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France- Speed Stickers-Up Date Re Size & Location.

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The facts are that, Under European law (and whether one likes it or not)we live in it. The Euro law is that if a vehicle and it's signage is legal in it's registered country then it is legal in all member countries. It matters not in law if a member state makes laws unto it's own registered vehicles, It becomes law to all that the new speed limit is kept, But not law to all to signage their vehicles. It is true to say that the police will not know whether the driver of a vehicle should be questioned as to it's speed because it lacks the relevant signage, But the foreign vehicle will not have broken any Euro laws. The problem is with the new laws that a member Euro country make and how to implement it on foreign nationals without breaking the euro laws that they have signed up to. Yes it can and will be a problem for some and I suppose that for peace of mind one can simply comply, But the law is the law and without the signage foreign nationals are not outside of what is legal. There is a degree of lacking from the various governing bodies of Europe in educating the relevant enforcement agencies that there is a distinct difference between state law and Euro law and Euro law is that which all member countries must learn to live with, Otherwise there is no point to it.

 

Now that's what I understood (having driven in most EU countries and lived in a few).

 

But it's the need for a reference ruling that eludes me.

 

I will probably get a card made up that explains (in French) my interpretation of EU rules wrt signage. .. of course if I am caught speeding anywhere in Europe then I will obviously have to accept the consequences.

 

G.

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Give a thought for others caught by foreign laws. ..................

 

The display of speed stickers not required by Swiss law is illegal in Switzerland.

 

Die Zahl 100 der Tempo 100 plakette muss in der Schweiz abgedeckt sein = Tempo 100 stickers must be covered in Switzerland.

 

 

Swiss caravanners who have obtained German Tempo 100 approval have a 100 sticker applied by the German test station and these stickers are the "self destruct" type to prevent them being transferred between vehicles (as are the Umwelt stickers. ..it's a German thing).

The 100 stickers have to be covered up in Switzerland and the Swiss Touring Club can provide a metal plate to be fixed to the caravan to which the German test station will apply the sticker. The plate comes with a slide in cover to obscure the 100 sticker. And it only costs CHF125 (£77)Don't believe it ? here it is Swiss sticker mount. :o

 

So if a Swiss caravanner goes to Spain does he need three plates for the two French stickers as well as the German one and what about the Spanish "long vehicle" marker plates? :unsure:

 

 

The use of vehicles complying to national regulations is tolerated throughout the E. U. but it is not a right. Can anybody show where U. K. Construction and Use regs exempts non complying foreign vehicles? There is nothing in the French Code de la Route which does so.

It follows that if the French and Spanish authorities wish to enforce a national regulation they are at liberty to do that.

 

Of course such a ruling can work both ways. .......

A B entitlement driving licence in France covers vehicles up to 12 tonne MAM and a motor cycle up to 125cc and U. K. licence holder is permitted the same right in France.

 

Who is prepared to dispute the facts with a foreign policeman and attend a foreign court to obtain a definitive ruling? Until that happens we are all guessing.

Edited by beejay

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Spain, France and all countries in the European Union have signed an agreement that rules affecting vehicles registered within their country will not be imposed upon vehicles registered in another member state, Providing that the use and construction of that vehicle are legal within their own country. If it is the assumption of those that it may affect that they can now go back on that agreement and impose new ruling on visiting foreign nationals then all one can suggest is to comply. It certainly helps none confusing the issue with irrelevancies, It will no doubt in time come before the European court if enough foreign nationals are fined, And the European court will rule in favor of the signed document in Brussels. Time and time again we see these countries showing complete ignorance followed by arrogance when they are confronted with the facts of what their diplomats have signed for.

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1) Spain, France and all countries in the European Union have signed an agreement that rules affecting vehicles registered within their country will not be imposed upon vehicles registered in another member state.

 

2) It certainly helps none confusing the issue with irrelevancies,

 

 

3) Time and and again we see these countries showing complete ignorance followed by arrogance when they are confronted with facts of what their diplomats have signed for.

 

 

1) Can you give a reference to the agreement you mention. . Whilst it is true that tolerance is given to the differences in national construction regulations are you sure there is an agreement of acceptance? Harmonisation in European vehicle construction is probably close to 100% these days but there are some anomalies which are not acceptable, headlamp dip patterns for example. .

