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Petrol Or Diesel?


landman
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Hi all,

 

I'm in a bit of a quandary and need some advise from the collective.

 

At the moment I drive a Ford S-Max with the 2. 5T petrol engine. This gives me about 220 bhp and 239 ft/lb of torque. By way of comparison the 140 & 163 PS diesel engines offer 251 ft/lb, and the 175 PS is 295 ft/lb.

 

So in reality I'm not far behind the diesel boys, but realise that my MPG will be much less than a diesel unit. That said I know of one S-Max owner who has the 240 PS petrol engine & he tows a 1,500 kg rig and achieved 23. 5 MPG during his summer holiday.

 

The real question is should I sell the car due to its age [just over 4 years], and mileage [just over 63,000 miles] and buy something newer & diesel-powered?

 

Not keen on the idea of stranding myself in the middle of France due to mechanical failure.

 

Thx,

 

Landman

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I don`t see why you should expect a car that is well on top of what is asked of it and has just loosened up nicely to self-destruct?

 

If you are off to France, why not just join the CC (if you aren`t already a member) and take advantage of their Red Pennant service, it`ll probably cost you about £130. 00 for a fortnight.

 

Yes, the diesel will be more economical, but as you are only doing 15k a year, it would take a hell of a long time to pay for itself unless you are that sure that you present steed has a catastrophic problem looming.

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Dont forget twice the clutch wear from a petrol . The clutch on a diesel is initially slipping and transfering power at 1500 - 2000rpm a petrol needs 4000 - 5000 rpm to do the same and develop the same power .

 

 

Dave

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The reason diesel is so expensive is because of the demand for it.

 

They can't all be wrong. ;)

Ford C-Max and Coachman Festival 380/2 SE 2006    Motto  Carpe Diem

Still trying to find the perfect pitch. ..110 amp Battery+ 65 watt roof mounted Solar and 25 watt Wind Turbine. LED lighting. Status Aerial 315. Loose chattels marked with UV,. Safefill Gas Fitted.

 

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Only 63,000 on the clock, hells teeth the engine is only just beginning to bed down.

I am an absolute diesel head, but having said that, why oh why consider changing your reliable and user friendly car as all you will achieve is to loose a bucket load of dosh!

If you want to reduce your running costs, it might be very worthwhile considering have an LPG conversion which you could get done by the following company for a cost of less than a grand http://www. professau. ..-ford-s-max. php, the only down side of an LPG conversion is that at the moment you wouldn't be able to use the Tunnel to come over to France. But the very real benefit would be an equivalent fuel consumption of approx. 38 mpg when towing !!

Edited by bigjimmy
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I have only ever towed with petrol engined cars. All Volvo, a Torslander, 850 T5, 240gl and currently an 850 2. 5 GLT. My god, the T5 used to leave cars standing even with 1200kgs in tow. Fantastic tow car, but you paid in fuel costs, probably in the teens lol!

My current 850 is 15yrs old and has 173,000 miles on it. Only last week I towed my current van (1000kgs) to Calais then into Kent, probably getting on for 400 miles each way. The car never missed a beat. Yours is barely run in, and as it will have A Ford built copy of the Volvo White block from 850's it has years of good service in it still. Just keep it well maintained. Good luck what ever choice you make.

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If its the 5cl 2. 5 ltr engine be aware that Ford have a modification for towing in that a 'run on' electric water pump is required to prevent hot spots in the cylinder head after switch off.

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You don't say what band your 2. 5 petrol runs at re max torque?

 

So I'll assume its a turbo car with max torque from around 2000rpm up to around 4500rpm?

 

No diesel can match that from your list.

 

As a tow car that will out perform all of the diesel alternatives on your list, except perhaps the the 175ps version, i assume thats the 2. 2?

 

I would tow again with a petrol turbo, but for the petrol consumption, if you can live with a lower mpg and higher VED, then defiantly stick with the petrol car, it will usually be a quieter car on tick over as well.

 

Isn't that the same engine that was fitted to the mondeo, that won the tow car of the year award?

 

Hi all,

 

I'm in a bit of a quandary and need some advise from the collective.

