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Hows This For Logic


Steven
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We have just had a weekend at Chatsworth CC site, on getting up yesterday morning SHMBO decided we would like to stay on until 5. 00pm, so I was duly dispatched to reception to sort out with the wardens.

 

Note to all: I am always willing to pay for an extra night for the opportunity to stay on a pitch after 12:00 however

 

Conversation goes something like this:-

 

(Me) Hello, is it possible for us to stay on until 5. 00pm today.

 

(Warden) No ! the 12 o'clock rule is one set by head office due to the restricted access to the site, we have 75 leaving today and 65 coming on, can you imagine the chaos if they all met in the lane together?

 

(Me) I can't see everyone arriving and departing at the same time, but no worries.

 

(Warden) We have to be fair, if I allowed you to stay on then I would have to let everyone else do the same.

 

(Me) Not a problem, I can see it could cause you a headache, is it ok if I pay for another night?

 

(Warden) Yes thats Ok.

 

(Me) What's to stop me from leaving at any time I want today?

 

(Warden) Nothing at all, I will only charge you a pitch fee and one person as you are not stopping over night.

 

(Me) Thanks thats very good of you. (Money changes hands, receipt is given).

 

(Me) So what is the difference, I will still be leaving at 5. 00pm.

 

(Warden) Yes, and you will have to be careful driving up the lane as oncoming vehicles have priority!

 

(Me) So there is no difference other than I have paid £10. 20 for the privilege?

 

(Warden) Yes (shrug of shoulders)

 

 

IS IT ME?

 

 

 

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No, it’s definitely not you. It is however the warped sense of logic we come to expect from the CC.

 

I think I might have tried to be a bit more persuasive though, rather than just handing over £10. 20p.

 

Surely it’s better to let some people leave later, if they request and there are spaces.

Swift Challenger 490

Sorento + Fabia to help the Sorento up hills!

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The logic is simple because you have paid for another night you have the priviledge to leave what ever time you choose.

But that does not over ride the 12 o'clock rule set by head office due to the restricted access to the site.

 

GPS

 

 

 

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Why does everyone keep knocking the CC. These kinds of problems can happen at any site, it is not exclusive to CC. You will always find some wardens who are a bit more officious but it is very difficult for them on very busy sites. If you had to deal with all the arrivals and leavers on a busy site and control those who want to stay for a few more hours you might understand. If they agreed to all requests on a busy day they could have serious problems.

 

I have always found the wardens to be helpful when they have the time. I NEVER assume that I will be able to stay beyond the 12:00 deadline.

 

Roger

GREYHOUNDS MAKE GREAT PETS

 

Swift Challenger and Kia Sorento XS Auto

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But that does not over ride the 12 o'clock rule set by head office due to the restricted access to the site.

 

GPS

 

You was the one who wanted to pay for another night so that you don't have to abide by the 12 o'clock rule.

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What make this illogical is by paying for another night any logic they did have has been bypassed.

 

If the rule is in place for access reasons, then people should not be allowed to leave after 12:00. Isn’t this a bit like paying for the night before, so you can arrive before 12:00 the next day!

Swift Challenger 490

Sorento + Fabia to help the Sorento up hills!

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What make this illogical is by paying for another night any logic they did have has been bypassed.

 

If the rule is in place for access reasons, then people should not be allowed to leave after 12:00. Isn’t this a bit like paying for the night before, so you can arrive before 12:00 the next day!

 

This is an exceptional site even if you want to pay to arrive before 12 o'clock you will not be allowed due to the lane restriction.

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This is an exceptional site even if you want to pay to arrive before 12 o'clock you will not be allowed due to the lane restriction.

 

Hi,

That doesn't stop people at other restricted sites such as Rowntree Park at York, where members regularly turn up well before 12 o'clock,

regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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Why does everyone keep knocking the CC. These kinds of problems can happen at any site, it is not exclusive to CC. You will always find some wardens who are a bit more officious but it is very difficult for them on very busy sites. If you had to deal with all the arrivals and leavers on a busy site and control those who want to stay for a few more hours you might understand. If they agreed to all requests on a busy day they could have serious problems.

 

I have always found the wardens to be helpful when they have the time. I NEVER assume that I will be able to stay beyond the 12:00 deadline.

 

Roger

 

Roger I don't think Steve was knocking the C C, I am sure he is one of the regular and knows the problem. I bet he has got a few weekends booked there.

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Why does everyone keep knocking the CC. These kinds of problems can happen at any site, it is not exclusive to CC. You will always find some wardens who are a bit more officious but it is very difficult for them on very busy sites. If you had to deal with all the arrivals and leavers on a busy site and control those who want to stay for a few more hours you might understand. If they agreed to all requests on a busy day they could have serious problems.

 

I have always found the wardens to be helpful when they have the time. I NEVER assume that I will be able to stay beyond the 12:00 deadline.

 

Roger

Who's knocking the CC? I am not even knocking the warden, all I am doing is highlighting a rather silly double standard.

 

You defend them as if you are a warden (or was).

 

It is also very presumptious of you to assume I do not understand, and nor did I state that they should agree to all requests. (FYI my in-laws were CC wardens for a number of years)

 

If you care to read my post again, I have stated that I have no problem in paying for an extra night, nor did I say I had assumed anything!

 

I have NEVER assumed I will be able to stay on beyond the 12'Oclock dead line.

 

Just to clarify my point again. The warden stated it was a head office rule that everyone had to vacate by 12. 00pm due to the restricted access - Yet in the next instance took £10. 20 off me and allowed me to leave when I wanted.

 

For me if the rule is "EVERYONE" has to be off at 12. 00PM then "EVERYONE" should be off at 12. 00pm without exception.

 

It does not change the fact I would be leaving at the same time and would encounter whatever was coming up the lane regardless of paying for an extra night.

