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Don't Know Or Don't Care


bridgers2003

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I am on the CC sit in cheddar and just saw a chap casually hitch his Bailey Senator Louisianna on the back of his Ford Mondeo and off he went on his travels

Having towed my caravan with cars that are just heavy enough I am very aware of the behaviour of such an outfit

Are these people unaware of the law or do they just not care

I did a quick check and here is the result

http://www. towcar. info/report. php

I'd you are in the area steer well clear of a purple mondeo towing a massive caravan that is clearly totally illegal

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I doubt if its illegal unless he is exceeding his GTW for the vehicle but he might be over the guide figure of 85% and nearer 100% but still not illegal . Not knowing the model of Mondeo have a 2000 kg tow limit .

 

 

 

Dave

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We were at Haggerston Castle a few weeks ago when a Vauxhaul Astra pulled in pulling a big twin axle.

It was a fairly old twin axle so might have not been as heavy as today's models but it was still a big van.

There was three vans in our group and all of us thought the car was too small for the van.

On the same site there was a Corsa pulling an old small two berth but I think that one would probably been ok.

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I am always surprised when i see the little Dihatsu sportrak's towing big ole twin axle vans. They just seem to have such a small footprint for a car with a 3500kg towing limit.

 

I'm pretty sure it must be a choppy ride, even if it is legal. I suppose thats the trouble with the towing rules/guidelines in this country. We as caravaner's all know what makes a stable outfit, but an outfit can be very unstable even if well within the rules.

 

You cant legislate against stupidity. Just like you cant teach common sense!!

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It came out at 115% on the what towbar report

 

It came out at 115% on the what towcar report

 

Doeent mean it's ilegal, just not recomended. No way would i like to in charge of that outfit though. When he has an accident he will no doubt not see anything wrong with his chooce of outfit and wonder what went wrong.

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I was once on a site next to a huge twin avle 'van and the chap had the same car as me, a Citroen C5 2. 0 deisel. I asked him how he managed because I was on the limit ( 85% ) he said he didn't live too far away but he brought the 'van to the site empty, then went back home. Filled the car with all the bits and pieces and put them in. I often wonder what happened if he decided to go over 50 miles on his holidays. :wacko: Peter

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I was once on a site next to a huge twin avle 'van and the chap had the same car as me, a Citroen C5 2. 0 deisel. I asked him how he managed because I was on the limit ( 85% ) he said he didn't live too far away but he brought the 'van to the site empty, then went back home. Filled the car with all the bits and pieces and put them in. I often wonder what happened if he decided to go over 50 miles on his holidays. :wacko: Peter

 

85% is not the limit it is just a good guideline, 100% for many is the limit but for a significant number of people the limit is set by the cars maximum train weight. Just to put the record straight I would under no circumstances be prepared to accept a match that was over 100% .

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Its all notional

The MTPLM is based on what the manufacturer thinks he can sell to most average motorists

For instance Swift plate their vans at a standard weight but you can get an uprated plate to allow more payload

I have just got my Challenger 570 uprated from 1600 to 1650 kg but its still the same van albeit with 1 more psi in the tyres

Showing it at 1650 might lose sales if people are comparing the outfit on the 85% rule etc but load allowance could be marginal

The CC say that an experienced caravanner may tow up to 100% but Nissan with the X Trail at about 1600 KG say that the manual car can legally tow 2200kg but the auto only 1350 Kg which is nowhere near 100% or even 85 %

Its what the manufacturer says that matters and following the 85% rule as in the above example would be illegal

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I am on the CC sit in cheddar and just saw a chap casually hitch his Bailey Senator Louisianna on the back of his Ford Mondeo and off he went on his travels

Having towed my caravan with cars that are just heavy enough I am very aware of the behaviour of such an outfit

Are these people unaware of the law or do they just not care

I did a quick check and here is the result

http://www. towcar. info/report. php

I'd you are in the area steer well clear of a purple mondeo towing a massive caravan that is clearly totally illegal

Unless you have the full details of the car. how would you know it is illegal?. I towed my senator Virginia with a MK3 Mondeo at a ratio of 100% I was happy with the outfit even towing at 70 mph in France and Europe

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It's really sad when someone feels that they've got to go and look at whattowcar to try and prove a point - and then publish it on the website. Why didn't he just give out the registration number as well or even better call the police and feel really smug.

