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To all of you out there, try living permanently in France where most of the autoroutes are virtually deserted most of the time and driving is actually quite enjoyable most of the time!

Each time I drive in the UK these days I think to myself how totally inadequate the roads are, how very poorly they are maintained and how gaud awfully overcrowded they are. What honestly does amaze me is that there aren't a zillion percent more accidents.

 

It is always a joy to drive overseas, and you often wonder why it can't be like this at home. However most of the countries have a lot more space for the number of people that have. ..We are all a bit squashed together and it shows on the roads. .

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Guest Inner State

Whats the big rush?

 

40mph to 50 mph towing is perfectly acceptable, you wouldn't be moaning if it was a tractor, or horse box towing.

 

Or would you?

Some probably would :o

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It is always a joy to drive overseas, and you often wonder why it can't be like this at home. However most of the countries have a lot more space for the number of people that have. ..We are all a bit squashed together and it shows on the roads. .

 

Especially in the South East.

Having lived down there for 45 years, then 15 in North Yorkshire, followed by 3 in North Staffs I avoid that lower right corner of England like the plague.

The density of population and volume of vehicles is just crazy when there's so much space in the rest of the country.

 

It brings to my a Radio 4 programme I heard years ago that predicted that without intervention and mainly due to the influence of the nearness of the EU the SE would quickly expand to bursting whilst the rest of the UK declined. It certainly seems to be going that way.

Edited by Steamdrivenandy

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The reason it is dangerous, is that it lowers the capacity of the motorway and it causes frustration which in turn generates more danger as people take risks trying to find ways around lane hoggers.

 

 

Tell you what, next time you plan to drive on a motorway post your route on here and I for one will try and avoid it so that it doesn't get congested for you :P

Land Rover on SORN so not towing anything for a while

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Tell you what, next time you plan to drive on a motorway post your route on here and I for one will try and avoid it so that it doesn't get congested for you :P

 

Well you can't have it both ways. You seem to think it is OK to waste 33% of the motorway capacity provided for you by the Government, yet in this post

 

At standard rate of tax this will cost £259 in extra tax next year, or more if you are on a higher rate - flipping marvellous.

 

You moan on about tax rates going up. Or can you not see the connection?

Edited by MikeR
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Well you can't have it both ways. You seem to think it is OK to waste 33% of the motorway capacity provided for you by the Government, yet in this post

 

You moan on about tax rates going up. Or can you not see the connection?

 

I've reviewed my posts on this topic and I think you may be reading stuff between the lines. My first post was making the point about drivers who like to take on the task of giving lessons to others whilst on the road, and often in a dangerous manner. I can't find where I indicate it is OK to waste 33% of the motorway capacity - I think that's in your head not mine.

Land Rover on SORN so not towing anything for a while

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Agreed, however :-

 

1) Stay in the left hand lane until you need to overtake someone or you are approaching an entry slip road, either of these move into lane 2

2) Stay in lane 2 until someone approaches to overtake you then either move into lane 1 OR if lane 3 is available let them move into lane 3

3) If you use lane 3 go back to lane 2 when youve finished overtaking, it's safer to be in 1 or 2 than it is in 3

 

Does contain a great deal of logic, firstly how many times have you seen an accident or a near miss during lane changing?

 

J

Hi J,

I can see the logic of the above technique but there is something I don't understand. Considering that many collisions, on high speed roads and motorways, are caused when lane changing, this technique seems to encourage more of the same.

I appreciate the lane change when overtaking but is it not unnecessary when approaching an 'on slip' especially if drivers entering do know to adjust their speed to that of traffic in the lane they are joining?

It is stated that you can stay in lane 2 if somebody wants to overtake and they can use lane 3 to overtake. If that vehicle was not in lane 2 then the other vehicle would not need to change lanes.

As for staying in lane2, that may be OK for drivers who are 'spacially aware but we know in reality that many drivers never check their mirrors with the result that some drivers are held up by them which causes frustration and delay albeit only a short delay (hopefully),

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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Guest Inner State

Hi J,

I can see the logic of the above technique but there is something I don't understand. Considering that many collisions, on high speed roads and motorways, are caused when lane changing, this technique seems to encourage more of the same.

Not really, drive along in lane 1 move out to 2 for an overtake and stay there, the highway code would have you move back.

 

I appreciate the lane change when overtaking but is it not unnecessary when approaching an 'on slip' especially if drivers entering do know to adjust their speed to that of traffic in the lane they are joining?

Most drivers find it much easier and especially lorries and cars towing if lane 1 is free. Theres added safety for them they can simply join an empty lane.

 

It is stated that you can stay in lane 2 if somebody wants to overtake and they can use lane 3 to overtake. If that vehicle was not in lane 2 then the other vehicle would not need to change lanes.

