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Gas Hob Problem


speedy555
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Just hoping someone can help! Ultimatley I will have the caravan checked at a dealers when Its been finished, but hoping someone can advise me first so I can save some time and trips. ...

In my Cheltenham Im restoring is a Flavel Vanessa cooker, which both leaked gas and had a burner rotted out. I managed to track down a burner (pictured) and a new set of gas seals, and everything on the face of it is fine. However, the new burner when turning it off quite often pops / blows back, and on 2 or 3 occasions when lighting has somehow travelled down the burner and ended up with the gas jet on the back of the valve actually lit instead :o

 

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That is the new burner, and the gas jet just points into/towards the end of it. Both burners etc seem identical. ..wondered what the problem may be. I dont want to wait months to either find its plain un-fixable, or to tow it to the dealers to be sent back to find some obsolete part - So Id rather get to the bottom of it first!

 

Also while Im at it, the fridge (RM212) works reasonably well on 240v but is a nightmare to light on gas and even after being on 6 hours, the fridge was only slightly colder than the air temp.

 

Thanks

Dave

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What gas regulator are you connecting to?

 

What Gas? Propane or Butane?

Edited by Lefthand Down

Ford C-Max and Coachman Festival 380/2 SE 2006    Motto  Carpe Diem

Still trying to find the perfect pitch. ..110 amp Battery+ 65 watt roof mounted Solar and 25 watt Wind Turbine. LED lighting. Status Aerial 315. Loose chattels marked with UV,. Safefill Gas Fitted.

 

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Screw on propane. The regulator is off my old caravan and is OK. ...the Carver heater lights OK (Though saying that it has 'fluttered' a couple of times when first lit), the other ring on the hob, the grille and oven seem fine too.

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I suspect the regulator. ........Change it and see if it makes a difference. They are not expensive

Ford C-Max and Coachman Festival 380/2 SE 2006    Motto  Carpe Diem

Still trying to find the perfect pitch. ..110 amp Battery+ 65 watt roof mounted Solar and 25 watt Wind Turbine. LED lighting. Status Aerial 315. Loose chattels marked with UV,. Safefill Gas Fitted.

 

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Thanks B)

I have a butane bottle with some gas in, and a new regulator for that, so might try swapping that over and see. How would that affect some items and not others? And would that tie in the fridge? Im trying to understand the possible cause / effect :)

Cheers

 

Incidentally, this is what was left of the old burner once I got it out :o

Photo043.jpg

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It may not be the regulator. The gas air mix sounds odd and this may mean the gas jet needs changing as well. Does the new burner work on the other ring?

 

Failing that you may need a gas safe fitter to give you help. There is as you say parts of the gas system working properly. The fridge will need a service by the sound of it and this is really a gas fitters job. . Take care.

Ford C-Max and Coachman Festival 380/2 SE 2006    Motto  Carpe Diem

Still trying to find the perfect pitch. ..110 amp Battery+ 65 watt roof mounted Solar and 25 watt Wind Turbine. LED lighting. Status Aerial 315. Loose chattels marked with UV,. Safefill Gas Fitted.

 

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With the symptoms you describe of flame travelling back to the jet, GET A QUALIFIED LPG GAS ENGINEER to sort it out and the fridge at the same time.

 

You simply cannot afford to take any chances with LPG, it WILL kill you given the chance

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Thanks. I dont take chances with gas, however, a 60 mile round trip just to be sent away as they cant get the parts is pointless. I just want to try and get it somewhere near (ie working) and then when the resto' is finished I can take it along to be checked out before anyone uses it. And if I find now that it needs some parts, I have a few months to search for them.

 

I will swap the burner round, and also see if the jets will clean, and see what happens. The Fridge probably will just need a service as suggested. ..its the hob flame travelling back to the jet that concerns me most!

 

Thanks for all your suggestions so far

Dave :)

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The gas jet hole size is extremely important and any cleaning will wreck it. They should NOT be touched at all. This is why you should replace not repair.

Ford C-Max and Coachman Festival 380/2 SE 2006    Motto  Carpe Diem

Still trying to find the perfect pitch. ..110 amp Battery+ 65 watt roof mounted Solar and 25 watt Wind Turbine. LED lighting. Status Aerial 315. Loose chattels marked with UV,. Safefill Gas Fitted.

 

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Quote "and also see if the jets will clean, and see what happens"

 

As Left Hand Down has said, the jets are a critical part of the appliance which should NOT be touched.

 

As for seeing what happens,,,if you get it wrong,as not knowing what you are doing you probablywill, not only you will "see what happens" so will eveyone in a 1/2 mile raidus.

 

GET AN ENGINEER and stop risking lives for the sake of a bit of inconvenience and your ego

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Ego has nothing to do with it - and being a very very simple cooker, I was just hoping someone with some experience of this very common unit could point me in the right direction as for things that can be easily checked, so I know Im not totally wasting my time with it.

I wont be cleaning the jets, thanks.

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As a fully qualified registered Gas Safe LPG engineer, what YOU think is a "very, very simple cooker" can, in fact KILL you simple as that.

 

In my opinion you are taking risks which could impact on not only yourself but that of innocent others, which if that happens, YOU will find youself answering to a court for your irresponsible actions

 

However, you seem intent on "doing your own thing" and ignoring safe advice.

 

I will however say once again, GET AN ENGINEER to sort it out.

Edited by Brecon
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Why am I intent on doing my own thing? Ive asked for advice, and taken the advice offered. At what point exactly did I say I wasnt listening?

It could have been one of those simple answers. ...oh yeah, you need a new thingymabob. ...which I could have then sourced, possibly fitted dependant on part, and GOT AN ENGINEER to check it and the whole van for me.