In an attempt at clarification I have written to the DRIRE in France asking if the speed stickers are required on visiting foreign registered vehicles. I won't hold my breath awaiting a reply but you never know. .

 

 

2) It may not be irrelevant if a U. K. car with a Tempo 100 sticker (like mine) ventures into Switzerland without covering it.

 

3) . .... Bit strong:huh: In many ways the French defend themselves well from EU interference perhaps the U. K. could try it sometimes?

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let's face it, we all have our own understanding of these laws and will each do what we feel is right - some will ignore them completely, some will do what they believe is right and some will worry every time they see a policeman in any country in case they've got something wrong.

the speed stickers and long vehicle signs don't affect how you drive safely, that's down to each individual. ..and in my opinion that's far more important.

we've been going abroad for many years and have only been stopped once. ..without the caravan on the back! all they wanted to see was proof of our insurance and once we had shown it to them we were waved politely on our way :)

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What signage one has to apply to the rear of their vehicle/trailer depends entirely on what identification plate the vehicle/trailer has on the rear (under euro law), That is to say, if you are traveling from the UK with a GB badge you will not come under Euro law but under the use and construction rules that apply to the nationals of the country that you are traveling through.

 

If that country requires speed stickers or signage boards then they should be fixed in accordance with the rules. But if your vehicle has an EU identification on the trailer and on the towing vehicle then under the Euro use and construction rules if that vehicle as it stands is legal in it's own registered country then it is legal anywhere in Europe.

 

Many of us already have this Euro badge within our number plates, it's the one with the id, surrounded by twelve stars. If you have this do not make it void by applying a GB badge. It may well be that those that have been fined simply had a GB badge instead of the EU one. The ruling has taken the onus away from the police in deciding who is from the EU and who is not, GB, CH, D, etc.

Edited by megladon

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Megladon, are you saying that anyone with the European plate is automatically OK anywhere in Europe (except countries outside the EU)? If that's the case, then all this thread is simply irrelevant! Now I know why all new plates in France have to have the EU markings on them. ..

I'm sorry to do this to you, but have you any authority to underscore this?

 

 

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What signage one has to apply to the rear of their vehicle/trailer depends entirely on what identification plate the vehicle/trailer has on the rear (under euro law), That is to say, if you are traveling from the UK with a GB badge you will not come under Euro law but under the use and construction rules that apply to the nationals of the country that you are traveling through.

 

If that country requires speed stickers or signage boards then they should be fixed in accordance with the rules. But if your vehicle has an EU identification on the trailer and on the towing vehicle then under the Euro use and construction rules if that vehicle as it stands is legal in it's own registered country then it is legal anywhere in Europe.

 

Many of us already have this Euro badge within our number plates, it's the one with the id, surrounded by twelve stars. If you have this do not make it void by applying a GB badge. It may well be that those that have been fined simply had a GB badge instead of the EU one. The ruling has taken the onus away from the police in deciding who is from the EU and who is not, GB, CH, D, etc.

These types of arguments are all very well but academic when stopped by a foreign police force who is demanding a fine to be paid in cash there and then or the alternative of detention.

 

I can't imagine our own police force being open to debate at the side of the road even with full command of the language let alone an anglophobe gendarme in France or a guarde civil in Spain.

 

There is a big difference between postulating behind a computer screen and being pulled over by foreign law enforcers and dealing with all the grief.

 

It seems simpler, and to be frank more sensible, to buy the stickers plates or whatever and have a stress free holiday. I think any other advice at this stage is not that well founded or pragmatic.

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Many of us already have this Euro badge within our number plates, it's the one with the id, surrounded by twelve stars. If you have this do not make it void by applying a GB badge. It may well be that those that have been fined simply had a GB badge instead of the EU one. The ruling has taken the onus away from the police in deciding who is from the EU and who is not, GB, CH, D, etc.

Just not true

 

From DVLA website

 

Motorists displaying national flags and identifiers will still be required to display the standard GB sticker when travelling in Europe

 

This refers to UK motorists using Scottish, Irish and other permitted emblems instead of the Euro star logo and GB on their number plate.

 

Travel in another country requires the use of a nationality identifier, GB in our case. This can be replaced by a Euro logo incorporating the approved nationality letter(s) on a voluntary basis but the use of either or both is quite acceptable.

