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Caravans In Outside Lane Of Three Lane Motorway

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All those that think driving at 71mph suddenly makes the driver a lunatic, whereas 70mph is safe really need to take a long hard look at their driving skills. I spent 6 years based in Germany and frequently drove at 100+mph. All legal and safe. I must have done thousands of miles at that speed and never had a prang. In fact, I saw far less in the way of accidents on the Autobahn than I have seen on British Motorways with their 'safer' 70mph limit.

 

Speed does NOT kill. Inappropriate speed and careless driving kills.

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All those that think driving at 71mph suddenly makes the driver a lunatic, whereas 70mph is safe really need to take a long hard look at their driving skills. I spent 6 years based in Germany and frequently drove at 100+mph. All legal and safe. I must have done thousands of miles at that speed and never had a prang. In fact, I saw far less in the way of accidents on the Autobahn than I have seen on British Motorways with their 'safer' 70mph limit.

 

Speed does NOT kill. Inappropriate speed and careless driving kills.

 

I bet you also saw far less traffic on the autobahn than on the average motorway. And as the majority of autobahn does have a speed limit for certain vehicles and areas where slower vehicles are banned from overtaking it makes driving in the overtaking lanes safer to some extent. And as someone who has also done thousands of high speed miles (and had a ticket for speeding on the autobahn (just under £230 - IIRC it was a base fine of 100 DM + 5DM per KmH over the limit) I would tend to agree that if you are in an environment where high speeds are expected then you can get away with higher speeds. But when you do you take on a huge responsibility for your actions and if you fall foul of the law then you need to accept that you are to blame.

 

In my case not only did I get the fine, but as I could not afford to pay it in one I had to go the Paymaster and ask him to do it and stop the money from my pay. And that also then cost me a month of extra duties and I was lucky I did not get my BOAR permit revoked.

 

And speed does not kill. Nope, it is changes to momentum that usually does it, and that includes accelerating the human body as well as decelerating it.

 

 

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The one thing I will add, re the speed limits in Germany etc relates to the fact that when the UK motorway speed limit of 70 mph was set (cars etc) then we were pottering about in 1200 cc Vauxhall Vivas, Ford Escorts and so on. Since then, the performance of vehicles has been upgraded, but so have other car systems such as standard ABS, airbags, better braking systems etc. I personally feel the UK speed restrictions are out dated "for the majority of vehicles". However, the reaction time of the driver, coupled with correct spacing between vehicles and so on is also critical to motorway safety.

 

I have towed a car with a motorhome but I have not towed a caravan with a car, so I cannot really comment about safe speeds and stopping distances for a car and caravan.

 

About 20 years ago, I was travelling on a coach to London and we were involved in a major accident. The coach stayed somehow upright but turned 90 degrees and was effectively blocking all three lanes of the carriageway. The first we new of it was a bump bump as we hit the crash barrier. We got out of the rear emergency exit and the outside scene was horrendous. Ahead of the coach was a lorry on top of a car and news reports later confirmed three coaches, numerous cars and the lorry were involved. This was between Chesterfield and Mansfield on the (what I call) down hill section heading towards junction 28. I think it was summer(ish) 1990 or 1991.

 

Russell

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The one thing I will add, re the speed limits in Germany etc relates to the fact that when the UK motorway speed limit of 70 mph was set (cars etc) then we were pottering about in 1200 cc Vauxhall Vivas, Ford Escorts and so on. Since then, the performance of vehicles has been upgraded, but so have other car systems such as standard ABS, airbags, better braking systems etc. I personally feel the UK speed restrictions are out dated "for the majority of vehicles". However, the reaction time of the driver, coupled with correct spacing between vehicles and so on is also critical to motorway safety.

 

 

 

Technology might have advanced but people still die :rolleyes:

 

I get fed up with comments like this. Our technology has it's limitations

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I quite agree but you could get run over by a tractor doing 10 mph or even a mobility four wheel car thing on the pavement.

 

There will always be rights and wrongs in anything.

 

Most of my touring is overseas but I am certain there are less accidents in France, Italy, Switzerland etc than there are in the UK.

 

Russell

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In my case not only did I get the fine, but as I could not afford to pay it in one I had to go the Paymaster and ask him to do it and stop the money from my pay. And that also then cost me a month of extra duties and I was lucky I did not get my BOAR permit revoked.

