq point as an inlet. this is a code of pratice to enforce and comply with EN1949.

 

i hope this clears things up.

 

as regards oldtimer, given the above, although what they have fitted to your caravan is not against the law, it is not a safe working practice. you could if you decided to, use the bbq point as an inlet. at this point if you had problems, your dealer, the manufacturer and your insurance company would not want to know. this is why it is better and safer to have the new type inlet fitted.

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Once again many thanks Mr Sheens, oh how I wished I lived nearer to Lancashire.

 

I shall take up the points you have raised with my dealer, in particular the point that in accordance with EN1949 the only inlet for gas MUST be the bulkhead regulator. My caravan is January 2005 so it would appear that my dealer may have contravened the gas regulations EN1949.

 

I'l let you know how I get on.

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