Jump to content

Kerbweight Confusion


Steamdrivenandy
 Share

Recommended Posts

According to the data supplied by Kia their Cee'd models have two kerbweights but there's no definition of what makes up one of the two figures.

 

The first figure is the 'minimum kerbweight' (in the case of my car 1,426kg) which according to lots of sources is the weight of the car as it comes off the production line with a tankful of fuel but no cargo or passengers. Apparently some (?most/all) European manufacturers include a standardised 75kg driver in the figure as well.

 

But the second figure is headed 'maximum kerbweight' (in my cars case 1,509kg) for which I can find no definition anywhere. The difference in weights is 83kg, so it's not the standardised 75kg driver (maybe he's put on weight). Thinking about it it's a silly title anyway because surely the 'maximum kerbweight' can be whatever you decide to load the car to, right up to it's 'Gross Vehicle Weight'.

 

Autotrader quotes the 'minimum' figure in it's vehicle data and working on the 85% principle that gives a maximum MTPLM that can be towed of 1,212kg in my case. However the CC outfit checking database and a review article on my car in the CC magazine all use the higher figure which 'allows' an MTPLM of 1,282kg.

 

A difference of 70kg in the MTPLM may not sound much but it happens to cover a massive number of caravan models so I'd like to know what's correct and why there are two figures.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish Rod!

 

I don't think I've weighed under 13 stone for 50 years.

 

I'm a 108kg racing snake.

 

Does that make my Cee'ds kerbweight 1534kg and the 85% limit therefore 1,303kg? :)

 

Edit: Ah! except I've just been reminded the 'maximum towing weight' of the automatic Cee'd SW is 1,300kg

Edited by Steamdrivenandy

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 1. 6 Auto 5dr kerbweight 1373kg 1730kg gross according to Honest John (click details)

You only mention Auto, not which actual model Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the 1426kg I take it you have a 1. 6 CRDi 113bhp Auto? Checking around the net I found 85% = 1212kgs but the max towing weight is 1300kgs 91% for this car, figures supplied by Kia. Using the 1,509kg 85% as you say comes out at 1,282kg still below the 1300kgs.

Now im confused.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

estate or hatchback ? Petrol or Diesel?

 

Try here

 

http://www. cuddles. a. ..kerbweights. htm

 

http://www. cuddles. abelgratis. net/kia. htm

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a 1. 6 CRDi automatic SW (estate to you and me).

 

Kia's max. towing limit for it is is 1,300kg

 

85% advisory safe towing limit is either:

1426kg x 85% = 1212kg or

1509kg x 85% = 1282kg

 

The V5 introduces a completely new figure that I've not seen on any Kia literature, or anywhere else and says the Mass in Service/Revenue weight is 1468kg and 85% of that is 1248kg.

 

Mama Mia even more confused.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dont forget the weight of the towbar has to be added to the kerbweight and 85% is only a guide its not a rule also if you load the heavy items in the car you should not have any worries and dont exceed your Max Train Weight . Loading the caravan correct is the most important part for a stable outfit and no matter how heavy the tow cars wont stop the caravan snaking . I have seen pictures of small lightweight caravan overturning a Range rover .

 

 

 

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Poppy (our Eriba Troll) has an MPTLM of 1,200kg but as she has an enormous payload (compared to most UK made vans) with a MIRO of 920kg I don't think we get anywhere near her maximum weight, in fact I suspect we run at about 1150kg. However if we change to a UK made van we could be close to trouble.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it!

 

85% is not a rule!! it is a guide!!

 

"*Exclamation*! I've been towing for ten years, know exactly how to load my caravan, can load to get a correct nose weight, have the correct license to tow this weight, but I dont know from the manufacturers info if I am at 83% or 87%!! What do I do?!"

 

For god sake. You are legal and competant. Relax and stop worrying.

 

 

Not saying that is your attitutde, please dont get me wrong, but you see it sometimes with other peoples posts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The V5 figure of Mass in Service is the UK kerb side weight, the older V5's might have different figures.

So if you want to go by the guidance figure of 85% then use the V5 Mass in Service figure.

However in your case this is nearly the Kia's maximum towing weight of 1300kgs.

Not sure why the Kia's towing weight is so low considering the weight of the car but the 1300kgs must be adhered to.

So to tow at 85% is really your maximum not a guidance.

Just need to find a small light weight van.

Brian

 

 

It's a 1. 6 CRDi automatic SW (estate to you and me).

 

Kia's max. towing limit for it is is 1,300kg

 

85% advisory safe towing limit is either:

1426kg x 85% = 1212kg or

1509kg x 85% = 1282kg

 

The V5 introduces a completely new figure that I've not seen on any Kia literature, or anywhere else and says the Mass in Service/Revenue weight is 1468kg and 85% of that is 1248kg.

 

Mama Mia even more confused.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian,

I was very careful to not suggest it was a 'rule' as I know it can be like a red rag etc :)

However I'm an ex-Chugger (4 years with motorhomes) and have only been tugging Poppy for a couple of years (circa 3,000 miles) and I'm still not sure whether I actually like it I'm so I'm sticking to under 85% if I can.