 

 

What has hunting wild pigs to do with speeding? :unsure:. ...............................................................;)

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Hi Trevor, Next time you are on the M25 in Essex (near to where I live) keep your eyes scanned as you appraoch the Dartford tunnel /bridge.

 

The minimum limit seems to be only in the tunnel as I posted earlier.

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Most of my touring is overseas but I am certain there are less accidents in France, Italy, Switzerland etc than there are in the UK.

 

Russell

 

That may be your perception but I'm afraid the figures don't support it. If you look here: http://www. google. co. uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&sqi=2&ved=0CHkQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fec. europa. EU%2Flietuva%2Fdocuments%2F1177679582_press_stats_en. pdf&rct=j&q=european%20road%20accident%20rates&ei=vJcuToGqB46x8QPjvbRg&usg=AFQjCNHdpB0Yggz60IkziqZNsyry5Nb03w&sig2=HeDwpAJYoMx9MxtFEBIT4Q (pdf document) then you'll see that for 2006 (last year quoted) there were 4,703 fatalities in France), 5,428 in Italy (both with similar populations to UK) but only 3,355 in the UK.

 

It must be said however that the rate is dropping much faster in those 2 countries.

Edited by iansoady

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Interesting stats Ian, cheers!

 

I based my findings on simply a very few number of incidents seen on the roads overseas.

 

Russell

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Even though cars technology has improved beyond comprehension to that of the 1970's

 

The caravans technology hasn't.

 

It still has exactly the same format as 45 years ago -- oh yes they have got bigger and more luxurious etc.

But they are still just a box on a frame with very out dated running gear systems.

 

When we were caravaning in America - looking at "trailers" over there they had a total different system -- electrical or hydraulic brakes. "Dampers" fitted in differing places on the chassis. etc.

 

Their towing speed [varies from state to state] we found [in California] to be max of 50 mph. With safety checks and plating each year.

 

Their construction is 21st century rather than 20th century running gear in the UK.

When the caravan industry in the UK develops caravans that have the same safety factors as the cars that tow them

-- then they may be able to tow them at the speeds of the car.

 

Until then, the caravan is stuck with a low tech running gear - low speed chassis with a high tech box on top. Being towed by a very high tech vehicle that on its own could stop "on a sixpence" -- but not with a ton of trailer behind that dont know how to stop, unless the over run brakes are pushed by the van pushing into the stopping tow vehicle.

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i feel speed limits are outdated myself. ...but. ......

ive driven lgv1 vehicles for 18 years now and am confused as to why hgv vehicles are limited to 56. ..or in my case 53 mph. now you simply have slower moving vehicles .

the speed limit of 60 was put in place years ago and the vehicles now are equipt with abs,taction control etc so why slow them down???

as for motorway speed limits,im very comfortable travelling at speed but its clear that some drivers arent. i think the speed you can drive at should be based on your ability.

the m25 is largley 4 lanes now. ...........................4 lanes of people driving at 60 mph??????

why do people feel that they have to sit in the middle lane???? keep left unless overtaking!

i absolutley detest people who drive slowly in the middle lane and then accelerate when you try to pass them (picasso driver on A13 2 weeks ago)??

its stupid and dangerous,move over, and stay over unless your overtaking . simple as that. id be happy to see people fined for "middle laning" or "rubber necking" at accidents .

i feel people get too complacent in cars now they have electronic everything. abs,air bags,traction,esp etc. i dont use the phone while driving yet it seems half the nation still does?????

personally i think smoking while driving should be banned too. my wife lost a college friend through a smoking while driving accident.

 

sadly i think common sense has been replaced by technology.

that said, if the cars saftey features are so good and clever,why do i need to deactivate it all to drive safely in the snow :blink:

i say turn it all off and learn to drive all over again. ...............and then re-read the highway code. ;)

 

sorry, dont use the outside lane unless told to do so by police/traffic officer or by overhead gantry signs :D

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- double posted sorry -

 

 

Edited by WAYNEOX

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You could argue that any vehicle that is not permitted to travel in the 3rd lane should anticipate this
the law clearly states that a towing vehicle cannot enter the outside lane. .. not the third lane of a road with three or more lanes. .. so in a five lane road it can enter lanes 1 to 4. .. in a four lane road 1 to 3 and in a three lane road just lanes one and two. ..

