AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 What is my Kerbweight?. Hi to you all out there. Please help/support me on this one,you may be next!. The details that I am going to post are lifted directly from my EEC Certificate of Conformity (for complete vehicles).A Directive became Mandatory on the 20th September 1995;The car was made in 1997 and first registered in the UK on 11-06-1997. The car is a Very Specific Model and year of its' 'Family Group' and the EEC certificate bares the Vin Ref of my car; NO OTHER. 1 Number of axles: 2 and wheels :4 2 Powered axles: 1 12. 1 Mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order: 1576kg 12. 2 Mass of the vehicle (excluding driver,coolant,oil,fuel): 1426kg 14. 1 Technically permissible maximum laden mass: 2020kg 14. 2 Distribution of this mass among the axles: 1030kg 2. 990kg 14. 3 Technical permissible mass on each axle: 1070kg 2. 1010kg 17. Maximum mass of trailer (braked): 1600*kg (unbraked): 500kg 18. Maximum mass of combination: 3620kg 19. 1 Maximum vertical load at the coupling point for a trailer: 75kg If you are not up-to speed on EU Directive 95/48/EC Definition of Kerbweight;then look in Practical Caravan Magazine (towards the back) Essential Information: Caravan Basics (Glossary). This is directed to the Forum for the benefit of the Newbies;Please do not frighten them away with Gobble-de-Gook. Thank you all in advance; and in anticipation of your participation in what is not a useless exercise, 'Believe Me'. All will be revealed in due course. Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lord Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Kerbweight is 1576kg Unladen mass is 1426kg Meaning that the MPTLM of any towed trailer for anyone with a B licence ( one gained after 01/01/1997 ) is 1426kg. Bill Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerL Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Kerbweight is 1576kg Unladen mass is 1426kg Meaning that the MPTLM of any towed trailer for anyone with a B licence ( one gained after 01/01/1997 ) is 1426kg. No - kerbweight is 1576kg and it's used for the Towing Ratio calculation - in the example given, a B only licence holder would be restricted to a 1480kg MTPLM trailer to comply with the outfit maximum of 3500kg (2020kg + 1480kg). The 1426kg is the dry weight of the vehicle, used in some fiscal calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi chaps:- Bill Lord & RogerL,the first two into the Lucky Bag of Gobble-de-Gook. I suppose it could be said "that I have the privilege of inside dealing info' or just cheating". This exercise:- believe me, will open a few already punctured 'Cans of Worms'. If this was a game of Snakes & Ladders you would be both back at Start!. Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Most of those infromation can be found on the V5C and plate on the car. So what is it your are trying to tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Most of those infromation can be found on the V5C and plate on the car. So what is it your are trying to tell us. No it can't be, and no it is not on mine!,and the Vin Plate is not the source anyway. .Next please!.Patience is a Virtue and often rewarded with The Advantage of Knowledge. Knowledge in this case is the detail in the said directive and the use of some Schoolboy/Schoolgirl maths & calculations of known mass/weight/volume details. Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarty Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 If you're trying to find out the kerbweight of the car (i. e. without driver, empty fuel tank etc) then I don't think you can from that info. Reason being, isn't the MIRO of the car including oil etc plus 90% full fuel tank plus 75kg for the driver? Unless you know the weight of the fuel you can't work out the empty weight. Why do you want to know the Kerbweight anyway rather than the MIRO as per the EU rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 No it can't be, and no it is not on mine!,and the Vin Plate is not the source anyway. .Next please!.Patience is a Virtue and often rewarded with The Advantage of Knowledge. Knowledge in this case is the detail in the said directive and the use of some Schoolboy/Schoolgirl maths & calculations of known mass/weight/volume details. Don't know what the flipping question is ne'er mind the flipping answer and I dont need to come on CT to check whether or not I remember schoolboy maths. Sam Range Rover Sport - Auto Sleepers Kensington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lord Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) No - kerbweight is 1576kg and it's used for the Towing Ratio calculation - in the example given, a B only licence holder would be restricted to a 1480kg MTPLM trailer to comply with the outfit maximum of 3500kg (2020kg + 1480kg). The 1426kg is the dry weight of the vehicle, used in some fiscal calculations. I