 

In fact, for motoring regulations, countries other than those in the EU are included such Norway, Iceland, Leichtenstein and Switzerland (CH) which are not in the EU. The EEA replaced the EFTA and EEC in 1994 and is included in much of the EU regulations.

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Just not true

 

From DVLA website

 

Motorists displaying national flags and identifiers will still be required to display the standard GB sticker when travelling in Europe

 

This refers to UK motorists using Scottish, Irish and other permitted emblems instead of the Euro star logo and GB on their number plate.

 

Travel in another country requires the use of a nationality identifier, GB in our case. This can be replaced by a Euro logo incorporating the approved nationality letter(s) on a voluntary basis but the use of either or both is quite acceptable.

 

In fact, for motoring regulations, countries other than those in the EU are included such Norway, Iceland, Leichtenstein and Switzerland (CH) which are not in the EU. The EEA replaced the EFTA and EEC in 1994 and is included in much of the EU regulations.

Check this out check under GB stickers or this one What is that I have written that is "just not true"

Edited by megladon

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These types of arguments are all very well but academic when stopped by a foreign police force who is demanding a fine to be paid in cash there and then or the alternative of detention.

 

I can't imagine our own police force being open to debate at the side of the road even with full command of the language let alone an anglophobe gendarme in France or a guarde civil in Spain.

 

There is a big difference between postulating behind a computer screen and being pulled over by foreign law enforcers and dealing with all the grief.

 

It seems simpler, and to be frank more sensible, to buy the stickers plates or whatever and have a stress free holiday. I think any other advice at this stage is not that well founded or pragmatic.

 

 

 

Excatly, why do poeple listen to these "Barrack Room " lawyers? just pay the money and get on with your life. I can assure you that "Being Right", cuts little ice with a Gendarme with nothing else better to do, than make your day miserable.

 

British tourists are fair game and a ready source of income, how many ask for a receipt and if thyey do, how many actually get one. Why give them them the oppertunity to have you over for a large wedge of your holiday fund.

 

 

Steve W

Edited by Steve W77

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Check this out check under GB stickers or this one What is that I have written that is "just not true"

I cannot see where these links support your views as stated in post 81?

Edited by Fenester

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I think that what is not understood here is that when one is traveling throughout Europe at this time, There are two sets of rules in place for all of us that are motoring. There are those rules that are national based and those that are EU.

 

It is the plan of the MEPs of Europe that eventually there will be no national rules and laws but only those of the EU. We are living through this transition time, But all member states that sign up to mutual agreements on transport in Europe are expected to keep to them. Use and construction rules are one of them that has been stamped and signed by all member states and it is a law that overrides national laws on transport.

 

My post was nothing about being a "barrack room lawyer" but simply stating that when in Europe use only the EU GB sticker on both car and van. I have already posted that for peace of mind one should conform to the national rules of the country that one is in.

 

I can only post of my own experience of traveling through Europe under EU ruling and not national rules, And have not had a problem apart from a few questions by the Spanish border police near to Girona. We have traveled the length and breadth of Spain with our motorcycle and trailer under EU law while under Spanish law it was illegal to tow a trailer behind a motorcycle, pic here both motorcycle and trailer have EU GB identity plates.

 

I am certainly not saying that I know it all, But I do know that we all live and work in Europe and pay it's taxes, So the attitude that says "ol well do as they say" even when one knows it is wrong does not go down well with me. We all have an MEP, So do as I did, Write to them and check what your rights are as a traveler in Europe.

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I think that what is not understood here is that when one is traveling throughout Europe at this time, There are two sets of rules in place for all of us that are motoring. There are those rules that are national based and those that are EU.

 

It is the plan of the MEPs of Europe that eventually there will be no national rules and laws but only those of the EU. We are living through this transition time, But all member states that sign up to mutual agreements on transport in Europe are expected to keep to them. Use and construction rules are one of them that has been stamped and signed by all member states and it is a law that overrides national laws on transport.

 

My post was nothing about being a "barrack room lawyer" but simply stating that when in Europe use only the EU GB sticker on both car and van. I have already posted that for peace of mind one should conform to the national rules of the country that one is in.

 

I can only post of my own experience of traveling through Europe under EU ruling and not national rules, And have not had a problem apart from a few questions by the Spanish border police near to Girona. We have traveled the length and breadth of Spain with our motorcycle and trailer under EU law while under Spanish law it was illegal to tow a trailer behind a motorcycle, pic here both motorcycle and trailer have EU GB identity plates.