 

Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't. It's the do-gooders, interefers and know-it-alls that are stopping most of us doing what is perfectly safe and has been for years. We can't do electrical work, nor gas, soon plumbing will be taboo as will servicing your own car or caravan. You'll need qualifications foir turning on a tap ore light or even the telly. Get a life

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It is naturally good advice not to let the tail wag the dog, and a low weight ratio will help with this, but exceeding the 85% guide for new drivers is perfectly acceptable for one experienced in towing, providing the speed is adjusted down to allow for the increased instability at speed.

The picture below illustrates this as the towing ratio must exceed 100% given the additional weight of the trailer.

post-353-0-79793400-1318685078_thumb.jpg

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It's really sad when someone feels that they've got to go and look at whattowcar to try and prove a point - and then publish it on the website. Why didn't he just give out the registration number as well or even better call the police and feel really smug.

 

"Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't. It's the do-gooders, interefers and know-it-alls that are stopping most of us doing what is perfectly safe and has been for years. We can't do electrical work, nor gas, soon plumbing will be taboo as will servicing your own car or caravan. You'll need qualifications foir turning on a tap ore light or even the telly. Get a life

"It's really sad".........No. .....I think its a good idea for other new caravanners on here to be able to read these comments and to realise that there are limits set for us to follow safely and legally. Yes. ..it may have been a perfectly legal outfit,but it makes people stop and wonder about there own rigs.

 

"Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't."

So your quite happy for someone else to be on the road with a potentially unsafe and dangerous set up,even if it means it could cause untold damage and serious injury to others?.......as long as its not you or your family eh??

 

Bridgers. ....you carry on posting information like that mate. ..I for one would be more than happy to advise someone about the weight ratios etc. . if I thought it was going to help them and avoid any incidents.

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Your words potentially unsafe is the operative part of that statement. Taking the case in point the caravan MTPLM is 1685kg the cars kerbweight is 1590kg which is a 106% match which is seemingly an unwise move. But say the owners decide to put no load in the caravan and put all the things they need in the car then the sums work out much differently, so a 1685kg caravan becomes a 1425kg caravan, the car has an added 200kg of luggage plus a 75kg passenger so the cars mass becomes 1865kg which is a very safe 76% match. Since ultimately the caravan/car ratio is governed by actual weights with the published maximum and minimum weights to be used as a good guideline then what was criticised as being unsafe and even perhaps illegal I think it is fair comment to say that people should only be so publicly critical when they are in possession of the full factcs.

Being pragmatic the owners of the outfit will probably have some load in the caravan and some load in the car bringing the match to somewhere around 85% which I think everyone on here would accept as a very good match.

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everyone has their own spin on this and some always know better or presume it will never happen to them, not just in caravanning but all aspects of life.

Often people are aware of the guidleines, just choose to ignore them. ....like car insurance. ...we all have to have it as a requirement of the law and this is a well known fact, there are many people out there who dont have it and clearly dont care.

 

We bought our 1st caravan this year and had a 2009 ford s max 1. 8 to pull an ancona mtpl 1499. We were told we '' would be ok'' it worked out at 86% . ...no previous towing. We mentioned a mover and another sales told us he wouldnt recommend us pulling the ancona with the s max and definitely not with the weight of a mover on top.

 

Im a bit of a ''like to do it right'' type of a person and did my home work on here . ..cant remeber what figures lol but the weight ratio was 86% but 2 other ratios were 103 and 106% . ...........i personally wasnt happy so with the van on order we changed the car to get the 85% and the 103 and 106 figures to both 59 . I personally felt happier knowing we would have a more stable outfit and with 2 small children along for the ride i didnt want to add to any potential problems. Lots of people have said they wouldnt have bothered. ...but it bothered me, even though we would have been perfectly legal.