Correct, on occasions I do move back if I see someone gaining on me AND lane 1 is free, if I' approaching other vehicles AND lane 3 is free then I stay put.

 

As for staying in lane2, that may be OK for drivers who are 'spacially aware but we know in reality that many drivers never check their mirrors with the result that some drivers are held up by them which causes frustration and delay albeit only a short delay (hopefully),

Regards,

Ian.

Unfortunately drivers that dont use mirrors are many in number and it happens all too often. I constantly update my mental picture of whats going on around me just in case I have some form of emergency. When doing fleet assesments the most common problems are too fast and not using mirrors.

 

J

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Mirrors are supposed to be checked every 10 seconds I was taught.

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The problem I have found on so many UK multi lane roads is the ridges in the road surface that has been caused by the exceptionally heavy HGV's using them.

 

The nearside lane is always the worst, the 2nd lane is normally a lot better and the 3rd lane normally doesn't have any of them at all.

 

When it is dry, these ridges/indentations are bad enough for lighter vehicles but when the roads are wet they can and do cause very long almost continous puddles that can and do cause aquaplaning.

 

I know personally that these indentations in the road surface can cause a trailer or caravan to hop/sway in and out of them whereas a great big heavy HGV hardly notices them at all.

 

I know a lot of people who don't use the nearside lane because of these very dangerous ridges/indentations.

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If all traffic pulled into lane one and left the second lane empty how can that reduce the capacity of the Motorway? You would have one lane full and 2 empty . Surely if you wanted to increase the capacity of the motorway it would be acheived by using all the lanes as they do in the U. S.

 

It may cause frustration to the motorist who is sitting behind in the same lane but they wouldn't be middle lane hoggers would they! I frequently hear or read comments like " I sat behind this middle lane hogger for several miles and not once did he pull in "

so which lane would the irate person be in?He wouldn't be a miidle lane hog would he!

 

II find it inconsiderate when the "I'm a good driver and know the highway code" type pulls in front of me when I'm travelling at a safe distance from the vehicles in front and behind me in lane one, forcing me to reduce my speed which in turn forces the LGV behind me to slow slightly and resulting in a concertina effect back down the Motorway,I would be much happier if they sat in the middle lane at an acceptable speed rather than weave in and out.

I believe it right to stay in the left hand lane, use the middle lane for overtaking and return to the inside lane on completion of the manoeuver,I object to the driver who cuts in and out unnecesarily when in fact he would cause less inconvenience and frustration by treating it as a prolonged overtaking manoeuver,the problem with that is they run the risk of being called a lane hogger.

With the volume of traffic on a large proportion of our motorways it just isn't possible to pull back in and leave a safe braking distance,if it is safe to do so then you should do it,if it means you cause others to alter their speed then it isn't safe!

 

If I am being stupid and arrogant by voicing my opinion then I am guilty as charged, I am a firm believer in free speech and believe that open forums are a place where one can express an opinion without being abused just because one doesn't agree with others,perhaps I am wrong on that as well!

 

knarf

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If I am being stupid and arrogant by voicing my opinion then I am guilty as charged, I am a firm believer in free speech and believe that open forums are a place where one can express an opinion without being abused just because one doesn't agree with others,perhaps I am wrong on that as well!

 

knarf

 

Hi,

That just about sums it up and we are all giving opinions and knowledge and if others don't agree then that is all part of the discussion process.

 

Regarding the US system where drivers use any lane they want to and can overtake/undertake (illegal by the way in some States) it is a pain in the butt. I found occasions when I had to move from lane to lane to make progress. There was also more than one occasion when four vehicles travelling around the same speed were side by side and nobody could pass,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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Not really, drive along in lane 1 move out to 2 for an overtake and stay there, the highway code would have you move back.

 

 

Most drivers find it much easier and especially lorries and cars towing if lane 1 is free. Theres added safety for them they can simply join an empty lane.

 

 

Correct, on occasions I do move back if I see someone gaining on me AND lane 1 is free, if I' approaching other vehicles AND lane 3 is free then I stay put.

 

 

Unfortunately drivers that dont use mirrors are many in number and it happens all too often. I constantly update my mental picture of whats going on around me just in case I have some form of emergency. When doing fleet assesments the most common problems are too fast and not using mirrors.

 

J

 

Hi J,

If you were taking your LGV driving test and pulled into lane 2 for no good reason I believe it is a fail.

I have also seen the aftermath of collisions caused by this due to rank bad driving. It shouldn't happen but it does. Is it not easier for those who tow and large vehicle drivers to stay in lane 1 rather than changing lanes?