am going to disagree Roger. The unladen Mass as defined by the UK regulations is what you describe as the dry weight. The Licence condition for someone with a B licence is that the MPTLM of the caravan must not exceed the unladen mass of the is dependant upon the UK definition of unladen weight as opposed to the EU definition of Kerbweight. Edited September 13, 2010 by Bill Lord Bill Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lord Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Apparently for some reason I do not have the permission to edit my post above so I would prefer this message to take it's place No - kerbweight is 1576kg and it's used for the Towing Ratio calculation - in the example given, a B only licence holder would be restricted to a 1480kg MTPLM trailer to comply with the outfit maximum of 3500kg (2020kg + 1480kg). The 1426kg is the dry weight of the vehicle, used in some fiscal calculations. I am going to disagree Roger. The unladen Mass as defined by the UK regulations is what you describe as the dry weight. The Licence condition for someone with a B licence is that the MPTLM of the caravan must not exceed the unladen mass of the car is dependant upon the UK definition of unladen weight as opposed to the EU definition of Kerbweight. The secondary condition that the Maximum Allowable Mass of the outfit must not exceed 3500kg does not give the right for the driver to exceed the 1426kg which is the unlade mass of the car. Bill Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian dunning Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 No it can't be, and no it is not on mine!,and the Vin Plate is not the source anyway. .Next please!.Patience is a Virtue and often rewarded with The Advantage of Knowledge. Knowledge in this case is the detail in the said directive and the use of some Schoolboy/Schoolgirl maths & calculations of known mass/weight/volume details. Oh I give up! If you have relevant information why not just tell us which may prevent somebody from breaking the law or worse? At the moment we are all being strung along and I am too old to worry about where this is going. Still interested though but I'll butt out 'til the end , Regards, Ian. Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerL Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 I am going to disagree Roger. The unladen Mass as defined by the UK regulations is what you describe as the dry weight. The Licence condition for someone with a B licence is that the MPTLM of the caravan must not exceed the unladen mass of the is dependant upon the UK definition of unladen weight as opposed to the EU definition of Kerbweight. Bill, "12. 2 Mass of the vehicle (excluding driver,coolant,oil,fuel): 1426kg" is NOT the unladen mass, it's the mass as described. To be pedantic, unladen mass includes coolant, oil and fuel but not the driver. EC legislation which drives the B only licence restrictions uses kerbweight as defined by "12. 1 Mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order: 1576kg" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outnumbered Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Don't know what the flipping question is ne'er mind the flipping answer and I dont need to come on CT to check whether or not I remember schoolboy maths. ++++++++++++++++++++1111111111111111111111111111111111. KIA SORENTO KX3 2012 Bailey Pageant Limousin SERIES 7 1700 kg volvo xc70 D5 se Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lord Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Bill, "12. 2 Mass of the vehicle (excluding driver,coolant,oil,fuel): 1426kg" is NOT the unladen mass, it's the mass as described. To be pedantic, unladen mass includes coolant, oil and fuel but not the driver. EC legislation which drives the B only licence restrictions uses kerbweight as defined by "12. 1 Mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order: 1576kg" We will never agree from my readings the licence restriction is governed by the Uk legistlation and uses the Uk defined unladen mass of the vehicle including oil and coolant but no fuel or driver. Bill Growing old is compulsory, growing up is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerL Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 We will never agree from my readings the licence restriction is governed by the Uk legistlation and uses the Uk defined unladen mass of the vehicle including oil and coolant but no fuel or driver. That definition of unladen mass just isn't recorded for any modern vehicle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 If you're trying to find out the kerbweight of the car (i. e. without driver, empty fuel tank etc) then I don't think you can from that info. Reason being, isn't the MIRO of the car including oil etc plus 90% full fuel tank plus 75kg for the driver? Unless you know the weight of the fuel you can't work out the empty weight. Why