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Slightly off subject, the other day I watched a perfectly amiable chap plug in his 16A extention lead into the power post, only to be told by his observing wife that he should make the connection to the caravan first. He dutifully unplugged the extention lead rom the post, he continued to then connect the 16A lead to his caravan, he then proceeded to re connect the lead to the post. His wife (I presume) looked on smugly!

 

Thing is there always seems to be some who know better. Seems to me that thinking for oneself seems to have been reduced to set of guidelines. Lowest common demoninator oppposed to common sense!

 

PS, if you cannot understand that my above observation is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, you should follow the guidelines!

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Slightly off subject, the other day I watched a perfectly amiable chap plug in his 16A extention lead into the power post, only to be told by his observing wife that he should make the connection to the caravan first. He dutifully unplugged the extention lead rom the post, he continued to then connect the 16A lead to his caravan, he then proceeded to re connect the lead to the post. His wife (I presume) looked on smugly!

 

Thing is there always seems to be some who know better. Seems to me that thinking for oneself seems to have been reduced to set of guidelines. Lowest common demoninator oppposed to common sense!

 

PS, if you cannot understand that my above observation is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, you should follow the guidelines!

 

 

Some men pay a lot of money to be bossed about by a woman. Others get it for free. ..

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It's really sad when someone feels that they've got to go and look at whattowcar to try and prove a point - and then publish it on the website. Why didn't he just give out the registration number as well or even better call the police and feel really smug.

 

Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't. It's the do-gooders, interefers and know-it-alls that are stopping most of us doing what is perfectly safe and has been for years. We can't do electrical work, nor gas, soon plumbing will be taboo as will servicing your own car or caravan. You'll need qualifications foir turning on a tap ore light or even the telly. Get a life

here here, well said

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Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't. It's the do-gooders, interefers and know-it-alls that are stopping most of us doing what is perfectly safe and has been for years. We can't do electrical work, nor gas, soon plumbing will be taboo as will servicing your own car or caravan. You'll need qualifications foir turning on a tap ore light or even the telly. Get a life

 

 

Freedom do do as you please is a very attractive idea - especially if its only you who will have to face the consequences. But if people are towing unsafe and unstable loads that could cause accidents or doing dodgy gas or electrical work that puts others at risk then its not surprising if the law steps in to stop it happening. More a matter of preserving life than getting one I'd have thought.

 

And forums like this will be pretty thin and boring if no one is allowed to criticise anything questionable they see going on around them.

 

Unwise behaviour by a minority of caravaners is likely to give rise to more and stricter regulation and enforcement so I'm in favour of publicising it when it happens and grateful to the OP for providing chapter and verse. .

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A friend of ours started looking for a caravan, he has a Ford Focus, I dont know what model, he went to a dealer, and was told by the dealer that he could tow a Bailey Pagent, as long as he didnt fill it to the max weight. I was furious this is a dealer who he would not name.

 

The dealer should and does know better, anything for a sale. (he bought a Pagent privately) after the dealers said it was ok didnt take any notice of myself, or others who tried to tell him other wise.

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he went to a dealer, and was told by the dealer that he could tow a Bailey Pagent, as long as he didnt fill it to the max weight. I was furious this is a dealer who he would not name.

 

 

 

Why were you furious? What the dealer suggested was not illegal.

When we first bought our van we had a Mazda 5, which in this country has a 1400kg towing limit (1600kg in some European countries) but for both had a gross train weight of 3600kg.

Our van has a maximum weight of 1483kg, so we never fully loaded the van and put all the heavy stuff in the car.

As long as your friend keeps the weight of his van under the max towing weight of the car and didn't exceed the maximum train weight they would have been fine.

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A friend of ours started looking for a caravan, he has a Ford Focus, I dont know what model, he went to a dealer, and was told by the dealer that he could tow a Bailey Pagent, as long as he didnt fill it to the max weight. I was furious this is a dealer who he would not name.

 

The dealer should and does know better, anything for a sale. (he bought a Pagent privately) after the dealers said it was ok didnt take any notice of myself, or others who tried to tell him other wise.

