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John_b_45

Over Weight, Under Powered Or Simply Inept?

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Why is it considered dangerous to drive in the centre lane of a 3 lane motorway at or slightly above the speed limit of 70,or is it just because the highway code says it?

I reckon the ones who moan about it are the ones who like to drive at 80+ MPH in the centre lane.

I have no problem with anyone driving at the correct limit anyone wishing to exceed the limit can use the outside lane to overtake.

KNARF

 

It is only potentially dangerous if other road users react improperly to such an act. However the highway code, the rules and guidelines all safe drivers should follow specifically instruct that the outer lanes should only be used for overtaking. So it does not matter what speed you are doing if the inside lane is clear that is where you should be. If you can't move in to the left hand lane without having to immediately start the manouver to overtake the next car then it may be reasonable to remain out.

 

As drivers we depend on others knowing the highway code and driving according to those rules as well as we do. Why ignore that one just because it suites

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. . because it's not your job to decide what other people should and should not do

 

Unashamedly stolen from here

http://www. howmotorwayswork. co. uk/arguments. htm

The site is written in a jokey style, however some good points

 

<snip>

 

Classic "Middle Lane" arguments

 

Next time you're down the pub arguing with someone as to why they should use the left lane, point them to this page. Here are a list of the classic idiot's middle lane arguments and their appropriate response.

 

1. If I'm doing 70mph then anyone overtaking me is breaking the law.

 

I should point out first and foremost that overall speed is not the issue with lane discipline. It's relative speed that determines which lane you should use and there should be no arguments containing a specific speed as the focus point. I'll let this one go and argue with the 70mph comment:

 

Consider that the motorway is full with traffic in the middle and right hand lanes, all doing a nice, safe, brainless 70mph as described in the argument. The idiots in the middle lane refuse to use the left lane because "anyone overtaking me is breaking the law so it's OK to be in the middle lane", even if it is clear. As a result the whole motorway system is at two-thirds capacity if no one uses the left lane. That point alone should be enough.

 

 

Secondary points include: It's not an individual motorist's responsibility to uphold the law - that's the job of the Police. No two speedos read the same so there will be constant changes in speed above and below the 70mph in question and therefore the argument is flawed right from the word go. The naivity of the 70mph statement is also massively embarrassing - people do speed on the motorway whether it's 5mph or 25mph, live with this fact and don't pretend that you can argue your middle lane stupidity by resorting to this sort of selfish attitude.

 

The fact is that you use the left lane unless overtaking and it really is as simple as that. It's ironic that the simplest of rules is incomprehensible for the simplest of brains.

 

2. I stay in the middle lane because I don't want to keep changing lanes as this is dangerous and pointless most of the time if I have to keep coming back out to overtake slow traffic.

 

Changing lanes is not dangerous. Changing lanes without knowing what is around you is dangerous. If you don't know what's around you then you should call it a day and take a bus instead. Not changing lanes because it is pointless shows bad discipline and a complete lack of respect for other road users. We share the roads - so should you.

 

 

3. If I use the left hand lane then I get blocked in.

 

Shame on you! If you get blocked in you don't deserve to be able to overtake. Most road users can vary their speed to fit into appropriate gaps in traffic in each lane when they need to overtake. If the only way you can get into another lane is to stay at a constant speed and force your way in then you confirm everything that is written in this site. Sad but strangely satisfying at the same time.

 

4. If your car is in the centre lane and there is an incident where avoiding action is required then you have two escape options, to either the left or right.

 

Don't make me laugh. You're just as likely to hit an incident in the middle lane as any other lane, maybe even more likely. Will you never use the right hand lane because this decreases the escape routes? Ridiculous. In the left lane you could use the hard shoulder to escape the incident.

 

5. Lorries tramline the left lane and this can throw a car to one side or the other, which is dangerous.

 

To begin with, there can't be more than 5% of all left lanes that are tramlined in the UK. If it's so bad then move to the middle once you notice that the road is tramlined. You can also straddle the bad tramlines or drive in them without issues. Calling them dangerous is ridiculous and if you can't handle surface undulations then don't drive at all.

