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Toyota Rav V Bailey Pageant S.7 Provence


john1944
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Hello everyone. I have a new Toyota Rav 4 series 3 2. 2 diesel, and a new Bailey Pageant 7 Provence. The Bailey MRO is 1275kg. , and the MTPLM 1490 kg. I understand that the Rav has a maximum nose weight restriction of 80kg, although the stamping on the tow bar states S 90, which I imagine relates to the maximum weight. Using a bathroom scales (two in fact) I have established that my actual nose weight is 130 kg. I have removed from the rear end of the caravan the portable fifth bunk, and also a rather heavy picnic table that was located just aft of the axle. I also have fitted a Truma SE motor mover, and two full 6 kg. butane gas bottles in the front locker, together with a few tools, hoses and other light goods. Removing one full gas bottle and the tools, and placing inside at the rear of the van, and also lying the heavy table in this area reduces my nose weight to 90kg. , in which state the van is still resting comfortably on the jocket wheel.

 

I am however, aware of the problems that could occur with two much weight in the rear, although I feel the nose weight is of far greater importance. I have incidentally driven the unit 200 miles in this heavy front mode, including dual carriageway motoring at 60 m. p. h. The drive was perfect in every respect.

 

Is the Rav a suitable car for towing this van, the Bailey dealer made it quite clear it was, and in the hand over made no reference to any doubts about nose weight problems. I have no doubt that I can reduce the nose weight even further, but is this action likely to cause any problems to safety issues. Many thanks, John

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Hi John

 

If you do a search you will find many threads relating to noseweight. 75kg or 80 kg is a very normal max noseweight for most cars other than "big" 4 wheel drive and I would think your Rav is a perfect towcar for your caravan. Removing gas bottles is one way of lightening the load but make sure if you carry them in the car that they are upright and secured in place. I can't recall if you mentioned spare wheel but that is another very heavy item best moved out of the gas locker and cariied in a carrier under the van or in the car. Other than that it is just a matter of moving things around in the van until you get to the optimum figure. An awning can often be a useful balancing tool. Everone has their own views on this issue but personally I have not had any stability problems and with all of my vans there has been a balancing act.

 

Ken

Lunar Quasar 525 & Vauxhall Zafira 1. 9d (150)

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John,

There are no reasons that the RAV-4 should not be a suitable vehicle.

 

From what I understand that you are saying, you have removed a considerable weight from the rear, which will increase your nose weight. There is no reason why you should not replace this weight with other items to reduce your noseweight. Ideally you should aim for as high as possible without exceeding the RAV limit. Maybe you should check to see whether this is actually 80 or 90kg.

I dont understand your statement "........the heavy table in this area reduces my nose weight to 90kg. , in which state the van is still resting comfortably on the jocket wheel. ....". Did this mean you were seeing 90kg on the scales, with the jockey wheel still carrying some weight, so the true noseweight must be something higher?

 

Bailey caravans do tend to have a high noseweight ex works and its a matter of arranging storage within the caravan to suit. Obviously keep any heavy items low down and as close to the axle as practically possible. Putting all your contents forward of the axle only increases the noseweight so you do need to have an equal amount in the rear as well to keep it balanced. As you have taken some weight out I do not see a problem putting the equivalent back plus a little more if necessary.

 

Brian

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Hi John

 

If you do a search you will find many threads relating to noseweight. 75kg or 80 kg is a very normal max noseweight for most cars other than "big" 4 wheel drive and I would think your Rav is a perfect towcar for your caravan. Removing gas bottles is one way of lightening the load but make sure if you carry them in the car that they are upright and secured in place. I can't recall if you mentioned spare wheel but that is another very heavy item best moved out of the gas locker and cariied in a carrier under the van or in the car. Other than that it is just a matter of moving things around in the van until you get to the optimum figure. An awning can often be a useful balancing tool. Everone has their own views on this issue but personally I have not had any stability problems and with all of my vans there has been a balancing act.

 

Ken

 

 

Thank you Ken. To get the figure of 90 kg. on nose weight, the spare gas bottle has been put at the back of the van, not the car, along with a few other hefty articles as noted in my previous post. The spare wheel lies aft of the axle, left side, and the roomy front locker has nothing other than the connected gas bottle in it. What do you make of Toyota stating that the nose weight should be 80kg. max, but the tow bar has S 90 on it ?? Thanks for your help John

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John,

It just occurred to me - are you weighing with your jockey wheel on the scales?

If so, you will be reading higher than the true weight on the hitch.

All you need is a suitable length of wood under the hitch directly onto the scales. The caravan should be level when weighing

Brian

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John,

It just occurred to me - are you weighing with your jockey wheel on the scales?

