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fintious maximus
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Hi all, just been away for the first weekend in our second season of caravanning and wondered if someone can help me with how the car should feel when tugging the shed. ...

 

I have a Swift corvette and drive a Citroen Picasso 1. 8 petrol (towing limit 1300kg) and towing through towns and villages is absolutely fine but when faced with a motorway incline I really have to work the gears to maintain 50 mph. I worry that the car is being overworked and will break on me. Is it usual/acceptable for the car to labour and is it likely to harm it?

 

I am tempted to exchange it for a big car like an Isuzu Trooper but really like the Pic and it would be a reluctant sell.

Edited by fintious maximus
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Hi all, just been away for the first weekend in our second season of caravanning and wondered if someone can help me with how the car should feel when tugging the shed. ...

 

I have a Swift corvette and drive a Citroen Picasso 1. 8 petrol (towing limit 1300kg) and towing through towns and villages is absolutely fine but when faced with a motorway incline I really have to work the gears to maintain 50 mph. I worry that the car is being overworked and will break on me. Is it usual/acceptable for the car to labour and is it likely to harm it?

 

I am tempted to exchange it for a big car like an Isuzu Trooper but really like the Pic and it would be a reluctant sell.

 

Hi

 

I not sure what the weights of your caravan and car are, but you need to know what weight the caravan is when it is loaded and you

don't say how many are in the car, it all adds up.

 

I would be the first to say yes go get a big Trooper but you poss don't need to go to that extreem but one thing that would help is

if you had a deisel, they are a better tool for towing, a lot more low end power, so at 50/60 mph is the optimim power.

 

Radiotwo

Steve - Land Cruiser Amazon Auto + Pageant Series 5 Champagne

The match between car and caravan is perfect in accordance with a mix of European standards. However, according to the British Towing Code the percentage (loaded caravan / kerbweight tow car) is 49%.

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Hi

 

I not sure what the weights of your caravan and car are, but you need to know what weight the caravan is when it is loaded and you

don't say how many are in the car, it all adds up.

 

I would be the first to say yes go get a big Trooper but you poss don't need to go to that extreem but one thing that would help is

if you had a deisel, they are a better tool for towing, a lot more low end power, so at 50/60 mph is the optimim power.

 

Radiotwo

 

Thanks for your reply - the car can tow upto 1300kg and the caravans ex works weight is 940 so should be within the 85% guide - it just feels as though it struggles but it may just be that my inexperience makes the car feel laboured when in fact this could be normal - I don't know. ...

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When the car was struggling, did you have a headwind? This can make a huge difference. We towed back from the West country last year with no problems, even getting into sixth gear with the caravan in tow. As soon as we hit the Second Severn crossing, we hit a headwind and went down to third gear and 40 mph. After crossing the bridge, the wind died down and the car behaved normally again.

If you do decide to change your towcar, go to the towcar section of this forum and check with other owners what your chosen towcar is like. We had a Pajero for a few years which was a brilliant towcar, but the fuel consumption was appalling.

 

Hope this helps, Mikey :D:D

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Thanks for your reply - the car can tow upto 1300kg and the caravans ex works weight is 940 so should be within the 85% guide - it just feels as though it struggles but it may just be that my inexperience makes the car feel laboured when in fact this could be normal - I don't know. ...

 

Hi again,

 

Just a point, you say the ex-works is 940, but by the time you have put things in it,like gas, battery etc, I bet you are not far off the max, and you did not

say which model Citroen you had !

 

Radiotwo

Steve - Land Cruiser Amazon Auto + Pageant Series 5 Champagne

The match between car and caravan is perfect in accordance with a mix of European standards. However, according to the British Towing Code the percentage (loaded caravan / kerbweight tow car) is 49%.

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Thanks for your reply - the car can tow upto 1300kg and the caravans ex works weight is 940 so should be within the 85% guide - it just feels as though it struggles but it may just be that my inexperience makes the car feel laboured when in fact this could be normal - I don't know. ...

 

You do need to change down a lot more when towing and makep upshifts later to allow the revs to build up

You should be considering the caravan loaded weight in the 85% formula not the ex works weight

BMW X3 X Drive and Swift Challenger 580SE

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. ......but one thing that would help is

if you had a deisel, they are a better tool for towing, a lot more low end power, . .....

