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Pegasus Noseweights


ericfield
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I am sure this question has been raised before but as someone newly considering switching from a Swift to a Bailey Pegasus I would appreciate a straw poll of the nose weights required for best stability.

 

I have read stories that Baileys are very nose heavy ex works and often require significant counter balancing once bottles and batteries are added. I have seen ideal nose weights of 85-90kg mentioned.

 

My concern is that my tug which has a low noseweight limit of 75kg may have to be changed as well, if a Pegasus can't be towed safely at that low level. And of course that's assuming it could even be counter balanced safely to this low weight in the first place!

 

Comments please?

 

 

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We have now got ours to between 85/90, with a lot of adjustment in the load. Our Kuga will take 105 on the nose so OK with this, but would be a problem with other vehicles. We do carry two gas bottles, however, so could be reduced by removing one.

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We have now got ours to between 85/90, with a lot of adjustment in the load. Our Kuga will take 105 on the nose so OK with this, but would be a problem with other vehicles. We do carry two gas bottles, however, so could be reduced by removing one.

 

Mmmmm. What's the maximum load allowed on the Alko hitch?

 

John.

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Mmmmm. What's the maximum load allowed on the Alko hitch?

 

John.

 

It's 100kg - we don't run at 105kg, just metioned that the car is capable to taking this load so we're within the car limits! (and ALKO).

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We tow our Peg2 Genoa with about 80kg noseweight (around 6% of loaded caravan weight). On our first outings we put the bedding under the front seats as we did in our old Swift but had to have quite a lot of stuff at the back to achieve the noseweight. We found that towing was nowhere near as good as with the Swift, being affected by almost every passing HGV. This happened only a very few times in five years with the Swift. We now travel with the bedding on the floor over the axle and sort the rest of the stuff out to achieve the 80kg noseweight. With this arrangement we travelled back a couple of days after the remnants of the US hurricane hit us in cross-winds of well over 20mph with no trouble. I think I have read elsewhere on this forum that the Pegasus needs careful loading but I guess that once you have found a way that suits your van and luggage you should be OK. We also use Calor Lite gas bottles - they make quite a difference. (It is also much easier to carry a full one back from the site office!)

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We tow our Peg2 Genoa with about 80kg noseweight (around 6% of loaded caravan weight). On our first outings we put the bedding under the front seats as we did in our old Swift but had to have quite a lot of stuff at the back to achieve the noseweight. We found that towing was nowhere near as good as with the Swift, being affected by almost every passing HGV. This happened only a very few times in five years with the Swift. We now travel with the bedding on the floor over the axle and sort the rest of the stuff out to achieve the 80kg noseweight. With this arrangement we travelled back a couple of days after the remnants of the US hurricane hit us in cross-winds of well over 20mph with no trouble. I think I have read elsewhere on this forum that the Pegasus needs careful loading but I guess that once you have found a way that suits your van and luggage you should be OK. We also use Calor Lite gas bottles - they make quite a difference. (It is also much easier to carry a full one back from the site office!)

 

Thanks for that insight. Apart from the difficulty in matching my tow car's meagre noseweight limit I am very nervous about ditching my Swift that tows faultlessly (I too towed in Katrina's wake) for something that needs such precise loading.

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I am sure this question has been raised before but as someone newly considering switching from a Swift to a Bailey Pegasus I would appreciate a straw poll of the nose weights required for best stability.

 

I have read stories that Baileys are very nose heavy ex works and often require significant counter balancing once bottles and batteries are added. I have seen ideal nose weights of 85-90kg mentioned.

 

My concern is that my tug which has a low noseweight limit of 75kg may have to be changed as well, if a Pegasus can't be towed safely at that low level. And of course that's assuming it could even be counter balanced safely to this low weight in the first place!

 

Comments please?

 

I think you will find it very difficult nay impossible to get near to 75kgs on the nose. They need all things to be right or they can be a pig of a tow if under 90kg. My Olympus was unpredictable certainly not an easy tow. I described it elsewhere as like a medicine ball on a trampoline very lively !

 

There are plenty of posts on AluTechs not being the most stable vans to tow with a lot of people resorting to transporting stuff that should be in the front being put in the rear/under beds to get it to behave.

 

Not impossible mind you but not easy either.

 

Jt

Coachman Pastiche

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got ours to 75kg, now running at 80kg . thinks its more stable a tad higher though but at the cars limit then .

it really shouldnt be such a fine art getting noseweight and towing stability just right.

never had this faff on other vans

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got ours to 75kg, now running at 80kg . thinks its more stable a tad higher though but at the cars limit then .

it really shouldnt be such a fine art getting noseweight and towing stability just right.

never had this faff on other vans

 

 

Sounds like a tow car change should come first.