I've just asked HJ what weight should be used and he's said MINIMUM kerbweight plus the weight of the driver and no mention of the towing apparatus weight.

So as he said 'the driver' and not 'a driver' I guess I can add MY weight and not just a nominal Slim Jim at 75kg.

So that's the MinKW 1426kg + Me 108kg = 1534kg X 85% = 1,303kg or 3kg above the max that the car's allowed to pull. So I'll revert to that.

 

Incidentally for some reason Kia allow the manual version of the car to tow 1400kg, possibly they consider the auto version of the drivetrain isn't up to hauling an extra 100kg. Mind with Mrs SDA, two bearded collies and assorted 'stuff' it does have to handle a fair weight anyway. (Ouch! :( )

Edited by Steamdrivenandy

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is on a silver plate in back of my vehicle could you tell me what these numbers mean ie train weight, gross weight. Manufacture weight,won't to get this right ???? :unsure: :wacko: :blink:

 

1655 KG

2655 KG

1 950 KG

2 860 KG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The weights are

Front axle max weight

Rear axle max weight

Gross vehicle max weight

Gross train weight

 

Is the 2655kg figure a typing error -should this be 1655kg?

 

The gross train weight seems very low, what vehicle is it?

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1655kgs Max vehicle weight,

2655 kgs Maximum Trainweight,

Axle 1 Maximum weight = 950kgs ,

Axle 2 Maximum weight = 860 kgs.

 

 

2655kgs - 1655 kgs = 1000kgs towing limit .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

2655kgs - 1655 kgs = 1000kgs towing limit .

 

Dave

 

I dont think it is as clear cut as that; it is only limited to 1000 kgs towing if the vehicle is at that time loaded to its 1655Kg limit.

 

The towing limit is the lesser of "what the maker quotes" or the real difference between the GTW and actual vehicle weight.

 

Back to the original question; in most cases the differences in quoted kerbweight cover the various build specs the vehicle is offered in from basic to "loaded" with all possible ex factory options.

All points to the stupidity attached to the 85% mass ratio guide figure whilst never touching on the more critical characteritics determining towing stability.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The weights are

Front axle max weight

Rear axle max weight

Gross vehicle max weight

Gross train weight

 

Is the 2655kg figure a typing error -should this be 1655kg?

 

The gross train weight seems very low, what vehicle is it?

Brian

 

Is the 2655kg figure a typing error -should this be 1655kg?

 

no this is what is actually stamped on the plate

 

the vehicle is a Peugeot Turbo diesel estate 1905 cc

 

have been towing caravans now for 20 odd years now, time to give up ??, no way :wacko: B):rolleyes:

Edited by bobdawkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

no this is what is actually stamped on the plate

 

the vehicle is a Peugeot Turbo diesel estate 1905 cc

Think I understand it after Daves post above, which I agree with.

I just interpreted your last two weights as 1950kg and 2860kg whereas they should be 960kg and 860kg with the first figure referring to the axle no.

Makes sense then

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maximum car weight is axle weights added together which is 1810kgs.

This would give trailer weight of 845kgs.

Seems the figures maybe could be wrong somewhere.

Brian

 

wouldn't 85% of 1810, be I think, 1538. 5, not that good with sums, always bottom of class, this may be one of those times, :( :wacko: :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 85% recommendation is based on kerb weight not max weight

The gross vehicle weight is always less than the sum of the individual axle weights to allow for unequal loading

The figures in Daves post #16 are the correct ones

 

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The maximum weight of the car subtracted from the train weight will give you the towed weight.

I think you are working on 85% of the combined axle loads.

Hence your figure of 1538. 5.

The figures quoted on my plate are front axle,rear axle, gross weight and train weight. Train weight minus gross car weight gives me towing limit.

It all works out on mine and I use the V5 "Mass in Service" figure as the kerb weight and this figure is the one that the 85% guidance figure applies to.

Roughly my train weight is 4250, gross weight 2200,towing limit 2050 and kerb weight 1645. I tow at 92% of the kerb weight.

The two axle weights are roughly the same as the gross weight, least they are in mine.

My car was made in Germany for the Uk and possible some figures differ as the uk V5 could be different.

Brian

 

 

 

 

wouldn't 85% of 1810, be I think, 1538. 5, not that good with sums, always bottom of class, this may be one of those times, :( :wacko: :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so lets see if I have this right, my kerb weight is 1655, that I believe is what they call the MiRO, and I take my weight of caravan using 85% recommendation from the 1655 number, to find out what I'm able to tow

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think you are correct on this one.

From the figures you have given 1655 is the maximum weight of the car not the kerb weight.

Have a look on your V5C and it might give the "Mass in Service" , use this as the kerb weight.

Again, as already mentioned by other posters, the maximum towing weight appears to be 1000kgs.

You are sure the figures are correct?

Brian

 

so lets see if I have this right, my kerb weight is 1655, that I believe is what they call the MiRO, and I take my weight of caravan using 85% recommendation from the 1655 number, to find out what I'm able to tow

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...