Of course if those drivers who cause collisions,while carrying out such manouvres, used their mirrors then the innocents might have a chance and the ideas that you have posted would be fine. It is just a fact that lane changing causes accidents so maybe we should keep it to a minimum. Many many times drivers have said that they didn't see the driver that they came together with, because they 'just came from nowhere'. my reply in my mind was, Oh no they didn't they were overtaking at the time you pulled out you simply didn't look for them.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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This discussion has reminded me of two things that the Expert Driving Course instructor told me.

 

One has been mentioned already about moving out of Lane 1, if it is safe to do so, as you approach a slip road onto the motorway. As said earlier this gives the entering traffic a much easier time but apparently junctions are one of the main accident points on motorways and getting into Lane 2 helps avoid trouble.

 

The other thing is that you should endeavour never to run 3 or 4 abreast on 3 or 4 lane roads. Basically because if someone swings across the road you'll have nowhere to go. It's surprising how alert it keeps you trying to make sure you never get into such a situation, constantly assessing how the traffic situation is developing around you. You certainly don't doze off or switch into automatic pilot.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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This discussion has reminded me of two things that the Expert Driving Course instructor told me.

 

One has been mentioned already about moving out of Lane 1, if it is safe to do so, as you approach a slip road onto the motorway. As said earlier this gives the entering traffic a much easier time but apparently junctions are one of the main accident points on motorways and getting into Lane 2 helps avoid trouble.

 

 

Hi Andy

From memory, I can only think of one incident, I was invoved with, caused by traffic entering a motorway from a sliproad yet many more that were caused on the motorway/high speed road by lane changing adjascent to the 'on slip.' This is only in my experience so there's nothing scientific sbout my thoughts, maybe your advisor had the statistics on such incidents.

Of course it is important to keep a sense of perspective on this and motorway accidents a relatively few so most people will not ever see such incidents never mind suffering the consequences.

I had my near miss a couple of months ago when I was boxed in in lane 2, LGV in front, LGV behind, car to my left in lane 1 who decided to move across to let a car onto the motorway, luckily the triple warning horns which sounded alerted him, he very nearly contacted the LGV in front and was lucky.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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Ian,

I think 'if it is safe to do so' covers it and as I recall the instructor did make the point that the manoeuvre should happen well before the slip road and not as a knee jerk as you reach it.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Hi J,

If you were taking your LGV driving test and pulled into lane 2 for no good reason I believe it is a fail.

I have also seen the aftermath of collisions caused by this due to rank bad driving. It shouldn't happen but it does. Is it not easier for those who tow and large vehicle drivers to stay in lane 1 rather than changing lanes?

Of course if those drivers who cause collisions,while carrying out such manouvres, used their mirrors then the innocents might have a chance and the ideas that you have posted would be fine. It is just a fact that lane changing causes accidents so maybe we should keep it to a minimum. Many many times drivers have said that they didn't see the driver that they came together with, because they 'just came from nowhere'. my reply in my mind was, Oh no they didn't they were overtaking at the time you pulled out you simply didn't look for them.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Never mind your HGV test you would also fail your B+E test as this now incorporates motorway driving.

 

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

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Ian,

I think 'if it is safe to do so' covers it and as I recall the instructor did make the point that the manoeuvre should happen well before the slip road and not as a knee jerk as you reach it.

 

That's certainly true but some don't seem to understand the concept. I never ceased to be amazed at how many drivers think that the cars in lane 1 should give way to those joining the motorway and if they are changing lanes the vehicle to their right should give way!

I'm afraid that there are far too many people who think driving is a nuisance and just want to get from A to B as quickly as possible and give no thought to their driving standards after they have passed their test. mind you I think we are all pushing against an open door on here as if members can be bothered to contribute I suspect they give some thought to their driving standards,

Regards,

Ian.

 

Never mind your HGV test you would also fail your B+E test as this now incorporates motorway driving.

 

 

Hi,

Thanks for that it is good to know that testing is now taking in motorway driving,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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That's certainly true but some don't seem to understand the concept. I never ceased to be amazed at how many drivers think that the cars in lane 1 should give way to those joining the motorway and if they are changing lanes the vehicle to their right should give way!

 

I thought it was just me noticing these people "barging" onto(and off) the motorway.

 

If it is safe to do so, I will move over to lane 2 to let cars onto the motorway or move over to lane 3 let them out of lane 1 to overtake. Unfortunately you cannot always move over, that does not stop them from barging in or gesticulating at you, as they have had to adjust their speed/intentions.

 

I assume it is the same people that "barge" through streets with cars parked on one side. I was always taught that if cars are parked on your side of the road that you give way, as you need to use the other side of the road to make progress. If appears the rule these days is whoever gets there first. Unbelievably it was a driving instructor that told me that was what he taught his pupils to do!