 

Radiotwo

 

:huh: You mean a lot more of ITS power is available at lower rev's! My petrol car has a lot more 'power' than a lot of the diseasal cars being used here! I just don't get the economy - with or without a 'van. :D

Lunar Delta 520/2 towed by Omega 3. 0 Elite

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You could of course go for the Trooper and it would be no effort for it to tow you caravan. However, unless you are thinking of a bigger van in the future it would be just a little OTT and of course you will have the extra costs of owning a big 4X4. It really does depend on how many miles to tow a year compared to solo motoring. How about swapping you current car for the diesel version, I think you would find a massive difference in performance.

 

David

David - Milton Keynes

Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome for holidays and a Kia Venga for home.

 

Caravan Travels

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We had a Pajero for a few years which was a brilliant towcar, but the fuel consumption was appalling.

 

Hope this helps, Mikey :D:D

 

As you can see by my siggy I also have a Pajero brilliant tow car but a little thirsty, having said that no worse than a Audio 2ltr petrol I once had, Pajero about 20 mpg towing . ..

Neil. .

 

Ford Mondeo Titanium x Auto Estate / Bailey Pagent burgundy series 7

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Hi, the car is a Citroen picasso!!

 

There was no head wind, just a steady incline of about a mile long and I had to drop to third.

 

One reason for considering a Trooper is that when not towing I need a fairly big vehicle for work as i'm a joiner and as I have 2 kids I had to swap my van for a family vehicle. When the seats are folded in the Pic it is as big as my van was. Regarding towing mileage we will be doing a number of trips to Cornwall over the next few years to see the in-laws and will undoubtedly have to get a bigger caravan as the kids get bigger.

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You need to be a little bit technical - car engines are at their most efficient at the revs where maximum torque occurs - most cars have enough torque, even petrol engines, to cruise at much lower revs and give a more relaxing tow but once you get to the hilly bits, or windy bits you need to be in the right gear to ensure that your engine is at "max torque" revs - now in older petrol engines this was 2200-2500 rpm but for modern (emission-strangled) engines this is often up in the 4000-5000 rpm range, and even then it's not as much as the older engines.

 

I don't know what revs the max torque occurs in your 1. 8 petrol Picasso - but if you find out, and get in whichever gear is needed (quite possibly 3rd) you'll get a better tow on the hilly/windy stuff.

 

Because diesels, particularly turbos, develop more torque than petrols and at much lower revs many drivers feel these are better - but you'll get a much bigger smile on your face with a good petrol, at least I do!

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. .....

Because diesels, particularly turbos, develop more torque than equivalent sized petrols and at much lower revs many drivers feel these are better -

but you'll get a much bigger smile on your face with a good petrol, at least I do!

 

;););) My turbo diseasl Astra shed is pathetic (solo) compared to my petrol tow car! :D

Lunar Delta 520/2 towed by Omega 3. 0 Elite

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B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Andy B @ Mar 22 2009, 09:54 AM) 240733[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->;););) My turbo diseasl Astra shed is pathetic (solo) compared to my petrol tow car! :D

Everything is pathetic if you don't compare like with like - the modern 1. 9 CDTi Astra are quite spritely - the ancient 1. 7TD wasn't!

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B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Andy B @ Mar 22 2009, 09:54 AM) 240733[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->;););) My turbo diseasl Astra shed is pathetic (solo) compared to my petrol tow car! :D

Everything is pathetic if you don't compare like with like - the modern 1. 9 CDTi Astra are quite spritely - the ancient 1. 7DT wasn't!

 

 

Very true, my son has an Audi TT 2. 0 TD 0-60 in 7. 2 seconds and is stunning to drive, however, i wouldn't want to tow a van with it!

Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
Mine : Mercedes GLC 250d AMG, Lunar Clubman SB, Rockwood 5th Wheel Trailer, La Manga Spain.

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Everything is pathetic if you don't compare like with like - the modern 1. 9 CDTi Astra are quite spritely - the ancient 1. 7DT wasn't!