 

At the moment I drive a Ford S-Max with the 2. 5T petrol engine. This gives me about 220 bhp and 239 ft/lb of torque. By way of comparison the 140 & 163 PS diesel engines offer 251 ft/lb, and the 175 PS is 295 ft/lb.

 

So in reality I'm not far behind the diesel boys, but realise that my MPG will be much less than a diesel unit. That said I know of one S-Max owner who has the 240 PS petrol engine & he tows a 1,500 kg rig and achieved 23. 5 MPG during his summer holiday.

 

The real question is should I sell the car due to its age [just over 4 years], and mileage [just over 63,000 miles] and buy something newer & diesel-powered?

 

Not keen on the idea of stranding myself in the middle of France due to mechanical failure.

 

Thx,

 

Landman

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You don't say what band your 2. 5 petrol runs at re max torque?

 

So I'll assume its a turbo car with max torque from around 2000rpm up to around 4500rpm?

 

No diesel can match that from your list.

 

As a tow car that will out perform all of the diesel alternatives on your list, except perhaps the the 175ps version, i assume thats the 2. 2?

 

I would tow again with a petrol turbo, but for the petrol consumption, if you can live with a lower mpg and higher VED, then defiantly stick with the petrol car, it will usually be a quieter car on tick over as well.

 

Isn't that the same engine that was fitted to the mondeo, that won the tow car of the year award?

 

Found this from mr goggle

 

petrol unit. The 2. 5T, however, produces its 320Nm maximum between 1,500 and 4,800rpm while the Mondeo's 2. 0-litre 138bhp TDCi diesel develops its identical 320Nm top whack between 1,750 and 2,240rpm. The petrol's wider torque spread actually gives it greater flexibility and that goes in the plus column alongside its superior refinement and sporty character.

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Dont forget twice the clutch wear from a petrol . The clutch on a diesel is initially slipping and transfering power at 1500 - 2000rpm a petrol needs 4000 - 5000 rpm to do the same and develop the same power .

 

 

Dave

 

.

Diesel auto all the way.

2,5L to 3. 0L = relaxed and comfortable

 

Graham

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If its the 5cl 2. 5 ltr engine be aware that Ford have a modification for towing in that a 'run on' electric water pump is required to prevent hot spots in the cylinder head after switch off.

 

That's interesting.

 

I've been a member of the S-Max Owner's Club since 2006 and never heard of that mod.

 

Can I ask your source please?

 

Thanks.

 

You don't say what band your 2. 5 petrol runs at re max torque?

 

So I'll assume its a turbo car with max torque from around 2000rpm up to around 4500rpm?

 

No diesel can match that from your list.

 

As a tow car that will out perform all of the diesel alternatives on your list, except perhaps the the 175ps version, i assume thats the 2. 2?

 

I would tow again with a petrol turbo, but for the petrol consumption, if you can live with a lower mpg and higher VED, then defiantly stick with the petrol car, it will usually be a quieter car on tick over as well.

 

Isn't that the same engine that was fitted to the mondeo, that won the tow car of the year award?

 

No, it's the Volvo B5245T engine as fitted to various Volvo's and in particular to the Focus ST

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Thanks all for the replies.

 

Having worked the finances it's clear that I cannot fund both a company car & the S-Max, so I'm going to sell the car & buy a newer diesel-powered S-Max that will give me much better MPG on a day-to-day basis.

 

It has the 175 PS 2. 2 TDCi engine & should be a great tow car.

 

Next on the list :: Buy a caravan. ..

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The suggestion about clutches on diesel engines wearing less is not true. All modern manual diesel engines have a dual mass flywheel. These are known to fail and can cost £800 to £1200 to replace. Mine failed causing premature clutch wear and I got away with a bill for £800. if you are worried about your clutch then buy a petrol engine or a proper automatic.

 

poolebob

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That's interesting.

 

I've been a member of the S-Max Owner's Club since 2006 and never heard of that mod

 

Hi, it was my local Ford dealer.

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Yes, the diesel will be more economical, but as you are only doing 15k a year, it would take a hell of a long time to pay for itself unless you are that sure that you present steed has a catastrophic problem looming.