 

Whats wrong?. Ford make all sorts of Focuses (Foci?) some with better towing capacities than others and with different kerbweights. Bailey make lots of different Pageants. light ones and heavy ones (and a lot in between) and with quite large payload allowances as well (176kg in the case of an S7 Monarch) so you've made an assumption that he's got an underpowered lightweight Focus and a heavy Pageant that he's gonna load up to the gunnels. He might be very sensible and done the sums and is quite happy with the result. - its not compulsory to fully load the van to its limit.

 

We towed a 1200kg van with a Focus several years ago, Towing capacity was 1300kg and as far as I remember we were about 86% and it was fine.

 

We've also towed 1420kg with a C-Max (towing capacity 1500kg) at about 93% all over the highlands of Scotland without any problems, very stable and sure footed although there were a few strange looks because the car didn't really look big enough when coupled up (I wonder if we got any comments on CT :) )

 

Our present outfit is 80% and we are moving up to 91% when we get our new van but well within the capacity of our towcar.

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It's really sad when someone feels that they've got to go and look at whattowcar to try and prove a point - and then publish it on the website. Why didn't he just give out the registration number as well or even better call the police and feel really smug.

 

Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't. It's the do-gooders, interefers and know-it-alls that are stopping most of us doing what is perfectly safe and has been for years. We can't do electrical work, nor gas, soon plumbing will be taboo as will servicing your own car or caravan. You'll need qualifications foir turning on a tap ore light or even the telly. Get a life

 

I am with you, far too many people nowadays making rules and "guidlines". And then even more blindly following them.

 

If you cant figure it out yourself maybe you shouldnt be doing it, what ever "it" is.

 

Its exactly what is wrong with this country.

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It's really sad when someone feels that they've got to go and look at whattowcar to try and prove a point - and then publish it on the website. Why didn't he just give out the registration number as well or even better call the police and feel really smug.

 

Why are there so many who feel they have to sit and pass judgement on others who may well be legal and so what if they aren't. It's the do-gooders, interefers and know-it-alls that are stopping most of us doing what is perfectly safe and has been for years. We can't do electrical work, nor gas, soon plumbing will be taboo as will servicing your own car or caravan. You'll need qualifications foir turning on a tap ore light or even the telly. Get a life

Oh dear silly old me. There I was thinking this forum is for posting your findings about caravanning and to maybe advise people who, for one reason or another, get it wrong.

The reason I posted this was the outfit in question looked wrong at first glance due to the fact that I once wanted to purchase a Bailey Senator Arizona,what is a lot smaller and lighter than a Louisianna, and my dealer refused to sell it to me as my towcar at the time was a 3 series BMW,similar weight to a mondeo, and was not a suitable match.

The outfit in question is NOT a suitable match and no one with any sense would drive it on the road.

I checked on What Towcar purely out of interest (it took all of two minutes)and have since "sadly" checked on the caravan club website and have a guess what they both say !!!!!

If you want to Tow a massive caravan with a tiny little car, Blow your house up because of botched gas plumming or even electrocute yourself carry on but please don't do it anywhere near me or any of my family.

Thanks to bristolroversfc for your comments and Up the Gas - Irene

Stewart

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Oh dear silly old me. There I was thinking this forum is for posting your findings about caravanning and to maybe advise people who, for one reason or another, get it wrong.

The reason I posted this was the outfit in question looked wrong at first glance due to the fact that I once wanted to purchase a Bailey Senator Arizona,what is a lot smaller and lighter than a Louisianna, and my dealer refused to sell it to me as my towcar at the time was a 3 series BMW,similar weight to a mondeo, and was not a suitable match.

The outfit in question is NOT a suitable match and no one with any sense would drive it on the road.

I checked on What Towcar purely out of interest (it took all of two minutes)and have since "sadly" checked on the caravan club website and have a guess what they both say !!!!!

If you want to Tow a massive caravan with a tiny little car, Blow your house up because of botched gas plumming or even electrocute yourself carry on but please don't do it anywhere near me or any of my family.

Thanks to bristolroversfc for your comments and Up the Gas - Irene

Stewart

 

 

Your "sad" mistake it seems was to check your facts before posting instead of just indulging in blind prejudice.

 

This forum is going to be pretty thin and boring if people aren't allowed to comment on the behaviour of others.

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