If so, you will be reading higher than the true weight on the hitch.

All you need is a suitable length of wood under the hitch directly onto the scales. The caravan should be level when weighing

Brian

 

Brian I am sorry for my bad explanations. The heavy picnic table was located in a cupboard about 1 foot behind the axle. My initial high nose reading was taken with this removed altogether from the van, as was the fifth bunk bed. Both these items have been moved to the back of the caravan, along with the tools and a full gas bottle. With the corner stays slightly elevated, I can still stand behind the axle in the van without the front end lifting, and i weigh around 13 kg. I guess I will easily be able to adjust the loading when we next move off, even without carrying the extra gas in the van, but basically I feel that I am going to have to load around 25 to 30 kg. of bulk nearer the back of the caravan, rtaher than over the axle. What do you think. At the end of the day does not commonsence prevail. If I have a nose weight of 80kg. and the whole unit is horizontal to the ground when hitched up, then surely loading is correct.

 

I value every ones comments, thank you. John

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At the end of the day does not commonsence prevail. If I have a nose weight of 80kg. and the whole unit is horizontal to the ground when hitched up, then surely loading is correct.

Agreed with you there. If you dont need the 5th bunk bed, leave it out all together and you can put something else of similar weight there. Would recommend you keep the gas bottles in their designated spot.

I have noticed that Ford and VW have recently increased the noseweight on the Mondeo and Passat to 90kg. Wonder if Toyota have changed also.

Brian

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Agreed with you there. If you dont need the 5th bunk bed, leave it out all together and you can put something else of similar weight there. Would recommend you keep the gas bottles in their designated spot.

I have noticed that Ford and VW have recently increased the noseweight on the Mondeo and Passat to 90kg. Wonder if Toyota have changed also.

Brian

 

 

Brian one of my posts seems to have got lost; I am in fact weighing with the scales under the Jockey Wheel. I was led to believe this was the correct procedure. It seems logical to me that nose weight should be at the hitch and ball, so if you can confrim that I should be measuring at that point then I will find a suitable piece of equipment to put under the hitch and down on to the scales.

 

I really value your help Brian, and much appreciate it. All the best,

 

John

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Hi John, My S7 Provence has a heavy nose weight I used my nose weight gauge and estimated the weight at 115kg, the gauge was just about off the scale and hard to read. So im off tomorrow to use the bathroom scale method will let you know what the reading is. the following was on board when I weighed van.

 

I have left the rear bunk in place (just removed the ladder, wood safety rails and the the mattress), a small basket of toiletries and toilet rolls in bottom of bathroom cabinet and mini vacuum cleaner, cutlery in cupboard opposite and pots/pans under cooker all on centre line.

Above in the overhead locker melamine dining set two proper tea mugs, wine, beer and Hi ball glasses.

 

Front locker, full 10kg and 1/4 full 5kg BP gaslite, footpump, two 1. 5l bottle of toilet fluids, 2 packs awning pegs, waste hose, 2 x 7m clean mains water hoses, Kojack jack, leveling block and wedge and wheel/steady/motormover braces, plus motor mover in front of axle.

 

Everthing else travels in the car.

 

First outing was approx. 20 mile van tow straight but, steering felt light, on some uneven stretch of road felt van pitching, on return I removed Kojack Jack from front locker, had a much better ride back to storage compound.

 

My 2nd trip was along M62 then off at Bradford and upto Wharfedale CC Site on 27th March a very windy day, outfit travelled well, I placed Kojack on floor in van with wine and groceries, just opposite cupboards approx. foot behind axle.

 

Be careful of placing any heavy weight at rear of van as this can cause a lateral pendulum movement even with ATC fitted and in most forums it recommends a slight nose down as being the best towing configuration.

 

Hope this is of some help, my noseweight target is 90/100kg.

 

Brianinhull :mellow::blink:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blue '07 X Trail Aventura 2. 2dci, S7 Pageant Provence + Truma MK2 Original Mover, Blue Kampa Rally 390 Awning.