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One problem which has produced the amount of journeys on the road for HGV is stock management. Large retailers like Tescos, Sainsburys et al no longer have large stock rooms. To do so would result in significant amounts of value sitting effectively idle in all their stores. The only way this can be achieved is regular, dependable and frequent deliveries to stores both from central warehouses and from independant suppliers.

 

This reduces costs and reflected both in the reduced prices to us the consumer and increased profit for the retailer, the downside is the increased HGV traffic due to multidrop loading. One small shop near me is one of a chain fed from a distribution depot some 20 miles away but is on a section of a main road leading in to town which is narrow. Every few days a full sized artic sits outside the store dropping off 10-20 stock cages and picking up empty ones causing absolute chaos every time, even worse if it is at school time. They have to have such frequent drops because the store has no stock room whatsoever. I don't think they should have been given planning permission for the design but there are no regulations preventing it.

 

As I said previously rail is the real solution but the system we have now would not be capable of it. However I fail to see why a single HGV needs to leave Felixstowe docks for example. Everything that goes through there should be transferred to rail and shipped to a number of more centralised depots up the middle of britain.

 

I also don't think that unless the goods are perishable stores should be allowed to refuse deliveries if it is going to result in additional journeys. There could be a penalty perhaps to maintain schedules but at the moment refusals just generate more costs and more traffic.

 

:goodpost:

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Unashamedly stolen from here

http://www. howmotorw. ..k/arguments. htm

The site is written in a jokey style, however some good points

 

<snip>

 

Classic "Middle Lane" arguments

 

Next time you're down the pub arguing with someone as to why they should use the left lane, point them to this page. Here are a list of the classic idiot's middle lane arguments and their appropriate response.

 

1. If I'm doing 70mph then anyone overtaking me is breaking the law.

 

I should point out first and foremost that overall speed is not the issue with lane discipline. It's relative speed that determines which lane you should use and there should be no arguments containing a specific speed as the focus point. I'll let this one go and argue with the 70mph comment:

 

Consider that the motorway is full with traffic in the middle and right hand lanes, all doing a nice, safe, brainless 70mph as described in the argument. The idiots in the middle lane refuse to use the left lane because "anyone overtaking me is breaking the law so it's OK to be in the middle lane", even if it is clear. As a result the whole motorway system is at two-thirds capacity if no one uses the left lane. That point alone should be enough.

 

 

Secondary points include: It's not an individual motorist's responsibility to uphold the law - that's the job of the Police. No two speedos read the same so there will be constant changes in speed above and below the 70mph in question and therefore the argument is flawed right from the word go. The naivity of the 70mph statement is also massively embarrassing - people do speed on the motorway whether it's 5mph or 25mph, live with this fact and don't pretend that you can argue your middle lane stupidity by resorting to this sort of selfish attitude.

 

The fact is that you use the left lane unless overtaking and it really is as simple as that. It's ironic that the simplest of rules is incomprehensible for the simplest of brains.

 

2. I stay in the middle lane because I don't want to keep changing lanes as this is dangerous and pointless most of the time if I have to keep coming back out to overtake slow traffic.

 

Changing lanes is not dangerous. Changing lanes without knowing what is around you is dangerous. If you don't know what's around you then you should call it a day and take a bus instead. Not changing lanes because it is pointless shows bad discipline and a complete lack of respect for other road users. We share the roads - so should you.

 

 

3. If I use the left hand lane then I get blocked in.

 

Shame on you! If you get blocked in you don't deserve to be able to overtake. Most road users can vary their speed to fit into appropriate gaps in traffic in each lane when they need to overtake. If the only way you can get into another lane is to stay at a constant speed and force your way in then you confirm everything that is written in this site. Sad but strangely satisfying at the same time.

 

4. If your car is in the centre lane and there is an incident where avoiding action is required then you have two escape options, to either the left or right.

 

Don't make me laugh. You're just as likely to hit an incident in the middle lane as any other lane, maybe even more likely. Will you never use the right hand lane because this decreases the escape routes? Ridiculous. In the left lane you could use the hard shoulder to escape the incident.

