dazkim Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hi all Well i am now in the market for my new second hand caravan at last. We would like a fixed bed model and we have found a van we like at a price we like but is our car up to the job what are your views. our car is a ford mondeo 2. 0 tdci zetec s model which weighs in at 1505kg the book says max tow weight of 1800 kg . . the van we have seen weighs in at 1274 unladen . now there is only two of us and we travel light we dont use awnings or any heavy items like that so what do you think is the car up to the job or would it be to risky going above the 85% tow weight. your veiws are welcomed. cheers dazkim <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb1701 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hi all Well i am now in the market for my new second hand caravan at last. We would like a fixed bed model and we have found a van we like at a price we like but is our car up to the job what are your views. our car is a ford mondeo 2. 0 tdci zetec s model which weighs in at 1505kg the book says max tow weight of 1800 kg . . the van we have seen weighs in at 1274 unladen . now there is only two of us and we travel light we dont use awnings or any heavy items like that so what do you think is the car up to the job or would it be to risky going above the 85% tow weight. your veiws are welcomed. cheers dazkim <_< 37130[/snapback] Hi there, you don't say the weight of the vans mtplm, going on the unladen weight you'll be just fine, but even your gas bottles, spare wheel will soon add to this, then when start by adding just basic items like tv's, awnings etc, if i were you i would minus the unladen weight from the mtplm and then work out how heavy all your goods are and be a bit generous then you should be close to your real towing weight, but Mondeys are good towers and my last car was alot lighter than my Mondeo with my current caravan and i towed reasonably comfortably at around 94% but it feels even better now i,m at about 80ish% , good luck with your choice's Coachman Genius & Mazda BT50 TS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klarky Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 what make of van is it,if its 1274 miro then the mptlm is going to be about 1450-1500 i would think which is within the capabilities of the max tow but is a bit near to the 100% of the cars kbw (1450 IS 96%)1500 A LITTLE HIGHER nissan xtrail tekna 173 . ....SERIES 2 UNICORN VALENCIA 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazkim Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 HI THE MAX LADEN WEIGHT OF THE VAN IS 1500KG SO I KNOW THE PERCENTAGE WOULD BE HIGH BUS AS I SAY WE DONT USE AWNINGS AND WE DO TEND TO LOAD THE CAR MORE THAN THE VAN CHEERS DAZKIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I'm sure the CC used to do info about rough weights of equipment etc but I can't find it online. Anyway, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere to allow about 100kgs for initial things you'd take away (TV, crockery etc) and then 25kgs per person so for 2 people allow about 150kgs on top of the unladed weight. That'd take you to roughly 1425kgs laden but, t be safe you should weigh everything you'd put in the caravan - and remember to add the weight of the mover, if it has one. I knew my van to car weight ratio would be high so I weighed everything I put in my van and kept it on an Excel spreadsheet. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iank Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The 85% rule is only a guideline and if you are an experienced tower there should be no problem unless you load up the caravan to the maximum. I towed a caravan with a MTPLM of 1650 kg behind by Volvo S80 no problem. The Volvo and the Mondeo weigh approximately the same. Don't forget when you get into the Mondeo with a full tank of petrol youj will be within normal safety parameters. Go for it and enjoy yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.b Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hi Daz Knowing the experience you have had towing only one person can answer this. Personally I think that one person has got a little doubt in his mind. Knowing yourself, Kim and of course Tigger, the way you caravan etc. it will be close but I think you will be ok. Regards Pete Volvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazkim Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Thanks all As you say pete i have got a little doubt in my mine not that the car wouldent cope but i do like to be in the green of the 85% and not in the red and its that doubt i was hoping to get removed by asking the question. cheers all dazkim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 When I was choosing my car/caravan I went through a similar dilemma. I drew up a table comparing the cars kerb weight to the caravans MIRO & MTPLM to assess what % I was likely to be towing at. This ranged from 80%-98% As the van is a four berth there is a whopping 285kg for additional items. As there were only going to be 2 of use ever using the van it was fair to say I would be towing at somewhere between these figures I then drew up a list of accessories carried in the van and added there respective weights after consulting the Caravan clubs list Adding an allowance for clothing I came to a 120kg for personal equipment which give me a ration of 87% I suggest you do a similar exercise it should ease your mind. As a foot note the caravan tows superbly stable and doesn’t feel like the tail waging the dog. The secret of stability is getting the nose weight right! I have attached the tables for your interest. The items with no weight against are carried in the car. TABLE 1 CAR AND CARAVAN WEIGHTS Caravan MIRO 1146 Kg 80% van/kerb weight Caravan MTPLM 1431 Kg 98% van/kerb weight Nose weight at 7% MIRO 80 Kg Nose weight at 7% MTPLM 100 Kg Nose weight Limit 75 Kg Car Kerb weight 1450 Kg Maximum Towing limit 1500 Kg Personal Equipment 120kg Actual MTPLM 87% TABLE 2 PERSONAL EQUIPTMENT Eurovent Chamonix Porch Awning 20kg Breathable Groundsheet 2. 4m x 2. 3m 2kg PVC Groundsheet 3kg Rock Pegs 5kg Peg Bag 1kg Lump Hammer 2kg 40 litre Aqua Roll 3kg Aquaroll Bag 1kg Wastemaster 2kg Wastemaster Bag 1kg Mains Hookup Bag 1kg Mains Hookup Reel 4kg Television Aerial 1kg Television pole 1kg Aerial Lead 25m 1kg Caravan Jack 3kg Stack Pads 1kg Jack Pads 1kg Gas Cylinder 6kg 0kg Gas Cylinder 3. 