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Hi John,please excuse me if I repeat others recomendations,1ST measure the height of your car tow ball from the ground,should be between 380 to 400mm, cut a lenght of broom stick the correct lenght MINUS the height of the bathroom scales,so that total height is = to the height of the tow ball. use some thing to protect & spread the load on the scales I used a square of hardboard nailed to the end of the broom stick,with the van on level ground place the broomstick IN the tow socket & on the scales , raise the front steadys, raise the jocky wheel slowly to get the nose weight reading. you can simply put down the jockey in order to rearrange stuff in the van to achieve the req n/weight.

if you buy a noseweight gauge,use the guage instead of the broomstick ON the scales, having made sure that the height is correct WHEN the scales are showing the correct weight, this will confirm that the guage is correctly calibrated, if it is wrong mark the guage(mine is 10kg out) & the difference in the Nose weight taken under the jocky wheel & that taken at the hitch is 10 kg on my van

 

Hope this may help

Edited by TD 42
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Hi John,please excuse me if I repeat others recomendations,1ST measure the height of your car tow ball from the ground,should be between 380 to 400mm, cut a lenght of broom stick the correct lenght MINUS the height of the bathroom scales,so that total height is = to the height of the tow ball. use some thing to protect & spread the load on the scales I used a square of hardboard nailed to the end of the broom stick,with the van on level ground place the broomstick IN the tow socket & on the scales , raise the front steadys, raise the jocky wheel slowly to get the nose weight reading. you can simply put down the jockey in order to rearrange stuff in the van to achieve the req n/weight.

if you buy a noseweight gauge,use the guage instead of the broomstick ON the scales, having made sure that the height is correct WHEN the scales are showing the correct weight, this will confirm that the guage is correctly calibrated, if it is wrong mark the guage(mine is 10kg out) & the difference in the Nose weight taken under the jocky wheel & that taken at the hitch is 10 kg on my van

 

Hope this may help

 

 

 

Thank you TD 42, am going to work on that today and will advise the results !! Brianinhull thankyou also; but are you making the same mistake as me by measuring the nose weight underneath the Jockey wheel. Apparently the most accurate figures are obtained by measuring underneat the tow ball hitch as described in the previous post by TD 42. Your figures and weight distribution pattern seemed similar to my results, but will check again using the correct method. I really want to use the Provence with the only external storage area (front locker) fully utilised; I am very reluctant running around with gas bottles at the back end !!! rEGARDS TO YOU ALL jOHN

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Brian one of my posts seems to have got lost; I am in fact weighing with the scales under the Jockey Wheel. I was led to believe this was the correct procedure. It seems logical to me that nose weight should be at the hitch and ball, so if you can confrim that I should be measuring at that point then I will find a suitable piece of equipment to put under the hitch and down on to the scales.

John

Yes, by definition it should be the weight as measured at the hitch. The jockey wheel will weigh higher as it is nearer the axle. You can calculate the weight at the hitch from the jockey wheel weight by taking moments around the axle i. e.

 

weight at hitch = weight at jockey wheel x distance from axle to jockey wheel divided by distance from axle to hitch

 

Might make around 5% difference in the right direction for you. Every little helps

 

Aternatively a piece of wood under the hitch onto the scales with a piece of wood on the scales to spread the weight.

Brian

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Yes, by definition it should be the weight as measured at the hitch. The jockey wheel will weigh higher as it is nearer the axle. You can calculate the weight at the hitch from the jockey wheel weight by taking moments around the axle i. e.

 

weight at hitch = weight at jockey wheel x distance from axle to jockey wheel divided by distance from axle to hitch

 

Might make around 5% difference in the right direction for you. Every little helps

 

Aternatively a piece of wood under the hitch onto the scales with a piece of wood on the scales to spread the weight.

Brian

 

 

Used the correct procedure this morning to measure nose weight, and immediately got the figure down from 130 kg to 105. Further loading adjustments got it down to 80 kg. without too much excessive rear end loading, and still able to carry two fully 6kg. gas bottles in the front locker.

 

Only goes to show how valuable these forums are. Thank you every one.

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Hi John and all the rest for your help.

Went with scales and nose weight gauge today and had another shock 118kg noseweight, I believe the cause is the nose weight gauge is not accurate. :o

My first attempt a few weeks ago I tried nose gauge alongside car towball same height when I placed it under hitch it went off the scale by 30mm, which I estimated to be approx extra 25kg on the gauge limit of 90kg hence the 115kg. The caravan nose went down by 150/175mm as the gauge compressed, this would be below normal running height. :huh:

Tried the same today with nose gauge stood on scales, 118kg registered on scales, naturally gauge compressed the same distance, so van nose would be about 150mm below running height, so tomorrow I will try using fixed length piece of timber.

Moved weights about and placed porch awning 30kg, kojack 12kg inline with rear door and got nose weight down to 102kg, as you now this position is only about metre behind axle and as two thirds of van is forward of axle the lateral movement will be insignificant. Will continue experiments tomorrow. :blink:

 

Brianinhull.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blue '07 X Trail Aventura 2. 2dci, S7 Pageant Provence + Truma MK2 Original Mover, Blue Kampa Rally 390 Awning.

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