 

Thanks

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whys that ? as i said, tows ok at 80kg the cars limit is 85kg . .

careful loading or change the car ? tricky one. ..not

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got ours to 75kg, now running at 80kg . thinks its more stable a tad higher though but at the cars limit then .

it really shouldnt be such a fine art getting noseweight and towing stability just right.

never had this faff on other vans

 

Aye,

 

Totally agree. In over 40 years towing i never had any significant issues with any other van. But EVERY time I loaded the Olympus it was a complete chew on to get it anywhere near normal. So many people are experiencing issues just begs the question why. I simply dont believe that by moving the battery back causes any significant improvement. I maintain the Alutechs with the lounge layout with the larger windowsills is a cause. Far too much weight forward of the axle and compounded by the fact its their first attempt at such configuration and they have got it wrong. The only other vans that are similar are continentals Burstner /Hymer and the like and they all have much longer A frames are as solid as a rock when towing. I for one would like to see Brit vans with the same.

 

Jt

Coachman Pastiche

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whys that ? as i said, tows ok at 80kg the cars limit is 85kg . .

careful loading or change the car ? tricky one. ..not

 

I suppose I have grown use to 'chucking' everything in the Swift and it towing impeccably.( I can vary noseweight between 70 and 85 and see no difference in stability)

 

The 'chucking' in, I hasten to add, is checked for noseweight before departure.

 

But I am not sure I could adopt the degree of extra ATD that it would seem is necessary with the Pegasus to keep it safe.

 

I would have felt more comfortable if the answers to the post had said its easy to get 85kg and that is heavy enough on a Peg.

 

But I am getting the impression I would be flirting with instability.

 

 

Aye,

 

Totally agree. In over 40 years towing i never had any significant issues with any other van. But EVERY time I loaded the Olympus it was a complete chew on to get it anywhere near normal. So many people are experiencing issues just begs the question why. I simply dont believe that by moving the battery back causes any significant improvement. I maintain the Alutechs with the lounge layout with the larger windowsills is a cause. Far too much weight forward of the axle and compounded by the fact its their first attempt at such configuration and they have got it wrong. The only other vans that are similar are continentals Burstner /Hymer and the like and they all have much longer A frames are as solid as a rock when towing. I for one would like to see Brit vans with the same.

 

Jt

 

I have heard this statement about long A frames before but never quite understood why this should improve stability. Can you explain?

I did note that the Pegasus has a shorter 'exposed' A frame section than the Swift. ..is that why the Swift tows better?

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Hi All,

 

My school day physics is not really up to working out why the long A frame should be important but I suspect there is someone on this forum who will be able to explain the principles of levers and moments! I too have been confused by the difference in A frame lengths so measured a Belgian friends Dethleffs while on holiday in the South of France. Not only was the a frame a different length:

 

Pegasus 524 - 57. 5 cms as against 146 cms on the Dethleffs.

 

The split between the the body in front of the wheel and behind it was also different:

 

On the Dethleffs it was an even 280 X 280 split

 

On the Pegasus it was 322 in front of the wheel and 284. 5 behind it.

 

Of course the layout was also different as the Dethleffs was twin rear single and a centre toilet.

 

So there is a combination of things going on here but my question would be: Would a longer A frame help the Pegasus? I'm not sure it would!

 

Cheers Anorak

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We bought or Peg 462 last November and bringing it home empty it towed ok with our Skoda 75klg max noseweight. First holiday took it to weighbridge and got a shock, was carrying 1380klg as apossed to the 1324klk still towed 0k. Next holiday checked noseweight and it just dropped down to max' weight on gauge Bl*** silly. Filled wardrobe up with all that was in front, towed like a dream from East Sussex to Northumberlaond and got 31mpg as well. I think that the ATC sorts out many problems.

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As mentioned elsewhere. I am changing my towcar early from a 75Kg noseweight perfectly good saloon to a 100Kg medium 4x4. The reason being that I am unhappy to permanantly run with everything against the rear wall of my Olypus 464 just so that I can achieve 75-80Kg.

 

Bailey's own funded reseach has shown that rear end loading creates a horizontal pendulum effect which can lead to snaking. So in achieving the 75 Kg noseweight limit I have deliberatly created a condition that is less safe in an extreme situation.

 

So the much loved saloon must go. Thank you Bailey!!