 

5. Lorries tramline the left lane and this can throw a car to one side or the other, which is dangerous.

 

To begin with, there can't be more than 5% of all left lanes that are tramlined in the UK. If it's so bad then move to the middle once you notice that the road is tramlined. You can also straddle the bad tramlines or drive in them without issues. Calling them dangerous is ridiculous and if you can't handle surface undulations then don't drive at all.

 

 

:goodpost:

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Guest Inner State

There are a lot of people on here that are simply recalling the highway code without applying any common sense. More years ago than I care to remember I did the IAM test, my training for that was done by a police driving instructor and his advice was this:-

1) Stay in the left hand lane until you need to overtake someone or you are approaching an entry slip road, either of these move into lane 2

2) Stay in lane 2 until someone approaches to overtake you then either move into lane 1 OR if lane 3 is available let them move into lane 3

3) If you use lane 3 go back to lane 2 when youve finished overtaking, it's safer to be in 1 or 2 than it is in 3

 

The most dangerous part of motorway driving apart from joining / leaving is changing lane, there are many idiots that have read the highway code that like to teach lessons by swerving in front and going across all 3 lanes only to swerve out again, they seem to forget the appropriate way to change lanes, the stopping distances and general etiquette.

 

And to those of you who call lane 3 the fast lane, get a life, we all know it's the willy waiving BMW drivers lane. :D

 

J

Edited by Inner State

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Just to chuck in additional bits, on the continent, yes, there are sections of "motorways" where lorries are not allowed to overtake, normally two lane bits

 

Hi,

We also have a number of those in this country,

Regards,

Ian.

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There are a lot of people on here that are simply recalling the highway code without applying any common sense. More years ago than I care to remember I did the IAM test, my training for that was done by a police driving instructor and his advice was this:-

1) Stay in the left hand lane until you need to overtake someone or you are approaching an entry slip road, either of these move into lane 2

2) Stay in lane 2 until someone approaches to overtake you then either move into lane 1 OR if lane 3 is available let them move into lane 3

3) If you use lane 3 go back to lane 2 when youve finished overtaking, it's safer to be in 1 or 2 than it is in 3

 

The most dangerous part of motorway driving apart from joining / leaving is changing lane, there are many idiots that have read the highway code that like to teach lessons by swerving in front and going across all 3 lanes only to swerve out again, they seem to forget the appropriate way to change lanes, the stopping distances and general etiquette.

 

And to those of you who call lane 3 the fast lane, get a life, we all know it's the willy waiving BMW drivers lane. :D

 

J

 

:goodpost: Especially the last comment :)

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There are some good common sense post here but without reading them all, HGV's get best MPG with 'pedal to the metal' letting the governor control the speed, when your getting 9 point something to the gallon at 150p a gallon. ..it matters a LOT!

 

So give the guys a break and don't hinder their progress, you have far more ability to vary your speed than they do

 

Hi,

Now is that not the way to go? Everybody working together to keep traffic moving, yes LGVs can be a nuiscance to some but why make it personal to the driver if they are driving legally? OK there are some who should be ashamed at their driving standards but I strongly suspect that there is, proportionally, more car drivers who are in the same category.

Once again I will say that unless you have driven an LGV, rode a motorbike, driven an emergency vehicle etc etc then there is, understandably, a lack of understanding of their problems. Not forgetting of course the other drivers who don't understand the caravanners driving problems,

Regards,

Ian.

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Hit the quote button before I read the rest of the posts so Perhaps I am as big an idiot as you! There is no such thing as a fast lane on a motorway! They are for overtaking, so keep left if is clear!

 

I think you may have misunderstood who I was referring to as the idiot. But I possibly may have been reclassified as "lazy or stupid" now anyway. :D

Edited by onewheelonmywagon

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Hi,

Now is that not the way to go? Everybody working together to keep traffic moving, yes LGVs can be a nuiscance to some but why make it personal to the driver if they are driving legally? OK there are some who should be ashamed at their driving standards but I strongly suspect that there is, proportionally, more car drivers who are in the same category.

Once again I will say that unless you have driven an LGV, rode a motorbike, driven an emergency vehicle etc etc then there is, understandably, a lack of understanding of their problems. Not forgetting of course the other drivers who don't understand the caravanners driving problems,

Regards,

Ian.

