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mack100

Unable To Refit Al-ko Wheel Lock

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The fact is i doubt any wheel lock will survive a Gas cutting torch attack So i don't think this is a valid reason to keep away from one or "be warned" about them ;)

 

if the Al-ko lock gives me a discount and my old SAS wheel clamp doesn't i know which lock i'll have on my caravan

 

 

This one does allegedly http://jsbhublock. co. uk/

 

 

Phil.

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This one does allegedly http://jsbhublock. co. uk/

 

 

Phil.

 

Hi Phil

 

I still maintain that the wheelbolts are the weakness on these as the McGard bolts fitted are easily damaged by

overtightening (warning to that effect). As kwikfit etc can remove them easily if damaged, then so too can your

local or itinerant asset relocator - these sockets are available on ebay too easily for my liking.

It could be worth swapping the bolts to something decent and then they may have some merit if you don't mind

taking the wheels off - say for winter storage.

 

neil

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Hi Phil

 

I still maintain that the wheelbolts are the weakness on these as the McGard bolts fitted are easily damaged by

overtightening (warning to that effect). As kwikfit etc can remove them easily if damaged, then so too can your

local or itinerant asset relocator - these sockets are available on ebay too easily for my liking.

It could be worth swapping the bolts to something decent and then they may have some merit if you don't mind

taking the wheels off - say for winter storage.

 

neil

 

 

Yes i am aware of this theory, however, the guy that manufactures then says otherwise, in fact he invited tyre fitters to go along and try and remove the bolts, because of the way they are located none of them could do it.

 

They do have to be fitted with a torque wrench however.

 

Phil.

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Hi Phil

 

I still maintain that the wheelbolts are the weakness on these as the McGard bolts fitted are easily damaged by

overtightening (warning to that effect). As kwikfit etc can remove them easily if damaged, then so too can your

local or itinerant asset relocator - these sockets are available on ebay too easily for my liking.

It could be worth swapping the bolts to something decent and then they may have some merit if you don't mind

taking the wheels off - say for winter storage.

 

neil

 

Hello neil,

 

1) McGard bolts are not easily damaged. Look at Auto Express product tests, they have won these for the last four years. These are the best locking bolts on the market in my opinion (thats why we use them)and the best in Auto Express's opinion.

Why don't you state which is the best locking bolt and why?????????? "Something decent".

(http://www. autoexpress. co. uk/products/products/208522/locking_wheel_bolts. html)

The warning was added to our web site after a customer applied more than 210ft. lb torque, should be 65ft. lb. not because the McGard bolts are weak. Perhaps this is why you have had problems with your locking bolts. It may also be that they are not McGard.

All bolts can be sheared or stretched if excessive torque is applied.

Perhaps this is why caravan wheels often fall off. (A recent post on this forum).

You don't have to use a torque wrench but we do recommend it for those who have no understanding of what 65 ft. lb is.

On a wheel wrench at say 10" you must apply 78lb force. For 210ft. lb you would have to apply 252lb force (18 stone).

This has happened hence the warning.

 

2) Kwikfit and garages do have tools for removing locking wheel bolts from car wheels.

We have tested all of these, including the ones you will find on ebay, they can't remove the McGard bolts from the JSB Hublock. We have taken the Hublock to Gordon's Tyres, they use the same tools as we have tested and couldn't remove the locking bolts.

Sold Secure also use these removal tools in their tests (Gold Award), and they couldn't remove them from the JSB Hublock.

Before you mention the Diamond Award please be aware that this test is only available to Alko Secure and through the wheel type locks. This isn't available to other products nor does it include gas cutting gear.

3) The JSB Hublock is used all year round, not just for winter storage. Owners who have had a caravan stolen are happy to spend ten minutes fitting it to avoid a repeat visit from the thieves,(very common).

4) We have always made the JSB Hublock available to anyone who doubts our claims, so far no one has taken us up on our offer. If you still have doubts you could be the first.

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paul. 001 I assume from your comments that you work for/represent JSB and the hublock. If that is the case then you ought to register as a Trade member so that we all know here you stand.

 

poolebob

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Hello neil,

 

1) McGard bolts are not easily damaged. Look at Auto Express product tests, they have won these for the last four years. These are the best locking bolts on the market in my opinion (thats why we use them)and the best in Auto Express's opinion.

Why don't you state which is the best locking bolt and why?????????? "Something decent".