 

Funny though how when you ring the CC and speak to the staff at head office (done that and got the reply this morning), I am told it is left to the discretion of the wardens on site, usually if they know they will have spare capacity it is not normally a problem for you to stay on after the deadline (Yes I did clarify that it applied to Chatsworth).

 

 

 

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You was the one who wanted to pay for another night so that you don't have to abide by the 12 o'clock rule.

It was however the warden that applied the double standard, in knowing full well my intentions yet still took my booking and money.

 

 

 

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Hi Steve,

In asking you to pay the Warden has allowed him/her to say no to all the others who want to stay and there can be no claim of you receiving preferential treatment though there will be those who think that you've ignored the rules, but that's their problem.

There's certainly no rule to stop anybody leaving early, which is what you were doing,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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Steve - assume you didn't actually meet a stream of vans on the access road when you did leave - or did you?? :D

Bessacarr Cameo 525 towed by SsangYong Rexton 2.2 auto in Brown.

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Hi Roger,

What sounds logical?

The warden's application of specific site rules sound's logical to me.

 

Sites with poor access have standing restrictions on no new arrivals before 1200 and no departures after 1200 following a chargeable night's stay - as GP Steve was leaving 19 hours early, having paid for an extra night, there were simply nothing the warden could do to prevent GP Steve leaving even though he could meet all the incoming new arrivals.

 

The solution is equally obvious to me - fit traffic lights on the access road, like Merrose Farm at St Mawes - but I don't know if that's practical at Chatsworth.

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The warden's application of specific site rules sound's logical to me.

 

Sites with poor access have standing restrictions on no new arrivals before 1200 and no departures after 1200 following a chargeable night's stay - as GP Steve was leaving 19 hours early, having paid for an extra night, there were simply nothing the warden could do to prevent GP Steve leaving even though he could meet all the incoming new arrivals.

 

The solution is equally obvious to me - fit traffic lights on the access road, like Merrose Farm at St Mawes - but I don't know if that's practical at Chatsworth.

 

Ah, that’s where you and I differ. Yes, the warden was logical in following the CC rules, but not logical in allowing someone to leave after 12:00. Regardless of being 19 hours early. And regardless of weather the night is paid for or not. Surely the original intension of this particular rule was to stop oncoming traffic from meeting. And that’s just what the warden has allowed.

Swift Challenger 490

Sorento + Fabia to help the Sorento up hills!

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Ah, that’s where you and I differ. Yes, the warden was logical in following the CC rules, but not logical in allowing someone to leave after 12:00. Regardless of being 19 hours early. And regardless of weather the night is paid for or not. Surely the original intension of this particular rule was to stop oncoming traffic from meeting. And that’s just what the warden has allowed.

Having accepted payment for the extra night, the warden would have been committing a criminal offence (false imprisonment) if he tried to stop them leaving early.

 

I don't know this particular site - would traffic lights solve the problem?

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The road access is about 1000 yards with a couple of passing places.

 

As I understand it, the warden knowing that GPS was not stopping overnight, failed to charge the full fee so what would have happened if GPS had stayed overnight? :unsure:

I might even try it and leave early the next morning saving a few bob :D

Enjoy yourself, whatever you're doing

RAV4 Pegasus 534

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Having accepted payment for the extra night, the warden would have been committing a criminal offence (false imprisonment) if he tried to stop them leaving early.

 

I don't know this particular site - would traffic lights solve the problem?

 

Hi,

 

This is taken from the CC web site. ..

 

"Important Information

Entrance road to the site is very narrow therefore site access and exit has to be managed - only one outfit at a time. Strictly no arrivals before 1pm. 12 noon rule applies at all times on leaving the site. There is no Late Night Arrivals Area. Site Night Vouchers used in payment against a Super Pitch do not include the £3 per night Super Pitch Supplement, so this will still be payable.

No outfit over 5. 5 tonnes in weight can be accepted on this site".

 

Seems pretty clear cut to me, no one should be leaving after 12:00.

 

The road to the site is quite long and narrow in places, however I would have thought a coupple of passing places

could be installed or even as you say a traffic light system, if you look at the aeriel photo some sort of one way system might work.

Swift Challenger 490

Sorento + Fabia to help the Sorento up hills!

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From what I remember access at Chatsworth isn't easy and it only takes a couple of vans queuing to get in to block the main road so the departure rule is reasonable in that situation.

 

With regard to early arrivals, the C&CC make an additional charge for arrivals before 12 o'clock which I think is quite fair as it's to discourage people from arriving whilst others are still leaving.

Mine: Fiesta; his Mondeo Estate; ours Bailey Olympus534, DD1's Poppy the cocker but she comes with us!

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Steve - assume you didn't actually meet a stream of vans on the access road when you did leave - or did you?? :D

Left at 5. 00PM prompt, on handing in the gate key the warden wished us a safe journey and hoped to see us soon.

 

We had to wait in the lane for an Isuzu Trooper, I pulled into one of 4 passing places (not including the grass just before the court yard) as even though he wasn't towing anything, the road signs gave him priority.

 

 

GPS

 

 

 

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The warden's application of specific site rules sound's logical to me.

 

Sites with poor access have standing restrictions on no new arrivals before 1200 and no departures after 1200 following a chargeable night's stay - as GP Steve was leaving 19 hours early, having paid for an extra night, there were simply nothing the warden could do to prevent GP Steve leaving even though he could meet all the incoming new arrivals.

 

The solution is equally obvious to me - fit traffic lights on the access road, like Merrose Farm at St Mawes - but I don't know if that's practical at Chatsworth.

The access to the site is the responsibility of Chatsworth Estates, they can't even fill in the pot holes, so you have got no chance of them erecting traffic lights!

 

GPS

 

 

 

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