do you want to know the Kerbweight anyway rather than the MIRO as per the EU rules? Hi 'Smarty'.Which EU rules are they?.I think you have your abbreviations confused. The term MiRO is in relation to Caravans and not the car. The only abbreviations that are of any consequence for this Post Subject are:- EU,EC & EEC. I know what the Caravan MiRO is,what the MTPLM is,what my maximum permitted towing weight is,also what the maximum weight on the ball is. Oh and by the way!,do you know that the weight on the ball is counted as part of your vehicles payload?. Kerbweight as per the EU Directive (In strict Accordance is the Header & includes the Driver @68kgs. For the purposes of the calculation of fuel weight I would use & have done-so when needed; the following :- for regular unleaded,1ltr= 0. 732kgs & for diesel 1ltr= 0. 839kgs both at circa 15*C/42*F. Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanadana Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 We're stilll none the wiser <p>Hannah & DanSterling Europa 500 2003 pulled by a Mitsubishi Outlander Warrior 2. 0Three kids, one mad dog, 2 Guinea Pigs, 2 snakes and a very busy life :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) We will never agree from my readings the licence restriction is governed by the Uk legistlation and uses the Uk defined unladen mass of the vehicle including oil and coolant but no fuel or driver. Hi Bill,I think you will find that 12. 2 is what is what eeeeeeeeeeeeey when I weeeerree a lad was known as Dry Weight. Totally Dry. The term Ex Factory Weight was often regarded as:-ready to drive with approx' 1gallon of fuel in the tank. I believe it was often referred to as Kerbside Weight. This is getting away from the Header of the Post. Edited September 13, 2010 by TheTravellingRooster Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 If you are not up-to speed on EU Directive 95/48/EC Definition of Kerbweight I can honestly say I am not upto speed on that and don't plan to be T 2014 Porsche Cayenne | 2010 Coachman Pastiche Platinum 560/4 | 1967 Wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) We're stilll none the wiser Hi again 'hanadana'. Hang on in. The most valuable lessons that I have had in life are; Read,Mark,Inwardly Digest & Learn from the mistakes of others. Believe me;I have learned a lot over the years,mainly because of the impatience of others. Edited September 13, 2010 by TheTravellingRooster Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beejay Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Please do not frighten them away with Gobble-de-Gook. So, what is the kerbweight of your 1997 Volvo V70 T5 Auto? And. ...are we bovvered? You were running this nonsensical trend on other forums before transferring it to this one. Make your point. ....if there is one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outnumbered Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 (edited) So, what is the kerbweight of your 1997 Volvo V70 T5 Auto? And. ...are we bovvered? You were running this nonsensical trend on other forums before transferring it to this one. Make your point. ....if there is one 1600kg according to the weighbridge at morley:) Edited September 13, 2010 by outnumbered KIA SORENTO KX3 2012 Bailey Pageant Limousin SERIES 7 1700 kg volvo xc70 D5 se Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 I can honestly say I am not upto speed on that and don't plan to be T Let me know If you get nailed for an infringement. I will do my best impression of A Scouser Philadelphia Lawyer;but not in your defence; I'm afraid. Ignorance is "No Defence". Oh by the way if you intend to go into Europe and through the Benelux Countries make sure you have a bottomless pit of money to meet the fines. Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Let me know If you get nailed for an infringement. I will do my best impression of A Scouser Philadelphia Lawyer;but not in your defence; I'm afraid. Ignorance is "No Defence". Oh by the way if you intend to go into Europe and through the Benelux Countries make sure you have a bottomless pit of money to meet the fines. More chance of hell freezing over than me getting nicked for an infringement T 2014 Porsche Cayenne | 2010 Coachman Pastiche Platinum 560/4 | 1967 Wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanadana Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi again 'hanadana'. Hang on in. The most valuable lessons that I have had in life are; Read,Mark,Inwardly Digest & Learn from the mistakes of others. Believe me;I have learned a lot over the years,mainly because of the impatience of others. We're hanging on. ......patiently <p>Hannah & DanSterling Europa 500 2003 pulled by a Mitsubishi Outlander Warrior 2. 0Three kids, one mad dog, 2 Guinea Pigs, 2 snakes and a very busy life :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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