ericfield Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can some clever person explain to me how the 2012 tow car of the year Jetta, with a noseweight limit of only 75kg, managed to tame a Bailey to clinch the towing award. ...when everyone tells me Baileys need 90kg for stability? My own tow car has a similarly low limit and so I have been limiting my UK upgrade options to Swift and Lunar models. ... as everything I have read suggests all other brands need (or prefer) 90kg or more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvoman9 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can some clever person explain to me how the 2012 tow car of the year Jetta, with a noseweight limit of only 75kg, managed to tame a Bailey to clinch the towing award. ...when everyone tells me Baileys need 90kg for stability? My own tow car has a similarly low limit and so I have been limiting my UK upgrade options to Swift and Lunar models. ... as everything I have read suggests all other brands need (or prefer) 90kg or more! And can the same clever person explain how a car can be 2012 tow car of the year in 2011. peter. Quote volvo xc90t6/coachman laser 590/4 running at 80% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_b_45 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 And can an even cleverererer person tell me why any of us take any notice of it at all! Let's face it. Most people posting on here have the best outfit possible - the right car and the appropriate van. And likely as not for some they will get 50plus mpg towing so how could a Jetta stand up to such opinion! Quote Santa Fe 7 Seater Premium Manual towing Swift Eccles 480 plated to 1500 kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericfield Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 And can the same clever person explain how a car can be 2012 tow car of the year in 2011. peter. ah. ..that's another question. I was even more bemused how the Swift Sport could get tourer of 2011 award. ..before they went on sale!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjohn Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The C. C. say they ballast the 'van at 7% or the max noseweight allowable for the car. Remember that the ballast they put in the 'vans are strictly laid in neat lines along the floor. Unfortunately when you actually come to load the 'van for your own habitation, you have to do silly things like put your clothes in the wardrobe at the back of the 'van. Then to compensate you have to put silly things like personal possessions in overhead lockers, and worst of all. you have to put a couple of gas bottles in the front locker!!!!!.Nuff said? :wacko: Peter Quote Peter and Sandy pulling a 2016 Coachman VIP 565 with 2016 Ford Kuga 2. 0. 180 ps. Titanium Nav. Retired and loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digga Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 and why didn't Range Rover get a look in this year ? the Ultimate Tug ( IMO). Maybe it wasn't their turn :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leedslad Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Can some clever person explain to me how the 2012 tow car of the year Jetta, with a noseweight limit of only 75kg, managed to tame a Bailey to clinch the towing award. ...when everyone tells me Baileys need 90kg for stability? My own tow car has a similarly low limit and so I have been limiting my UK upgrade options to Swift and Lunar models. ... as everything I have read suggests all other brands need (or prefer) 90kg or more! I don't claim to be clever but I manage to achieve 75kg on the hook without too much trouble. You'll notice that my outfit is very similar to that which has been tested and it is perfectly stable. John. Edited October 3, 2011 by leedslad Quote Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he'll tell you. If he doesn't, why humiliate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebasher Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Took the Pegasus out for the first time today Got bang on 75kg on the nose and towed 120 miles on motorways and windy roads with absolutely no stability problems Quote 2022 Swift Elite 860 & Santa Fe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Can some clever person explain to me how the 2012 tow car of the year Jetta, with a noseweight limit of only 75kg, managed to tame a Bailey to clinch the towing award. ...when everyone tells me Baileys need 90kg for stability? My own tow car has a similarly low limit and so I have been limiting my UK upgrade options to Swift and Lunar models. ... as everything I have read suggests all other brands need (or prefer) 90kg or more! Hi Eric. I find a great many of the Maximum Hitch-head weights to be way over that of both of my Volvo V70's,they are both 75kgs maximum on the ball. Our 2001 Elddis Crusader SuperSirocco has a listed maximum of 100kgs but is as stable as a stationary pallet truck with the weight set at 75kgs. I believe that a great deal of the problems running on lighter than 75kgs is down to loading and distribution. The weight are always given as maximum,I believe. I have not seen an actual minimum stated although the recommended % of caravan weight is not always attainable and furthermore the maximum on the tow-vehicle or the tow-bar manufacturers and whichever is the lesser is the figure to comply with. The % recommended is always of the MTPLM I believe,that is irrespective of the actual weight being towed. Quote Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne T Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi, I'm so glad to come across this topic. We are complete newbies to towing and are completely confused with the advice we've been given about noseweight. Our car is a Skoda Superb estate and we have a Coachman Pastiche 520/4. The noseweight for the car is 80kg, so we thought that was the way to go. However, we recently had a towing lesson and the guy told us that we should aim for no more than 50-60 kg on the nose and that 80kg was way too high. We have just come back from our first trip and we set the noseweight at 60kg and the towing experience felt like being on a boat and was a very weird sensation. Fortunately, we weren't going very far, it was really just a try out. We thoroughly enjoyed the trip except for the towing experience which was dreadful. Would be pleased with any advice anyone can give. Many thanks. Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leedslad Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 and why didn't Range Rover get a look in this year ? the Ultimate Tug ( IMO). Maybe it wasn't their turn :wacko: Maybe it wasn't entered in the competition. If you don't enter, you can't win. John. Quote Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he'll tell you. If he doesn't, why humiliate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leedslad Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi, I'm so glad to come across this topic. We are complete newbies to towing and are completely confused with the advice we've been given about noseweight. Our car is a Skoda Superb estate and we have a Coachman Pastiche 520/4. The noseweight for the car is 80kg, so we thought that was the way to go. However, we recently had a towing lesson and the guy told us that we should aim for no more than 50-60 kg on the nose and that 80kg was way too high. We have just come back from our first trip and we set the noseweight at 60kg and the towing experience felt like being on a boat and was a very weird sensation. Fortunately, we weren't going very far, it was really just a try out. We thoroughly enjoyed the trip except for the towing experience which was dreadful. Would be pleased with any advice anyone can give. Many thanks. Suzanne I have to disagree with the advice that you've been given and would opt for 80kg. John. Quote Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he'll tell you. If he doesn't, why humiliate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtrailman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Hi, I'm so glad to come across this topic. We are complete newbies to towing and are completely confused with the advice we've been given about noseweight. Our car is a Skoda Superb estate and we have a Coachman Pastiche 520/4. The noseweight for the car is 80kg, so we thought that was the way to go. However, we recently had a towing lesson and the guy told us that we should aim for no more than 50-60 kg on the nose and that 80kg was way too high. We have just come back from our first trip and we set the noseweight at 60kg and the towing experience felt like being on a boat and was a very weird sensation. Fortunately, we weren't going very far, it was really just a try out. We thoroughly enjoyed the trip except for the towing experience which was dreadful. Would be pleased with any advice anyone can give. Many thanks. Suzanne The chap who mentioned 50/60kg clearly knew nothing about towing caravans, maybe trailers?. Bath uni did numerous tests mainly for Bailey, the conclusion was stability increased with increased nose weight. With a 80kg nose weight limit i would be aiming for around 75kg. The CC recommend you use 5% to 7% of MTPLM, if possible with out exceeding either cars nose limit or chassis nose limit, (usually 100kg for a ALKO chassis.) Edited October 4, 2011 by xtrailman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtrailman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) The C. C. say they ballast the 'van at 7% or the max noseweight allowable for the car. Remember that the ballast they put in the 'vans are strictly laid in neat lines along the floor. Unfortunately when you actually come to load the 'van for your own habitation, you have to do silly things like put your clothes in the wardrobe at the back of the 'van. Then to compensate you have to put silly things like personal possessions in overhead lockers, and worst of all. you have to put a couple of gas bottles in the front locker!!!!!.Nuff said? :wacko: Peter And as the caravan is only ballast to 85% of the cars kerb weight all the cars tested are pulling different weights. So i for one don't think the tow car of the year means much. Now if cars in the same group all towed the same weight, then i would be sitting up and taking notice. Edited October 4, 2011 by xtrailman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD 42 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I have a Bailey Pageant S5, 1350kg mtplm & tow with a self leveling Citroen C5 mk1,75kg nose weight . I have extreme difficulty getting down to 75 kg N/W using sensible loading of the caravan. all heavy gear goes in the car in order to keep the van to its MTPLM. . With out ballasting to the extreme rear of the van with exceeding the mtplm it would be almost impossible to get to 50/60kg N/W suggested by your expert as it is I carry very little in the gas locker except for 1 calorlite bottle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smax Jonny Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ah. ..that's another question. I was even more bemused how the Swift Sport could get tourer of 2011 award. ..before they went on sale!!! Probably the same reason the Bailey Pegasus got the same award when it was released with the "revolutionary" new construction !!. In my experience of towing the closer you get to the maximum towball weight of van the more stable it is. Quote Land Rover Discovery Sport 180 SE Tech 2016 - Fuji White Coachman Festival 640/6 - 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_b_45 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I run with 90kg on the tow ball which gives me a really stable tow. I have been at 80kg and not really noticed any difference. However - question. I am sick and tired of being taken for a ride by calor. At the moment I have waste master, sat. dish and tripod and odds and ends in the front locker with a 7kg butane. Loading of the van carefully gives me the required noseweight. But. ............ suppose I opted for a 13kg propane which full weighs around 27kg. That's maybe 12kg heavier than my 7kg butane. Obviously I could still arrive at my desired noseweight by moving things that currently live under the front seats back to the centre of the van - I don't want to store waste container and sat. stuff elsewhere so prefer to leave them in front locker!. My understanding is that it's not a great idea to simply load the front locker to achieve noseweight but preferable to distribute things more evenly in the van following the accepted guide lines. What do people think about towing with next to nothing under front seats and noseweight achieved by extra weight right at the front of the van? I recollect watching a demonstration (on YouTube) with a model that snaked according to weight distribution and speed and seem to remember some advice about even weight distribution rather than all at the front and centre of the van. Am I right? How many people use a 13kg bottle or even a 15kg one. The savings on gas make your eyes water. Quote Santa Fe 7 Seater Premium Manual towing Swift Eccles 480 plated to 1500 kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Our car is a Skoda Superb estate and we have a Coachman Pastiche 520/4. The noseweight for the car is 80kg, so we thought that was the way to go. However, we recently had a towing lesson and the guy told us that we should aim for no more than 50-60 kg on the nose and that 80kg was way too high. Would be pleased with any advice anyone can give. Hi Suzanne,Think of it like this. Most caravans have three points of contact with the ground; two large wheels, and a jockey wheel, that together form a tripod. Now we all know that a tripod will be most stable when there is an equal weight on each corner. It therefore follows that you should aim for a noseweight of around a third of the caravans weight. However this is not practical in the real world, as that weight would have to be supported not by the jockey wheel, but rather by the rear of the car! Through many years of experience by seasoned caravanners, it is generally accepted that a balanced caravan should exert around 7% of its weight upon the towball. This may be reduced to 5% providing a significant amount of the caravan's load is placed directly over the axle, but if the caravan layout dictates this is not possible, then always go for the highest permitted noseweight. It is likely that he caravan hitch will have a limit of 100Kgs, so that should not be exceeded, but equally neither should the towbar limit; in your case 80Kgs. Unless the towcar manufacturer gives a lower trailer weight limit, the maximum weight you should tow is therefore (100% x 80Kgs ) / 7% = 1142Kgs rising to (100% x 80Kgs) / 5% = 1600Kgs for a well balanced caravan. These are just theoretical figures, and should not be taken in isolation, but considered together with the recommended maximum caravan weight for new caravanners of 85% of the towcar weight. You don't say which model of Skoda Superb you have, but I suspect that your Pastiche is going to be around the 90% mark, which is fine providing you drive with care, and your engine is able to maintain a reasonable road speed. I do hope this makes sense and that all these figures have not confused you further. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 What do people think about towing with next to nothing under front seats and noseweight achieved by extra weight right at the front of the van?Since the noseweight is very small when compared with the total weight of the caravan, I would suggest that the effect of empty front bed-lockers would be minimal, providing the majority of the weight was placed directly over the axle line. However, remember that there will be an increased pendulum effect, the further the load is paced from the axle, and that would include weight in the front external locker. Normally we have stored light weight but bulky sleeping bags under the front seats, so what you are suggesting, is effectively what I have done for many years without any stability problems. Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthetooth Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 and why didn't Range Rover get a look in this year ? the Ultimate Tug ( IMO). Maybe it wasn't their turn :wacko: Probably brokedown on the way to the test [har har!! ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Probably the same reason the Bailey Pegasus got the same award when it was released with the "revolutionary" new construction !!. In my experience of towing the closer you get to the maximum towball weight of van the more stable it is. Hi Smax Jonny. Interesting point,BUT with a proviso. Our 2001 Elddis Crusader SuperSirocco has a maximum hitch weight of 100kgs. The car has a maximum tow-ball weight of 75kgs. The caravan tows perfectly stable,steady and straight even in wild cross winds and motorway conditions in general. The caravan is however a Twin Axle and therefore far more stable than a near similar length Single Axle,it also has the Al-Ko AKS 2004 hitch-head fitted. Could the real key to stability be be Twin Axle & correct loading/weight distribution?. Quote Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi, I'm so glad to come across this topic. We are complete newbies to towing and are completely confused with the advice we've been given about noseweight. Our car is a Skoda Superb estate and we have a Coachman Pastiche 520/4. The noseweight for the car is 80kg, so we thought that was the way to go. However, we recently had a towing lesson and the guy told us that we should aim for no more than 50-60 kg on the nose and that 80kg was way too high. We have just come back from our first trip and we set the noseweight at 60kg and the towing experience felt like being on a boat and was a very weird sensation. Fortunately, we weren't going very far, it was really just a try out. We thoroughly enjoyed the trip except for the towing experience which was dreadful. Would be pleased with any advice anyone can give. Many thanks. Suzanne Hi Suzanne, You definately need to try and achieve 80kgs, you'll find the caravan tows much better. Jim Quote Ford Mondeo Zetec 140 TDCi pulling 2010 Swift Challenger 540 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne T Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Hi all. Many thanks for taking the time to reply. Next time out we'll go for 80kgs on the nose and see how we get on. Suzanne Edited October 4, 2011 by Suzanne T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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