 

Exactly my point! :D An early answer suggested that diseasals are more powerful . ... only if, as you say, compare like with like. My Astra isn't even as modern as a 1. 7DT . ..... it's a low blow TD ;)

Lunar Delta 520/2 towed by Omega 3. 0 Elite

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B)-->

QUOTE(Andy B @ Mar 22 2009, 11:25 AM) 240768[/snapback]
Exactly my point! :D An early answer suggested that diseasals are more powerful . ... only if, as you say, compare like with like. My Astra isn't even as modern as a 1. 7DT . ..... it's a low blow TD ;)

As fellow petrol-heads we mustn't fall out.

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In response to the OP, whislt i have no experiance of the Picasso, i would have to say that if you are really struggling to maintain 50mph on an incline with no headwind or other adverse conditions, then i would not feel happy with that.

 

I can only relate to my own experiances with my outfit, i have a large and relativly heavy van, however, i very rarely have to change down to say 4th, most of the time it will cruise in 6th, on an incline i will sometimes have to come down to 5th, and that is to maintain 60mph not 50mph.

 

These are just my experiances and thoughts, if i were you i would be looking for a more suitable tow car.

 

 

Phil.

Edited by phil1041

Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
Mine : Mercedes GLC 250d AMG, Lunar Clubman SB, Rockwood 5th Wheel Trailer, La Manga Spain.

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If you do go for a 4x4 its woth looking at daewoo musso td you can pick these up for next to nothing and not that bad on fuel for a big 4x4 and ours tows realy well but not the fast solo.

LUNAR LEXON DS ROYAL HERCULES MOVER, 2017 Seat Alhambra 184 se lux & SSANGYONG REXTON 2. 9 RUNNING ON VEG OIL. 1982 HONDA CX500EC. YAMAHA XJ600S. 2006 FORD KA

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According to this specification

 

http://www. theaa. com/staticdocs/pdf/carrep. ..1. 8SX_OCT01. PDF

 

3rd gear is 12. 8 mph/1000rpm so will give 51. 2 mph at 4000rpm which is where maximum torque occurs on this engine.

 

Don't be afraid to "block change" from 5th straight down to 3rd if you want to make better progress - but in fact, looking at the specification you'll probably be better not using 5th at all when towing as 60mph will only be 2750 rpm which is way below the optimum.

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According to this specification

 

http://www. theaa. com/staticdocs/pdf/carrep. ..1. 8SX_OCT01. PDF

 

3rd gear is 12. 8 mph/1000rpm so will give 51. 2 mph at 4000rpm which is where maximum torque occurs on this engine.

 

Don't be afraid to "block change" from 5th straight down to 3rd if you want to make better progress - but in fact, looking at the specification you'll probably be better not using 5th at all when towing as 60mph will only be 2750 rpm which is way below the optimum.

 

Blimey, that is technical but probably answers the question. If I expect to be shunting up hill in 3rd and it's not likely to be damaging the car then thats good. Thanks

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Very true, my son has an Audi TT 2. 0 TD 0-60 in 7. 2 seconds and is stunning to drive, however, i wouldn't want to tow a van with it!

 

Maybe not but you could buy a nice Skoda Octavia vRS which has the same engine and tows like a dream (albeit maybe not with a Louisiana!), we have towed with our new one for the first time this weekend and it was just about perfect.

 

As for the OP . .. if you like the Picasso go for an HDi. We had a HDi in a Peugeot 306 DTurbo a while back, was a cracking engine to tow with.

2010 Volvo XC70 D5 SE Lux (2012 V60 D5 All Wheel Drive R Design after March 12!)

2012 Swift Conqueror 480, with Omnivent, Mini Heki in Loo, Mudflaps and ALKO Mammut Mover

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Neil, we had the same Pajero as you 2. 8 tdi long wheel base. We were getting about 18mpg towing and no better than 25mpg solo.

 

Mikey :blink:

 

I also have a Pajero 2. 8 tdi long wheel base. 18 - 20 mpg towing with an 1800 kg twin axle caravan and anywhere between 25 and 29 mpg solo if on a long run however the Pajero is only used for towing and use at destination, not normal everyday driving.

 

Gerry

2005 Kia Sorento 2. 5 Auto towing 2011 Conqueror 645

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Blimey, that is technical but probably answers the question. If I expect to be shunting up hill in 3rd and it's not likely to be damaging the car then thats good. Thanks

 

Hi,

I've owned 3 diesel Picassos and with the 2 90bhp versions I had to change down occasionaly so I would have thought yours would be the same,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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