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bridgers2003

Don't Know Or Don't Care

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Looks to have more caravan behind the axle than in front, i. e. negative noseweight?

Maybe the photo is a bit deceptive

Brian

 

Hi Brian. Yes it is the 'Perspective' effect that creates the impression of 'All Rear End'.

 

 

Also,a note for Dave. It is not far removed from the image in the November 2010 Practical Caravan Magazine and as I recall p73.

It showed a diesel 4x4 Vauxhall Insignia Tourer that was actually an Opel with a Tabbert Paganini on the back.

When I took issue with David Motton (he was driving) and Nigel Donnelly the editor about this Chronic Mismatch and with no visible towing mirrors in a magazine that is very likely going into the hands of Newbies/Beginners & the 'Less Intelligent' the reply was.

Well it was conducted on a Private Test Track. The caravan at MiRO well exceeds the maximum braked towing limit of the car without the other very bad examples of 'Don't do as we do,we are the experts and can do what we please'.

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Thought this was interesting for a Hobby Advert with a Mondeo .

 

prestige2.jpg

 

It also looks like a BMW not a Mondeo!

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It also looks like a BMW not a Mondeo!

 

. .so are you saying that a Carlight coupled to a BMW is not an interesting advert for either a Hobby or a Mondeo? :rolleyes:

Edited by SamD

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Could be a BMW but i thought the rear lights look wrong .

 

 

 

 

bmw_520d_review_11.jpg

 

BMW 5 series

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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Hi Brian. Yes it is the 'Perspective' effect that creates the impression of 'All Rear End'.

 

 

Also,a note for Dave. It is not far removed from the image in the November 2010 Practical Caravan Magazine and as I recall p73.

It showed a diesel 4x4 Vauxhall Insignia Tourer that was actually an Opel with a Tabbert Paganini on the back.

When I took issue with David Motton (he was driving) and Nigel Donnelly the editor about this Chronic Mismatch and with no visible towing mirrors in a magazine that is very likely going into the hands of Newbies/Beginners & the 'Less Intelligent' the reply was.

Well it was conducted on a Private Test Track. The caravan at MiRO well exceeds the maximum braked towing limit of the car without the other very bad examples of 'Don't do as we do,we are the experts and can do what we please'.

 

A Tabbert Paganini goes 2200kgs as I have looked at getting one but it means keeping my Jeep Commander or that type of vehicle to tow it .

 

Why is buying a new caravan so difficult ? :wacko:

 

Dave

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It also looks like a BMW not a Mondeo!

 

Looks like one to me an old three series, those alloys look like BMW

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A Tabbert Paganini goes 2200kgs as I have looked at getting one but it means keeping my Jeep Commander or that type of vehicle to tow it .

 

Why is buying a new caravan so difficult ? :wacko:

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave. I was knocked over by the 2012 Hobby Premium and from what I have seen the difference between the Tabbert Paganini and the 2012 Hobby Premium is down to personal choice,albeit I am told that the Tabbert is a better build all-round.

They are both extremely good looking caravans but need A Big Dodge or Chevy or similar to handle them. A lottery ticket for tonight & Saturday night,I guess.

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Hi Dave. I was knocked over by the 2012 Hobby Premium and from what I have seen the difference between the Tabbert Paganini and the 2012 Hobby Premium is down to personal choice,albeit I am told that the Tabbert is a better build all-round.

They are both extremely good looking caravans but need A Big Dodge or Chevy or similar to handle them. A lottery ticket for tonight & Saturday night,I guess.

 

 

I prefer the Paganini as the shower is separate where as the Hobby Premium has a wet room and lots of mirrors to clean after showers and also means walking on the shower floor to use the loo. The Tabbert Paganini should be better finish as its about £25k more than the Hobby Premium at £50k .

 

I dont think Weight is an issue as I often tow upto 3000kg with my Commander and 2200 kgs would not be a problem and my van at the moment is just under 2000kg

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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I prefer the Paganini as the shower is separate where as the Hobby Premium has a wet room and lots of mirrors to clean after showers and also means walking on the shower floor to use the loo. The Tabbert Paganini should be better finish as its about £25k more than the Hobby Premium at £50k .

 

I dont think Weight is an issue as I often tow upto 3000kg with my Commander and 2200 kgs would not be a problem and my van at the moment is just under 2000kg

 

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave. Yes,the shower tray issue. Why such a stupid notion & insistence for that practice. Even some of our 'home grown' products are affected. I have never seen the logic other than the immediate more open aspect to the corridor/wider broom cupboard that some of the loo/shower cubicles appear to be.

My understanding of the 2012 Hobby Premium is that it comes in at nearer Vanmaster money or is that a modified version as a UK specification and with a shorter body length therefore complying with our 8mtr maximum?.

 

 

 

I prefer the Paganini as the shower is separate where as the Hobby Premium has a wet room and lots of mirrors to clean after showers and also means walking on the shower floor to use the loo. The Tabbert Paganini should be better finish as its about £25k more than the Hobby Premium at £50k .

 

I dont think Weight is an issue as I often tow upto 3000kg with my Commander and 2200 kgs would not be a problem and my van at the moment is just under 2000kg

 

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave. Yes,the shower tray issue. Why such a stupid notion & insistence for that practice. Even some of our 'home grown' products are affected. I have never seen the logic other than the immediate more open aspect to the corridor/wider broom cupboard that some of the loo/shower cubicles appear to be.