Obviously that isnt the case, and I need to GET AN ENGINEER.

 

I did ask an ENGINEER at the caravan dealers something else about the cooker, which they said they will check out, but doubted (In fact half heartedly tried) they would find bits for it if needed. If I had an Idea of likley part(s) needed, i could have been ready for that scenario.

 

I know it can kill me. ..along with the fridge, fire, and gas light

I AM NOT ignoring advice

I will GET AN ENGINEER

The same advice / answer could be be given, without talking to me like a child, with all this 'Ego' and 'intent on doing your own thing' 'answering to a court' rubbish.

 

Wish I hadnt have asked now! :rolleyes:

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Just a point about the 'fridge, I take it that it's not been used for a while. A tip I was given and it worked was to turn the fridge upside down for about 1 hour, turn it back, reconnect after about 3 hours and it has a good chance of working.

That way you are not interfering with the jets. setting etc. and if it works well and good, if it doesn't work you have lost nothing. All th best. :) Peter

Edited by peterjohn
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With the fridge Check that the baffle is in the flue, does the fridge that old use flints to light ? It can be a pain to get gas/air mixture right I always tried making the spark before pressing the gas. That way I find I don't get a bang and the gas blowing out.

with reards to the gas I seem to remember that when I caravaned as a child in the 70's if you wanted to run on Propane you had to change the jets so maybe it will run on butane without poping

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Thanks - Anything simple and cheap to try I will - If it works out something simple, all well and good, if not I'll wait until I can get it mobile again & to the dealers.

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hi speedy

years ago when i had a thompson t line there used to be a bolt on the supply to the rings and grill that you could adjust to get the right colour flame. i cant remember the colour it was adviced to run at, but that might be the case with yours

hope this helps

bill

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Thanks again for the helpful advice & suggestions. I'll have a look, but in the end Ive got to decide if its financially worth keeping. If it does need a lot of bits and bobs (The cooker) , they soon add up (Ive already spent a fair few quid on it, and countless hours!) - and as much as Id like it original, even sold as untested / spares it it probably worth enough to finance a more modern hob and oven (If they fit the gap!).

Cheers. dave

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Hi Speedy.

I won't shout I promise. FWIW

As a retired Plant and Building Services Engineer and Health and Safety Manager of many years (including being previously a CORGI registered engineer managing numerous engineers), might I offer the following. ..

If you understand what a WOBBE number is and how it might be influenced by the various aspects of combustion. ..then you might be 'competent' to assemble and modify burners and their constituent parts. If not, then, for your sake and those who might be in the vicinity should anything go wrong, then i would respectfully suggest that you get a 'Gas-safe' fitter to rebuild and test your burner. A lengthy one off round trip would pale into insignificance should the burner not be spot on when assembled. I would also suggest that as you are working with older equipment, many caravan technicians might not be willing to attempt a rebuild. It isn't rocket science but it most certainly is specialist.

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Thanks - I dont understand it all,no - and I dont want to do anything unsafe, and was partly why I was asking here. Also, as you suggest, getting anyone to take me seriously when I mention servicing it is a challenge! Externally it is in lovely condition, and seems a shame to pass it on to someone else, but if a more modern unit will fit the hole, then maybe thats the answer - at least it will be 'servicable' parts wise.

I will have to measure up! And while Im thinking, the Vanessa fitted just has a straight through pipe / flu from the wooden shelf the cooker stands on to, and through the floor. Do the more modern (Well, mid 1990's onwards kind of age. ..only 15 or so years old, instead of 32! lol) ovens vent in a similar way via the floor? Its not something Ive ever studied before on previous caravans, and would like to know if a more modern one would be suitable for that kind of venting.

 

Thanks again chestrefeldian - Good advice and taken on board.

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The "flue" you mention is not a flue, it is a gas drop hole, which must be present under every gas appliance to allow any escape of gas to fall out of the van and disperse.

 

I also note some maybe well intentioned "advice" in previous posts, particularly the turning of the fridge.

This is a very temporary possible relief for a partially blocked cooling coil, but a simple turn for 30 seconds and turn upright again is enough. It does not need to be left for 3 hours after before using one of the heating sources. The "fix" will only move the blockage, possibly, to anopther part and the fridge wil fail again in a relatively short time.

 

The other post was about the colour of the flame, there is only ONE safe colour, ther is no choice of a colour spectrum, anda flame will only tell you whether or not the gas is alight. You need a flue gas analyser to tell if the flame is correct and not producing lethal levels of Carbon Monoxide.

 

And another, still about the fridge and changing jets, that is certainly not possible as jet size is pre determined by the manufacturer togive the correct gas supply, correct flame height and correct cooling capability for the specific item and should never be changed.

Edited by Brecon
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Thanks - Im almost certainly going to get rid of the cooker on Ebay, to someone keener than me. (Measurements permitting) The fridge works well enough on 230v, just not on gas,although it lights, so expect that would just need a service (Hopefully). The bloke I got it from had it 13 years and did nothing to it at all, so I doubt very much it has ever been serviced in any way!

And of course it is a drop hole :blush: - I think it was just the very solid and somewhat elaborate way in which it is fitted that threw me. ...Thanks again. Dave

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What make and model of fridge is it? andI will have a look to see if any spares are still available for it.

 

As for selling the cooker, you must make it very clear that it is not in a safe working condition, or you would be held responsible for any injury caused by it being used.

Edited by Brecon
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Before I took the cooker out today, I just swapped the burners round with each other (Just a phillips screw, no direct gas connection) and the problem has now swapped sides! The burners look identical inside and out in every visible way. ..any ideas? As if it is just that, then the search for another may be on. Thanks.

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