Believe me, having owned and towed with a 2. 5T Smax, it wouldn't take long at all to recoup the cost of buying a diesel version. We used to average about 19 to 20 mpg solo, mostly round town type driving. Also didn't find it as good as a diesel for towing, despite what the figures may suggest. Didn't think the clutch was up to it either. Nice car solo and good fun. See lots of surprised faces in the rear view mirror before they disappear backwards! Just too thirsty and expensive to tax for what it is.

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Went Diesel about 10 years ago on both cars.

 

Running a petrol car is simply voulenteering to pay more tax!

 

Not found a downside with modern diesels at all. Great for towing. The torque is ideal for the job.

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The suggestion about clutches on diesel engines wearing less is not true. All modern manual diesel engines have a dual mass flywheel. These are known to fail and can cost £800 to £1200 to replace. Mine failed causing premature clutch wear and I got away with a bill for £800. if you are worried about your clutch then buy a petrol engine or a proper automatic.

 

poolebob

 

 

OP has decided diesel, which gets my vote.

 

You say dual mass flywheels are prone to fail, what are you basing this info on? It's been my experience that a dmf is no more likely to fail than other components.

 

My Golf (150bhp/223ft. lb in standard form) has had various mods and is currently putting out 220bhp/324ft. lb and is still running (several years after the mods) on the original dmf with a mileage of over 100k.

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Hi Landman, just scanned your avatar - very clever. What software did you use to make that?

 

Cheers.

 

Erm, sorry, can't remember!

 

Think I Googled 'QR Code Generator Facebook', or something close to that.

 

 

 

OP has decided diesel, which gets my vote.

 

You say dual mass flywheels are prone to fail, what are you basing this info on? It's been my experience that a dmf is no more likely to fail than other components.

 

My Golf (150bhp/223ft. lb in standard form) has had various mods and is currently putting out 220bhp/324ft. lb and is still running (several years after the mods) on the original dmf with a mileage of over 100k.

 

The early build S-Maxes [prior to 07. 05. 07] seems prone to DMF failure.

 

Latter ones seem ok, but it's not unheard of for the odd failure, but my guess is that this would equally apply to all manufacturers.

 

Believe me, having owned and towed with a 2. 5T Smax, it wouldn't take long at all to recoup the cost of buying a diesel version. We used to average about 19 to 20 mpg solo, mostly round town type driving. Also didn't find it as good as a diesel for towing, despite what the figures may suggest. Didn't think the clutch was up to it either. Nice car solo and good fun. See lots of surprised faces in the rear view mirror before they disappear backwards! Just too thirsty and expensive to tax for what it is.

 

AKA Smarty156 on SMAXOC?

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OP has decided diesel, which gets my vote.

 

You say dual mass flywheels are prone to fail, what are you basing this info on? It's been my experience that a dmf is no more likely to fail than other components.

 

My Golf (150bhp/223ft. lb in standard form) has had various mods and is currently putting out 220bhp/324ft. lb and is still running (several years after the mods) on the original dmf with a mileage of over 100k.

 

Just do a google search of dual mass flywheel problems" and you will find plenty of examples. When I had a slipping clutch and was getting quotes, they all said "you will probably need a new dual mass flywheel as well,

 

A dmf is always going to be more prone to failure than a normal solid one which has nothing to fail.

 

poolebob

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When I had a slipping clutch and was getting quotes, they all said "you will probably need a new dual mass flywheel as well,

 

poolebob

 

Yep, I was told that as well. 30k miles later my new clutch and original dmf are fine.

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Never replaced any flywheel, only a clutch plate. And that was on a Mk1 cortina due to a crank case oil leak.

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Erm, sorry, can't remember!

 

Think I Googled 'QR Code Generator Facebook', or something close to that.

 

 

 

The early build S-Maxes [prior to 07. 05. 07] seems prone to DMF failure.

 

Latter ones seem ok, but it's not unheard of for the odd failure, but my guess is that this would equally apply to all manufacturers.

 

 

 

AKA Smarty156 on SMAXOC?

Yep, that's me. Not been on there since we sold it though, early last year.

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