 

I am certainly not saying that I know it all, But I do know that we all live and work in Europe and pay it's taxes, So the attitude that says "ol well do as they say" even when one knows it is wrong does not go down well with me. We all have an MEP, So do as I did, Write to them and check what your rights are as a traveler in Europe.

 

 

 

If it was a matter of any significance, I would be behind you all the way, but not just to save £10 and "spoilling" the look of the Caravan.

They are not the worst cases that intrude on the personal freedom that we all should enjoy. Perhaps you will write to your MP about the abuse of the stop and search laws that has become a daily event in our own capital. or maybe that doesn't matter as it probably has never happened to you and probably never will. Just a question of priorities, mine are obviously different to yours.

 

 

Steve W

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if it is true that we have to conform by putting 60 80 90 vehiclo longo stickers signs for euro travel with our caravans

why do the uk irish international hauliers not comply if any one is going to get grief from the gendarmes gaurda civil etc it

will be these guys

next time your on a motorway take a look and see how many brittish based trucks conform

next for spain we will have to have fitted on the towing vehicle a illuminated square triangle to say we are towing

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If it was a matter of any significance, I would be behind you all the way, but not just to save £10 and "spoilling" the look of the Caravan.

They are not the worst cases that intrude on the personal freedom that we all should enjoy. Perhaps you will write to your MP about the abuse of the stop and search laws that has become a daily event in our own capital. or maybe that doesn't matter as it probably has never happened to you and probably never will. Just a question of priorities, mine are obviously different to yours.

 

 

Steve W

Hi Steve, I have views on many subjects,and certainly many take priority over others. Please do not assume that your priorities are any different than mine or anyone else's.

 

We are on a caravan forum and as such the relevancies of that are what I will share my views on. If you wish to discuss the police actions within our capital and all that goes with it I most certainly have views on that but I feel that this is not the place for it.

 

As far as writing to my MP over such matters both myself and my wife have done more, We have been to Parliament to personally lobby our MP over matters that we feel strongly about. Have you?.

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Hi Steve, I have views on many subjects,and certainly many take priority over others. Please do not assume that your priorities are any different than mine or anyone else's.

 

We are on a caravan forum and as such the relevancies of that are what I will share my views on. If you wish to discuss the police actions within our capital and all that goes with it I most certainly have views on that but I feel that this is not the place for it.

 

As far as writing to my MP over such matters both myself and my wife have done more, We have been to Parliament to personally lobby our MP over matters that we feel strongly about. Have you?.

 

 

 

As my MP is none other than Margeret Moran, that well publicised nest featherer, there seems little point in dicussing anything with her, unless of course it is how to squeeze even more fiddles out of the tax payer.

 

 

Steve W

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As my MP is none other than Margeret Moran, that well publicised nest featherer, there seems little point in dicussing anything with her, unless of course it is how to squeeze even more fiddles out of the tax payer.

 

 

Steve W

Hi Steve, Point taken and understood.

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What is that I have written that is "just not true"

 

Many of us already have this Euro badge within our number plates, . .......... If you have this do not make it void by applying a GB badge. ??????

 

You can have either or both. ... on the back :) . .......none are required on the front ;)

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Many of us already have this Euro badge within our number plates, . .......... If you have this do not make it void by applying a GB badge. ??????

 

You can have either or both. ... on the back :) . .......none are required on the front ;)

The plural was pertaining to both car and trailer. Of course one can have either or both, But if the emphasis is on the EU sticker and not being confused with the basic GB sticker this is easier to show that one is traveling within EU rules. I am sorry that this seems to be confusing to some but the whole point of the various lobbying groups across the EU to get some kind of harmonization when crossing different border points in Europe is all a waste of time if the French & Spanish make rules for their Nationals and the rest of us accept that they are also for us. The rules were passed and put into operation, So that each time we cross a border, If our vehicle is legal in it's own registered member country it does not have to stop, park up and place new stickers on the back. But as always please yourself.

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I see- but at the moment, it's as clear as mud! F'r instance, left and right hand drive cars and their headlights; left hand drive lorries in Britain, etc. Personally, I think that I am going to keep to the local rules in so far as they are used.