 

Please also appreciate that if you are hurtling down the road in your brand new 5 series at over 150mph, late for that all important sales lunch, you need a little stopping distance and you cannot have people in ordinary cars just pulling out and slowing you down. ..

I think we need a special lane for company car drivers. .. Who's with me?

Edited by dreadly

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According to ROSPA, Quote" It is a fact that when a vehicle’s speed is doubled the braking distance quadruples. It is essential that the gap is quadrupled! This information also needs to be applied to the gap in front, if a large goods vehicle is following closely behind."

It takes a fully laden LGV 4 times the distance to stop at 56 MPH as a car doing the same speed. At 56mph a car will take app 70m to stop whereas an LGV will take app 300m,if you apply the recommendation that you allow the same distance in front, that equates to app 600m. That means that there must only be app 3 HGVs per mile for you to safely cut back in between them!That would mean there need to be no more than 180 HGVs between Exeter and Bristol at any one time

I regularly drive between Bristol and Exeter and normally you would be lucky to get 100m between HGVs and on a Friday afternoon when all the Grockles are travelling to Pastyland with their caravans 50m would be more likely. And before you all get upset I have a caravan.

If the M/Way is not busy then it is correct to drive on the inside lane,this however is becoming virtually impossible.

I am always amused when this topic is raised and you get the self righteous posting the rules of the road, yet when I am driving to and from Bristol I estimate 90% of motorists stick to the middle lane the ones who drop back in are the exception.

KNARF

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That just means 90% of driver are as selfish as you are. That does not make you right.

 

 

Steve W

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It really makes my day when some individual passes me when I'm in the middle lane at 65mph (solo) and kindly demonstrates how I should rapidly veer into the SLOW lane for 100 yards and then pull back out into the middle lane to pass the next lumbering HGV. They must belong to IAM - no not the Institute of Advanced Motorists, I AM an idiot.

 

Some don't know that the 3rd lane is the FAST lane and like to zip down the middle lane at 88mph, or more. :wacko:

The second lane is the overtaking lane, and the third lane is the ovtaking lane, no lane on the motorwy is officially designated as the fast lane.

 

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I am always amused when this topic is raised and you get the self righteous posting the rules of the road, yet when I am driving to and from Bristol I estimate 90% of motorists stick to the middle lane the ones who drop back in are the exception.

KNARF

Hi Knarf,

It is so damned tiresome when people post the truth that nobody wants to hear, though I do not sit in anything but lane one when done overtaking. However I do tend to travel too close to the vehicle in front as well as going through very tight gaps between moving vehicles, I say that I know what I am doing but Jacki says that it can frighten other road users which is fair comment.

So I am doing my best to curb my bad habits but those two will need to wait in the 'rectification queue' behind the other issues that I have while driving. The reason that I mention those two issues is because I consider them to be dangerous and they are something which has recently become habitual.

Oh yes another fault that I used to have was that I didn't thnk that I had any faults :D,

Regards,

Ian.

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"That just means 90% of driver are as selfish as you are. That does not make you right".

 

 

I didn't say I did it, if possible I pull back in, I did say I don't have a problem with others doing it if they maintain a reasonable speed and asked the question why is it so dangerous? But apparently you don't appear to be able to answer my question and feel the need to resort to schoolboy name calling.

KNARF

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Keep it civil guys! or the mods are going to get out the keys. ....

 

I am sure most of see things on the road we don't agree with, lane discipline being one, I hate losing my braking distance each time some sod dives into it. However I admit I am not the most perfect driver, just ask SWMBO. Knowing it at least gives me the opportunity to change.

 

It is a more worrying when somebody actually thinks they are right and the highway code is wrong. How can I know what dumb thing they are going to do because they are using a different set of rules to me? Even the drivers in the centre of Paris or Rome are following some sort of rules, just not ones I understand.

 

We are going to see middle lane campers for a long time as you need logic in an argument. "I am right and stuff every one else" does not contain a great deal of logic.

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I just go slower than everyone else and stay in lane 1.

 

Anyway, I think every HGV driver in the country should take the first 2 weeks in August off and see what happens. I mean the tanker drivers never even stopped work and some areas of the country were almost crippled.