 

Another example is the M14 where it seperates from the M11 (i think), the inside lane becomes the M14 with lanes 2 and 3 being the M11, so the question is, are you allowed in the 3rd lane when that lane is actually the outside lane of what will become a dual carriageway. :blink::blink: :blink:

 

again until you pass the point of no return [ usually the last 100 yards or so where the motorway actually spllits. .. it is still considered the m11. .. so your stuck in lane 2 until it is split. .. and then if it is due to become three lanes again,,, dont move over,,, however

 

where the m40 meets the m42 im sure the police and all sane people would not mind a caravan moving over to the outside lane to allow ajoining traffic filter into lane 2 of the motorway safely as long as you moved back in. ... (although if something happened you broke the law so would be screwed. .. lol

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People like you give people like me a bad name. To travel at 75mph towing a caravan is unacceptable and reckless to say the least

 

 

agreed. , now i get on the motorway get to about 55 and cruise control on. sit back enjoy the drive. .. (as much as is possible with the people splicing you up,) unhitch at the sites etc. .. if i go back on the motorway unhitched i let my little speed demon inside out. ...)

 

I'm dreading one of the forementioned trouser filler moments. but lol you know your limits etc. if your car or van had a blowout. then we'd all find out on the news./... people dont realise its not just their lives and those of the poeople in the car but basically any number of people behind that could get clipped. .. it amazed me to see a guy towing a van just sixty or so i crapped myself and was half on the hard shoulder as he passed witht he van bouncing around and him on his mobile. .. insane. .

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OK lets do the reverse !!

You have a 1970 1900cc car [ probably top of its range -- Zephyr or Zodiac. ..]

 

And you are on the motorway with a brand new 2011 caravan -- just on the limits of 85%..

 

your car has power !! no doubting that. .

 

BUT would you take it up to 70 MPH and cruise on the motorway and expect to be able to stop if something happened. .

 

For me - I know that I wouldn't. . the brakes for one would not be good enough - the steering would be all over the place.

 

And that is the same as having a 2011 car with a brand new caravan with 1970's running gear. .

The car might stop --- but the caravan would either jack-knife - snake - or turn over. .

They simply are not built for speed - or stopping at speed. .

 

Maurice

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OK lets do the reverse !!

You have a 1970 1900cc car [ probably top of its range -- Zephyr or Zodiac. ..]

 

And you are on the motorway with a brand new 2011 caravan -- just on the limits of 85%..

 

your car has power !! no doubting that. .

 

 

I am not so sure about the power, I once had a triumph 2000 estate which was quite a hot motor for its time, but when I look back at the specs it was a 6 cylinder engine with 90BHP.

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But then it weighed quite a bit less. Compare and contrast a real BMC Mini with the bloated excuse for a copy by BMW. There was an experiment done recently, where a cardboard replica BMC mini was assembled INSIDE a BMW "mini".

 

I would also disagree about brakes etc on older vehicles. Apart from ABS, there is not much that has changed in brake technology since the 70s. Engine efficiency I will give you though. Well over 100bhp per litre is easy these days, my Essex 3L is about 40bhp per litre!

Edited by ajlelectronics

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I am not so sure about the power, I once had a triumph 2000 estate which was quite a hot motor for its time, but when I look back at the specs it was a 6 cylinder engine with 90BHP.

I had a Tri-umpf Vitesse that had the same engine with twin carbs! 104 bhp in a car that weighed just under a tonne, poor brakes and Rotoflex suspension on the back. Exciting to drive though. Very exciting. It had it's back end out more often than my ex-partner. ...

 

 

 

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Question. ..Is the World Record Speed for towing a 'van still 128. 8?..........Cosworth I think on an airfield. ......I remember a Viper doing something similar with a prehistoric ( i,e, Cosalt) Abbey on once. .........

 

geoff

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I had a Tri-umpf Vitesse that had the same engine with twin carbs! 104 bhp in a car that weighed just under a tonne, poor brakes and Rotoflex suspension on the back. Exciting to drive though. Very exciting. It had it's back end out more often than my ex-partner. ...

Offset pedals for tall blokes and a habit of going

sideways on bends then stopping like a cat on wet lino!

Those were the days!

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