 

Define that! OK- nobody checks LHD headlights in Britain, and rarely RHD in France.

 

Speed stickers cost pennies, so I'm going to use one, when relevant. And keep more or less to the limit. (130 kph in a 1967 Citroen DS- that's without the caravan. ....)

 

Trailer boards- well, I'm less than 12m, and I don't speak much Spanish anyway.

 

Yellow vests in the car- I know two people (French) who were stopped, and lack of vests led to an amende. In France, I have vests!

 

You get the picture, i'm sure. ....this thread is hugely relevant, but each to their own!!

Edited by drummond

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The plural was pertaining to both car and trailer. Of course one can have either or both, But if the emphasis is on the EU sticker and not being confused with the basic GB sticker this is easier to show that one is traveling within EU rules. I am sorry that this seems to be confusing to some but the whole point of the various lobbying groups across the EU to get some kind of harmonization when crossing different border points in Europe is all a waste of time if the French & Spanish make rules for their Nationals and the rest of us accept that they are also for us. The rules were passed and put into operation, So that each time we cross a border, If our vehicle is legal in it's own registered member country it does not have to stop, park up and place new stickers on the back. But as always please yourself.

 

I am not sure about what groups you refer to but do agree that its a nonsense that countries are allowed to introduce new regulations without regard for their affect on neighbouring countries. Not sure how successful it will be but I have sent an e-mail to the EU Commissioner for Transport just to see what sort of reaction I get. Perhaps we should all bombard our MP's/MEP's with the same question (regardless of their current status) If every member of this group who has replied to this thread sends a letter to their MP it would at least reach quite a few and might encourage them to take it a little more seriously? Just at the back of my mind I do wonder if the Caravan Club should be proactive on this subject on behalf of its members.

 

David

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I am not sure about what groups you refer to but do agree that its a nonsense that countries are allowed to introduce new regulations without regard for their affect on neighbouring countries. Not sure how successful it will be but I have sent an e-mail to the EU Commissioner for Transport just to see what sort of reaction I get. Perhaps we should all bombard our MP's/MEP's with the same question (regardless of their current status) If every member of this group who has replied to this thread sends a letter to their MP it would at least reach quite a few and might encourage them to take it a little more seriously? Just at the back of my mind I do wonder if the Caravan Club should be proactive on this subject on behalf of its members.

 

David

Hi David, Yes on the advice that we should all be in contact with our various reps, MPs, MEPs,in Europe, I have already asked for exact clarification on the points within these post's.

 

The groups that I refer to that have over the years put tremendous pressure on the Euro Bureaucrats are the hundreds of motorcycle clubs across Europe who have seen a possible end to their way of life if Europe were to have everything it's own way.

 

Since the nineteen eighties The BMF & MAG (British motorcycle federation, Motorcycle action group) have constantly kept their eye on all new transport legislation and how it may affect them, What with the type approval laws and the many different vehicles that are within their clubs, Solo machines, combinations, trikes etc many of which are home built.

 

In the UK the clubs employ their own lobbyist MP who keeps the clubs up to date and speaks on their behalf on all new legislation that may be in the pipeline as do the European clubs.

 

It was under the pressure of my own club that in the early eighties legislation was passed in Parliament to allow trailers to be towed behind a motorcycle in the UK as this was already allowed in France since the nineteen thirties.

 

While it has been the rule in Europe for a good many years that under the "use and construction" ruling a vehicle legal and roadworthy and complying to rules in it's registered member country can cross borders with no problems it has not been hassle free. Spain and Denmark were less than cooperative in allowing trailers behind motorcycles in their countries from member states where it was not against the law to tow, But under pressure from Europe they had to submit to the law.

 

It's a great shame that there is no such camaraderie amongst the motorist or caravaner's across Europe as there is with the motorcycle clubs because the rules are there to help but they need to be bought to the forefront of our hobby.

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For information if you go here you can put in make and model of car and caravan.

It will then provide all types of calculation figures, outfit balance, hill start inclines etc including Gross Train weight (the last figure)

It may save you from running out of fingers :rolleyes:

Edited by Rostrevor

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70 miles round the m25 this morning plenty of euro trucks the only one with speed limit

signs was french

a french tractor unit came on set to pick up a trailer speed signs on the rear of cab

until i hear of a uk caravan being fined in france for not displaying

then i will then comply

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