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To all of you out there, try living permanently in France where most of the autoroutes are virtually deserted most of the time and driving is actually quite enjoyable most of the time!

Each time I drive in the UK these days I think to myself how totally inadequate the roads are, how very poorly they are maintained and how gaud awfully overcrowded they are. What honestly does amaze me is that there aren't a zillion percent more accidents.

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Guest Inner State

We are going to see middle lane campers for a long time as you need logic in an argument. "I am right and stuff every one else" does not contain a great deal of logic.

Agreed, however :-

 

1) Stay in the left hand lane until you need to overtake someone or you are approaching an entry slip road, either of these move into lane 2

2) Stay in lane 2 until someone approaches to overtake you then either move into lane 1 OR if lane 3 is available let them move into lane 3

3) If you use lane 3 go back to lane 2 when youve finished overtaking, it's safer to be in 1 or 2 than it is in 3

 

Does contain a great deal of logic, firstly how many times have you seen an accident or a near miss during lane changing? Have you ever seen a cats eye rip a tyre open (rare I agree but I have seen it) and as for not staying in lane 3 it does give a little more potential space in the event of a problem or vehicle coming through the barrier.

 

By following the above, whilst not quite the highway code does not inconvenience anyone and does, even if only slightly, enhance safety. So whilst I dont consider "I am right and stuff every one else" I do think theres good logic and I don't inconvenience anybody else with what I do, why does this apparently cause you such a problem?

 

Furthermore, to use the bible it would be ok for me to drive miles and miles, never pulling over whilst towing, yet being the considerate driver, I either pull over or slow down to let others pass when on ordinary roads, maybe I should stick to the highway code and keep on driving, especially if followed by a Coachman Amara 520/4 2003 dragged along by a LR Freelander 2 XS SD4 2. 2 Auto Indus Silver and containing Border Collie and ES Spaniel (with nothing between its ears) :unsure:

 

J

Edited by Inner State

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its not just motorways, hgv`s or caravanners, travelling home form work this morning, 60 mph limit, sat at 60 mph, clear straight road and theres a dork in a car sat on my back bumper . ***** , overtake or back off !!!!

the whole speed thing is a joke . the same people who whine on about the cost of fuel are the same ones who screw the b%lls of their cars and constantly speed, usually the same type who whine when they got caught by a speed camera also.

when im towing im usually travelling at a similar speed to hgv`s, if im holding one up i will slow to let it ease pass . im not a great one for 60+ on the motorway, prefer the leisurely economical approach personally. if it annoys others, TOUGH !!!

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its not just motorways, hgv`s or caravanners, travelling home form work this morning, 60 mph limit, sat at 60 mph, clear straight road and theres a dork in a car sat on my back bumper . ***** , overtake or back off !!!!

the whole speed thing is a joke . the same people who whine on about the cost of fuel are the same ones who screw the b%lls of their cars and constantly speed, usually the same type who whine when they got caught by a speed camera also.

when im towing im usually travelling at a similar speed to hgv`s, if im holding one up i will slow to let it ease pass . im not a great one for 60+ on the motorway, prefer the leisurely economical approach personally. if it annoys others, TOUGH !!!

 

Does this bring us back to my point when starting the topic!

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Does this bring us back to my point when starting the topic!

 

No.

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"That just means 90% of driver are as selfish as you are. That does not make you right".

 

 

I didn't say I did it, if possible I pull back in, I did say I don't have a problem with others doing it if they maintain a reasonable speed and asked the question why is it so dangerous? But apparently you don't appear to be able to answer my question and feel the need to resort to schoolboy name calling.

KNARF

 

 

The reason it is dangerous, is that it lowers the capacity of the motorway and it causes frustration which in turn generates more danger as people take risks trying to find ways around lane hoggers.

 

As for name calling, I say it as I see it. i consider your attitude to be stupid and arrogant. If that is childish name calling so be it.

 

 

Steve W

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No.

 

You weren't driving on the A17 last Saturday were you? Limping along with a caravan in tow? :):angry::)

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Whats the big rush?

 

40mph to 50 mph towing is perfectly acceptable, you wouldn't be moaning if it was a tractor, or horse box towing.

 

Or would you?

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