(http://www. autoexpress. co. uk/products/products/208522/locking_wheel_bolts. html)

The warning was added to our web site after a customer applied more than 210ft. lb torque, should be 65ft. lb. not because the McGard bolts are weak. Perhaps this is why you have had problems with your locking bolts. It may also be that they are not McGard.

All bolts can be sheared or stretched if excessive torque is applied.

Perhaps this is why caravan wheels often fall off. (A recent post on this forum).

You don't have to use a torque wrench but we do recommend it for those who have no understanding of what 65 ft. lb is.

On a wheel wrench at say 10" you must apply 78lb force. For 210ft. lb you would have to apply 252lb force (18 stone).

This has happened hence the warning.

 

2) Kwikfit and garages do have tools for removing locking wheel bolts from car wheels.

We have tested all of these, including the ones you will find on ebay, they can't remove the McGard bolts from the JSB Hublock. We have taken the Hublock to Gordon's Tyres, they use the same tools as we have tested and couldn't remove the locking bolts.

Sold Secure also use these removal tools in their tests (Gold Award), and they couldn't remove them from the JSB Hublock.

Before you mention the Diamond Award please be aware that this test is only available to Alko Secure and through the wheel type locks. This isn't available to other products nor does it include gas cutting gear.

3) The JSB Hublock is used all year round, not just for winter storage. Owners who have had a caravan stolen are happy to spend ten minutes fitting it to avoid a repeat visit from the thieves,(very common).

4) We have always made the JSB Hublock available to anyone who doubts our claims, so far no one has taken us up on our offer. If you still have doubts you could be the first.

 

Hi Paul. 001

 

My mention on easily damaged was about the delicate key grooves and I'm surprised and indeed very pleased

they can now go to 210ft/lbs :blink: (are the grooves a bit deeper than they had before) the shallow grooving was

the reason I needed one removing in the first place as the bolt had suffered cam-out and was just too badly

damaged to grip for normal removal, it wasn't a criticism that the bolt would shear off etc.

 

I discovered the damaged wheelbolt and couldn't remove it without it slipping on the damaged groove, so I took

the car into a local tyre fitter who then took less than 5 mins to take it off, basically with a 'specialist' socket! [1]

depending on wheelbolt make - just remove any spinning collars and add a bit of brute force to socket.

 

As I needed a new set of bolts I practised with the three remaining ones and they are very easy to damage just

by not tightening up squarely - OK on a car which is usually fit and forget but not on a van that is secured many

times in a season - probably fine as winter wheels mind you (removal socket aside).

 

I only have ordinary alloy wheels on my car so have no need of 'something decent' to protect them really, but as

a caravan can be getting on for £20K I would research wheelbolts better if I was using the hublocks - it may be

that McGard Ultra are the canine sphericals but the standard one came off my car way too quickly for my liking!!

it could be that other brands would be quicker still in removal which is a scarier thought too!

 

I am relieved that Sold Secure are using pro tools at last in their tests, as when they tested cycle locks they didn't

use the two [2] most popular cycle-thief tools (but perhaps having been roundly criticised by several bike mags

they may have started using them now) if SS are using all the professional kit then their accolade may have some

merit at last, rather than being a pretty badge to differentiate between no security and expensive and still pants!

 

I've looked at the link you provided and it is only the 'Ultra' that defeated the tester when tested but it says that

they would be defeat-able with 'heavyweight equipment' - but are you fitting the Ultra?

 

If the McGard bolts you're using are proof against the remover I'm thinking of, then I think the JSB hublocks are

probably the best anti-theft device on the market since the gas axe is the tool of choice for vans stored in more

secluded places and it is these that get repeat visits as you say - any vulnerable place stays that way usually.

 

I would gladly test a hublock if I was still in working as an engineer - perhaps you should send me one anyway

as my van is going to be stored in Merseyside :o (scousers are allowed to do stereotype jokes)

 

I have better security than hublocks though, I park it among newer vans and most have more axles :rolleyes:

 

neil

 

[1] The multi-needle [3] removal sockets don't have enough purchase to undo a McGard but the new removal

sockets work differently and it was one of these that got my wheelbolt out.

 

[2] Bolt cutters is one of them and the other overcomes D-locks in no time.

 

[3] I used to make odd sided wheel bolts (and keys ;)) which was a good earner, damn needle sockets spoiled that. ..

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Hello neil,

 

1) McGard bolts are not easily damaged. Look at Auto Express product tests, they have won these for the last four years. These are the best locking bolts on the market in my opinion (thats why we use them)and the best in Auto Express's opinion.

Why don't you state which is the best locking bolt and why?????????? "Something decent".