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Hi Andy

From memory, I can only think of one incident, I was invoved with, caused by traffic entering a motorway from a sliproad yet many more that were caused on the motorway/high speed road by lane changing adjascent to the 'on slip.' This is only in my experience so there's nothing scientific sbout my thoughts, maybe your advisor had the statistics on such incidents.

Of course it is important to keep a sense of perspective on this and motorway accidents a relatively few so most people will not ever see such incidents never mind suffering the consequences.

 

I was taught NOT to change lanes and that the traffic joining should merge in. This was on two separate courses by ex-Cheshire Police RPO instructors. It was considered more dangerous to change lanes.

 

Never mind your HGV test you would also fail your B+E test as this now incorporates motorway driving.

 

And a 'test' of your driving standards by the CPS when considering a charge of careless or dangerous driving is 'If you did that on a driving test, would you fail?'

Has the revolution finally begun?

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Guest Inner State

Mirrors are supposed to be checked every 10 seconds I was taught.

There is absolutely no set time, 10 seconds in a town environment or indeed on the M25 in rush hour definately would not be anywhere near enough, consider on a motorway 70 mph is 105' per second so you wouldn't have checked whats going on behind for over 1000' You should check your mirror appropriately, you need to know developing situations both in front and behind.

 

J

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Guest Inner State

Hi J,

If you were taking your LGV driving test and pulled into lane 2 for no good reason I believe it is a fail.

I have also seen the aftermath of collisions caused by this due to rank bad driving. It shouldn't happen but it does. Is it not easier for those who tow and large vehicle drivers to stay in lane 1 rather than changing lanes?

HGV test and ROSPA would see it as good anticipation that there may be traffic joining or indeed if there was traffic joining to give them a lane.

 

Of course if those drivers who cause collisions,while carrying out such manouvres, used their mirrors then the innocents might have a chance and the ideas that you have posted would be fine. It is just a fact that lane changing causes accidents so maybe we should keep it to a minimum. Many many times drivers have said that they didn't see the driver that they came together with, because they 'just came from nowhere'. my reply in my mind was, Oh no they didn't they were overtaking at the time you pulled out you simply didn't look for them.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Agreed, all done with mirrors. It's amazing how many near misses occur when a vehicle is changing from 3 to 2 at the same time as one is changing from 1 to 2. I teach my students on PassPlus to constantly scan the mirrors on lane changing i. e. left when moving left right when moving right. One of students who was petrfied about motorways was really settling into the motorway pace after about 90 minutes of training when that exact situation arose as we moved from 3 to 2, I had seen the van starting to move from 1 to 2 because I could look around, I watched my student and she spotted the van in the mirror. The really interesting aspect was a motorbike overtaking us when we were halfway across, I was ready to grab the wheel but my student just stayed in her position straddling the lanes which allowed us to safely pass the van and not endanger the motorbike, It was a good bit of driving, she was fully aware of what was going on behind, she knew the bike was passing and took the correct action. Excellent for a 17 year old newly qualified driver.

 

J

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Guest Inner State

Never mind your HGV test you would also fail your B+E test as this now incorporates motorway driving.

Absolute garbage. If youre on a motorway and someone is on the slip road why in Gods name would you be failed for anticipating they need to join, moving into a clear lane to allow them to do so safely?

 

Ridiculous.

 

J

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Guest Inner State

I was taught NOT to change lanes and that the traffic joining should merge in. This was on two separate courses by ex-Cheshire Police RPO instructors. It was considered more dangerous to change lanes.

I find this sort of comment beggars belief.

So scenario lane 1 busy with traffic all doing 70 mph all keeping 315' apart, lane 2 empty and vehicles coming down the slip road, your method means they would have to stop at the end of the slip road, how can that possibly be safer or more convenient? I accept that they wouldn't all be 315' apart, most would be closer thereby making the situation worse. Maybe it's a good thing that theyre ex-Cheshire Police RPO instructors if this is the sort of info they passed on. ;)

 

And a 'test' of your driving standards by the CPS when considering a charge of careless or dangerous driving is 'If you did that on a driving test, would you fail?'

Careless or Dangerous driving would of course get a fail on a test.

 

People need to think these situations through more carefully, the highway code contains a lot of good information that IF applied with common sense will result in safer roads. The difficulty is common sense isn't so common and it's a very grey area.

 

 

J

Edited by Inner State
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it clearly states in the highway code keep left except for overtaking i have witnessed on several occasions early hrs on the m11 the police

pulling over vehicles that are just sat in lane 2 on full beam with lane one empty the new upgraded extra lane sections m25 is another place to witness this style of driving lane 1 & 2 empty and 3&4 with a few cars

 

clowns joining the motorway who can not use the length of the slip road to build up speed to merge

you move over to lane 2 then they sit along side you and hold you out there why?

Edited by freddie
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