My understanding of the 2012 Hobby Premium is that it comes in at nearer Vanmaster money or is that a modified version as a UK specification and with a shorter body length therefore complying with our 8mtr maximum?.

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Vanmasters are about £35k and a Hobby Premium are about £25k .

 

 

 

Dave

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Vanmasters are about £35k and a Hobby Premium are about £25k .

 

 

 

Dave

 

Sorry Dave. The pills have not yet kicked in. I meant the Tabbert Paganini was Vanmaster money.

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A new Tabbert Paganini is 57k Euros ( £49k ) and a Vanmaster Occasion TA is £36 k . The Tabbert would also need the cost of collection from Europe .

 

 

 

 

Dave

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i am sorry but you just don't read my replies.

 

Trucks are irrelevant. They are a totally different set up.

 

A vehicle manufacturer designs his vehicle to be capable of physically pulling a certain weight of trailer. They don't carry out any work or research on the stability of various types of outfit particularly caravans and that is what the argument is about .

 

In my last post I quoted the CC as an example. As I have said before, The C&CC club give similar advice. The National Caravan Council who represent manufacturers also give similar advice.

 

Since you have raised it, I can quote research. It has been done by Bath University.

See http://people. bath. a. ..cjk/Caravan. pdf

That concluded that heavy caravans are less stable than lighter ones. It will also show you why you cannot compare caravans and trucks

 

Perhaps you would care to quote advice or research that backs your position when it comes to caravans and stability.

 

poolebob

 

General advice offered by independant organisations do not refer to individual outfit's. If a manufacturer designs and builds a vehicle, it must receive type approval before it goes on the road. The plating is part of that type approval, that is why I will only adhere to the stated plated towing limits on the vehicle. whether that is below or above the guidline of 85% is irrelevant.

 

Their is not a court in the land that can prosecute if you remain under your vehicles plated weight.

 

Having towed for over 20 years in all classes, i know from my own experince that a heavier outfit is more stable. The more weight you put on the ground the less likely your trailer can move. A university study, done my students most of which do not even hold a drivers license, you must be joking, and they got funding for that!!

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General advice offered by independant organisations do not refer to individual outfit's. If a manufacturer designs and builds a vehicle, it must receive type approval before it goes on the road. The plating is part of that type approval, that is why I will only adhere to the stated plated towing limits on the vehicle. whether that is below or above the guidline of 85% is irrelevant.

 

Their is not a court in the land that can prosecute if you remain under your vehicles plated weight.

 

Having towed for over 20 years in all classes, i know from my own experince that a heavier outfit is more stable. The more weight you put on the ground the less likely your trailer can move. A university study, done my students most of which do not even hold a drivers license, you must be joking, and they got funding for that!!

 

If you are towing an articulated box trailer or a drawn box trailer with no weight in it across the M62 with a 50MPH cross wind, then yes towing it with 20+ tonnes load in it will make it more stable.

 

Towing a caravan, when the difference in min and max load is maybe 300 Kgs, then no, the effect of weight has very little to do with the stability of the caravan. There are other factors that have greater effects than the difference between empty and full. The maths in the paper quoted can be used to work this out.

 

I think your comments about students are rather unfair. What does it matter if they drive or not ( I know someone that flies a plane, but cant drive a car), it is the understanding of the principles, and with a good grounding in Maths and Physics, it does not take much working out to produce a 'standard' set of formulas for predicting effects if you factor in the known variables. Albert Einstein couldn't drive. .. but he seems to have done OK.

 

How did they get funding. .. by coming up with something that they wanted to do and proving to someone that they had the talent, insite, skill set and knowledge to research the subject.

 

I have read the paper and worked through some of the maths principles. I have also been in touch with other companies in the UK and Europe that manufacture trailers. .. both towed and articulated, and I have received some interesting research papers back, supported by various universities in Sweden, Germany, Holland which, after careful reading support the paper of the student from Bath University that you seem to want to keep casting aspersions on.

 

FT

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You also have consider that these students were reading a Masters degree which means simply that they already had a very good first degree. So not your average student.

 

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You also have consider that these students were reading a Masters degree which means simply that they already had a very good first degree. So not your average student.

Perhaps, but it is still original research.

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Perhaps, but it is still original research.

Exactly and by well qualified people.

 

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General advice offered by independant organisations do not refer to individual outfit's. If a manufacturer designs and builds a vehicle, it must receive type approval before it goes on the road. The plating is part of that type approval, that is why I will only adhere to the stated plated towing limits on the vehicle. whether that is below or above the guidline of 85% is irrelevant.

 

Their is not a court in the land that can prosecute if you remain under your vehicles plated weight.

 

Having towed for over 20 years in all classes, i know from my own experince that a heavier outfit is more stable. The more weight you put on the ground the less likely your trailer can move. A university study, done my students most of which do not even hold a drivers license, you must be joking, and they got funding for that!!

 

I am reminded of a platoon of soldiers marching along and with one man out of step. That man thinks everyone is out of step except him. The rest of the platoon know who is really out of step.

 

I side with the majority. Towing a van which is over 100% of the kerb weight of the car is asking for trouble.

 

You do not listen to the arguments we come up with so in the words of Dragon's Den, "I am out"

 

poolebob

Edited by poolebob

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