9kg 0kg Hitch Lock 0kg Wheel Clamp 0kg Leisure Battery 18kg Water Container 0kg Roll up Water Container 1kg Portable Television 10kg Portable Television Bag 1kg Quilt 3kg Quilt Cover 1kg Pillows 1kg Hoover 2kg Plates cups etc 2kg Saucepans 1kg Frying Pans 2kg Cooking utensils 1kg Cutlery 2kg TOTAL 98kg ADDITIONAL ITEMS 22kg TOTAL 120kg Trust the above is of help Desperado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb1701 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The 85% rule is only a guideline and if you are an experienced tower there should be no problem unless you load up the caravan to the maximum. I towed a caravan with a MTPLM of 1650 kg behind by Volvo S80 no problem. The Volvo and the Mondeo weigh approximately the same. Don't forget when you get into the Mondeo with a full tank of petrol youj will be within normal safety parameters. Go for it and enjoy yourself! 37144[/snapback] Not to discredit anything you say, but if you go above the 100% margin can the police stop you ? as a unsafe outfit, but i maybe wrong so please don't take this the wrong way Coachman Genius & Mazda BT50 TS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigelywoo Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Desperado I note on your list you have gas at 6kg and 3. 9kg. Is the cylinder weight included in the additional items? Lunar Zenith Citroen C5 2. 2 HDI Citroen Picasso 1. 6 HDI. , Vauxhall Vectra Design 150 bhp Soon to be, 2014 Sprite Major 4 sr. With ATC. The Internet has had no effect on my life whatsoever. com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossa Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The simple fact is that if you adhere to the 85% guideline (and yes, I know it's not a rule) you will be less likely to have a snake. Also, if you are unfortunate to experience a snake but are within the guideline, you will be more likely to survive it intact. I just don't know why people even try to justify going over the 85% guideline or kid themselves that everything will be OK. In my opinion, the 85% guideline is perhaps the most important safety advice when considering towing a caravan. Yossa 2007 Mondeo 2. 2 TDCi & 2003 Bailey Pageant Bordeaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iank Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 It is after all only a recommend guideline by an independent organisation and can be exceeded without breaking the law, however to exceed it, is unwise especially if you are an inexperienced tower. I towed a twin axle with MTPLM 1650 kg behind my car with a kerbweight about 1650 kg no problem and it was as steady as a rock at 60 mph. The payload of the van is about 350 kgs but generally, including the motor mover rarely exceeds 220kgs so we have a margin to play around with. The car had the oomph to take me out of danger if acceleration was required and the ability to stop safely in the event I had tio brake sharply. Only you can decide whether you are going to feel comfortable with the guideline of 85% reduced by 5 - 10%. If an experienced tower go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Limey Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 cb1701, You cannot exceed the 100% (caravan maximum plated weight against car's kerb weight) if you passed your driving test after 01/01/1997 and have only category B on your licence. You need B+E to go over the 100% limit. You can legally tow up to the car maker's specified towing limit, which can be way over the 100% in some cases. How would anyone make large 4x4s if the limit was 100%. A Discovery can tow 3500kg yet its kerb weight is around 2400kg (145%) From the information given by Daz I would expect that it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossa Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 cb1701, You cannot exceed the 100% (caravan maximum plated weight against car's kerb weight) if you passed your driving test after 01/01/1997 and have only category B on your licence. You need B+E to go over the 100% limit. You can legally tow up to the car maker's specified towing limit, which can be way over the 100% in some cases. How would anyone make large 4x4s if the limit was 100%. A Discovery can tow 3500kg yet its kerb weight is around 2400kg (145%) From the information given by Daz I would expect that it will be fine. 37273[/snapback] It's easy to say yep, go ahead, that will be fine, but surely we should be encouraging people to adhere to the 85% guideline? And who in their right mind would tow at 60mph (or 80mph in France) at 145%! Look at it this way, there's only two of you in the towing vehicle, the fuel tank's pretty low, there's very little in the boot and the van's at it's MTPLM. Wouldn't you feel safer knowing that you had adhered to the 85% guideline? Yossa 2007 Mondeo 2. 2 TDCi & 2003 Bailey Pageant Bordeaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Limey Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The 85% guideline came about from the Caravan industry, the Caravan Club and the Camping & Caravanning Club for people new to towing. I agree with this but pointed out the legal situation so that people knew what they can and cannot do. What they actually do is up to them and with the knowledge of their own towing experience. I have towed heavy trailers across Europe at maximum allowed speed limits but made sure that the trailer was loaded correctly. This is the most important thing of all. Caravans do not get anywhere near 3500kg with the biggest twin axle around 1800kg (75% behind a Discovery). Most trailers have low sides and do not have a great big aluminium box on them like caravans so do not suffer from side winds etc to the same extent as caravans. I should have added to my previous post that people with only category B licence can tow a trailer up to 750 kg behind a car with a weight up to 3500kg giving a gross train weight of 4250kg OR can tow a trailer with a gross weight (plated) not exceeding the car's kerb weight (100%) as long as the combined max weight of the trailer added to the car's maximum weight (not the kerb weight) do not exceed 3500kg I hope that this helps clarify the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank.A Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I think that this thread explains the recommended and legal aspects. http://www. caravantalk. org. uk/forums/index. ..?showtopic=4267 Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Wigelywoo The reason I don't show a weight against these items is that I carry them in the car so the do not affect the caravans true MTPLM Desperado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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