(http://www. autoexpress. co. uk/products/products/208522/locking_wheel_bolts. html)

The warning was added to our web site after a customer applied more than 210ft. lb torque, should be 65ft. lb. not because the McGard bolts are weak. Perhaps this is why you have had problems with your locking bolts. It may also be that they are not McGard.

All bolts can be sheared or stretched if excessive torque is applied.

Perhaps this is why caravan wheels often fall off. (A recent post on this forum).

You don't have to use a torque wrench but we do recommend it for those who have no understanding of what 65 ft. lb is.

On a wheel wrench at say 10" you must apply 78lb force. For 210ft. lb you would have to apply 252lb force (18 stone).

This has happened hence the warning.

 

2) Kwikfit and garages do have tools for removing locking wheel bolts from car wheels.

We have tested all of these, including the ones you will find on ebay, they can't remove the McGard bolts from the JSB Hublock. We have taken the Hublock to Gordon's Tyres, they use the same tools as we have tested and couldn't remove the locking bolts.

Sold Secure also use these removal tools in their tests (Gold Award), and they couldn't remove them from the JSB Hublock.

Before you mention the Diamond Award please be aware that this test is only available to Alko Secure and through the wheel type locks. This isn't available to other products nor does it include gas cutting gear.

3) The JSB Hublock is used all year round, not just for winter storage. Owners who have had a caravan stolen are happy to spend ten minutes fitting it to avoid a repeat visit from the thieves,(very common).

4) We have always made the JSB Hublock available to anyone who doubts our claims, so far no one has taken us up on our offer. If you still have doubts you could be the first.

 

 

Incorrect statement (yet again).

 

I could quite easily go out to my 'van and take a photo of a wheel clamp with the Diamond Award. Not made by Alko, not a "through the wheel".

 

Please do not misrepresent the "Sold Secure" system with untruths in order to promote your product.

Edited by Entwood

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paul. 001 I assume from your comments that you work for/represent JSB and the hublock. If that is the case then you ought to register as a Trade member so that we all know here you stand.

 

poolebob

 

 

Hello poolebob,

 

I have read the forum terms and conditions, I understand I have to be invited to become a trade member, it is not my free choice. If I were to be invited of course I would register as a trade member.

Meanwhile I am a caravanner like yourself and do make postings about various subjects if I think I have anything positive to add. I have found plenty of useful information on here myself.

I am the owner of JSB Hublock and have never tried to hide this in my postings.

I have not started any posting about the JSB Hublock, but where I have seen uninformed statements made, I do try to clarify any points. If some don't like the JSB Hublock or don't want to use it I have no problem, but don't make uninformed or misleading statements to others. Many people have decided to use it and are happy to have a new product that does stop the professional thieves and gas cutting equipment.

 

Regards,

JSB HUBLOCK LTD

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Hi Paul. 001

 

My mention on easily damaged was about the delicate key grooves and I'm surprised and indeed very pleased

they can now go to 210ft/lbs :blink: (are the grooves a bit deeper than they had before) the shallow grooving was

the reason I needed one removing in the first place as the bolt had suffered cam-out and was just too badly

damaged to grip for normal removal, it wasn't a criticism that the bolt would shear off etc.

 

I discovered the damaged wheelbolt and couldn't remove it without it slipping on the damaged groove, so I took

the car into a local tyre fitter who then took less than 5 mins to take it off, basically with a 'specialist' socket! [1]

depending on wheelbolt make - just remove any spinning collars and add a bit of brute force to socket.

 

As I needed a new set of bolts I practised with the three remaining ones and they are very easy to damage just

by not tightening up squarely - OK on a car which is usually fit and forget but not on a van that is secured many

times in a season - probably fine as winter wheels mind you (removal socket aside).

 

I only have ordinary alloy wheels on my car so have no need of 'something decent' to protect them really, but as

a caravan can be getting on for £20K I would research wheelbolts better if I was using the hublocks - it may be

that McGard Ultra are the canine sphericals but the standard one came off my car way too quickly for my liking!!

it could be that other brands would be quicker still in removal which is a scarier thought too!

 

I am relieved that Sold Secure are using pro tools at last in their tests, as when they tested cycle locks they didn't

use the two [2] most popular cycle-thief tools (but perhaps having been roundly criticised by several bike mags

they may have started using them now) if SS are using all the professional kit then their accolade may have some

merit at last, rather than being a pretty badge to differentiate between no security and expensive and still pants!