 

Bailey's pre Alutech seem to be fine.

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Mine is fine. No problems with noseweight at all. In fact fully loaded for a long trip only came out at 85 kg so took it up to 90 kg as it tows better at that.

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War200 didn't mention which model he is towing but it would be interesting to find out.

Every previous caravan I've had in 45 years towing has been light on the front when empty and easy to get right at the tow ball by loading normally. My Pegasus 462 tows perfectly. However with two lightweight bottles, the optional chest and not a great deal else I was shocked to be getting a nose weight of 150kg. One should not have to load up the bathroom to get the nose weight down to manageable proportions.

One doesn't have to be a genius to realise that if the van's nose weight is right when empty there's going to be difficulty when laden.

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  • 8 years later...

Hi. Very much later than everybody else we have just bought a used 2011:Pegasus Genoa 2 berth which has the optional chest of drawers at the front.

We have just completed our first trip in it and like most people have been having real problems with nose Weight. Never had any issues with our previous Compass and, buying a Bailey, a long established experienced manufacturer, I did not expect any problems. I was wrong. Have to admit I didn't check nose Weight before we set off. Got back yesterday and with the chest of drawers configuration and 2 light weight gas bottles with loading similar to our old van, I was gobsmacked to measure a nose Weight of around 120 kg.

I have a 2 litre 160 bhp Vauxhall Insignia and never had any issues towing with it until now.

This thing wobbles around a lot. 

Taking out a gas bottle and unscrewing the chest of drawers and sticking it in the bathroom reduces it by just over 20kgs but that will be a big faff every time we travel. Only another 15kg or so to go.

Will try shoving everything in the back and dusting off my old Bulldog 200Q mechanical stabiliser to counteract the rear weight pendulum effect.

I know Al Ko don't recommend it but I hope it will reduce the driving stress and the nervous noises from the front passenger seat.

I'll let you know how I get on

 

 

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I've never got my head round nose weight.... Yes I understand the 5 to 7% bit but I've got up to 150kg nose weight limit but with alko only rated at 100kg so 100kg is my limit too so if anyone knows better I don't go over 100kg regardless of the weight of the caravan.

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Some caravans are inherently nose heavy and others nose light.

To get our TA Lunar down to 100kg means loading virtually nothing forward of the axles and everything behind the axles.  (Our SA mover is on the rear axle and we have 35kg of aircon behind the axles!)

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I have had a 460/2 Genoa 2 for 8 years, the13Kg gas bottle and awning always travel in the car, the noseweight is about 85Kg and it tows fine behind the Xtrail.

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I have just purchased a 2020 Bailey Pegasus Grande Messina (Twin axle) and I am having massive problems to achieve the 85kg noseweight limit on my car (MB E220 estate). To achieve this everything has to be behind the axles.

One thing that bothered me was the position of the battery (mine weighs 25kg) the location is too way forward of the front axle - after removing the battery this did help, however this begged another question, would it be okay to tow without the caravan battery connected and operate lights & fridge via the car electrics?

 

thanks

 

Dean

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When towing the caravan lights and fridge operate from the car. Switch the caravan battery master off, set fridge to battery setting . Caravan battery should not be doing anything if the master switch in this situation as far as I know.

Our Unicorn Cadiz battery is quite a way back from the axle.  Van tows fine with  Santa Fe.

Edited by 664DaveS
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3 hours ago, Dean25767 said:

I have just purchased a 2020 Bailey Pegasus Grande Messina (Twin axle) and I am having massive problems to achieve the 85kg noseweight limit on my car (MB E220 estate). To achieve this everything has to be behind the axles.

One thing that bothered me was the position of the battery (mine weighs 25kg) the location is too way forward of the front axle - after removing the battery this did help, however this begged another question, would it be okay to tow without the caravan battery connected and operate lights & fridge via the car electrics?

 

thanks

 

Dean

Yes, it can be a nightmare - se my post above - and that is trying to get down to 100 kg.  We often back load in end bathroom by 10 to 15 kg, thats fresh water we carry and our box of tins of food.

Its more complicated checking the noseweight on a TA caravan.  You have to have the tow hitch at exactly the same height as the hitch will be on your car when you are towing.

If you check the noseweight with the hitch too high, less weight is supported by the front axle and more weight by the rear axle and the tow hitch, so you get an excessive noseweight reading.

And, we have the same problem with the battery being far forward.  I like to keep the battery in the caravan so it is fully charged for the mover when arriving on site.

Keep trying different loading plans - basically nothing in the lockers forward of the axles!

Good luck.

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