 

I've looked at the link you provided and it is only the 'Ultra' that defeated the tester when tested but it says that

they would be defeat-able with 'heavyweight equipment' - but are you fitting the Ultra?

 

If the McGard bolts you're using are proof against the remover I'm thinking of, then I think the JSB hublocks are

probably the best anti-theft device on the market since the gas axe is the tool of choice for vans stored in more

secluded places and it is these that get repeat visits as you say - any vulnerable place stays that way usually.

 

I would gladly test a hublock if I was still in working as an engineer - perhaps you should send me one anyway

as my van is going to be stored in Merseyside :o (scousers are allowed to do stereotype jokes)

 

I have better security than hublocks though, I park it among newer vans and most have more axles :rolleyes:

 

neil

 

[1] The multi-needle [3] removal sockets don't have enough purchase to undo a McGard but the new removal

sockets work differently and it was one of these that got my wheelbolt out.

 

[2] Bolt cutters is one of them and the other overcomes D-locks in no time.

 

[3] I used to make odd sided wheel bolts (and keys ;)) which was a good earner, damn needle sockets spoiled that. ..

 

 

Hello neil,

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't know if I have the time to keep on answering your posts, you are very prolific.

We have had no problems with McGard bolts other than one customer who applied more than 210 ft lb of torque.

As I explained this is the equivelent of 18 stone full body weight or 36 stone(with one foot on the floor)

We did research all security bolts and selected the McGard.

WHAT IS YOUR ALTERNATIVE CHOICE. -------------------------( )

The only problem is the "nut" using the spanner, not the McGard bolts.

Removing security bolts from car wheels is a common problem often carried out by garages and tyre fitters. The equipment does exist and you do mention some of them.

We have looked at ALL of these and our design prevents the use of all of these tools.

We have offered the JSB Hublock to several enginering companys, tyre fitters, and garages, none have been able to remove the Hublock. This was to all the engineers in all the companies with all the ideas they wanted to try.

Sold Secure can't remove the Hublock.

Most important of all, caravan thieves haven't removed the JSB Hublock, these are the real EXPERTS.

I will send you a Hublock if you still want to try, send me your email address.

 

Your idea of placing your van amongs't newer, bigger models, is good (for you).

What advice are you going to give to others on this forum with newer vans, twin axles, and storage at home or on unsecured storage sites?????

 

Regards,

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Incorrect statement (yet again).

 

I could quite easily go out to my 'van and take a photo of a wheel clamp with the Diamond Award. Not made by Alko, not a "through the wheel".

 

Please do not misrepresent the "Sold Secure" system with untruths in order to promote your product.

 

 

Entwood

 

Since you raised the subject of incorrect statements, how about this one. ...

 

There has been much "comment" on the supposed "fact" that the Alko wheel lock will not survive a "gas axe" attack . ... post No 23

 

Totally incorrect.

 

 

Phil.

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Incorrect statement (yet again).

 

I could quite easily go out to my 'van and take a photo of a wheel clamp with the Diamond Award. Not made by Alko, not a "through the wheel".

 

Please do not misrepresent the "Sold Secure" system with untruths in order to promote your product.

 

Hello again Entwood,

 

No need for a photo but please tell me and others on the forum the name and the model of the wheel clamp you have with a Diamond Award. I'll have a look at it, and it must be of interest to other forum users.

As far as I know the Alko Secure (Alko chassis) and Winterhoff (BPW chassis) have Sold Secure Diamond awards.

I've given information taken from the Sold Secure website, how does this misrepresent or even amount to an untruth.

We have used Sold Secure testing ourselves, so please explain your point.

 

Regards,

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Hello neil,

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't know if I have the time to keep on answering your posts, you are very prolific.

We have had no problems with McGard bolts other than one customer who applied more than 210 ft lb of torque.

As I explained this is the equivelent of 18 stone full body weight or 36 stone(with one foot on the floor)

We did research all security bolts and selected the McGard.

WHAT IS YOUR ALTERNATIVE CHOICE. -------------------------( )

The only problem is the "nut" using the spanner, not the McGard bolts.

Removing security bolts from car wheels is a common problem often carried out by garages and tyre fitters. The equipment does exist and you do mention some of them.

We have looked at ALL of these and our design prevents the use of all of these tools.

We have offered the JSB Hublock to several enginering companys, tyre fitters, and garages, none have been able to remove the Hublock. This was to all the engineers in all the companies with all the ideas they wanted to try.

Sold Secure can't remove the Hublock.

Most important of all, caravan thieves haven't removed the JSB Hublock, these are the real EXPERTS.

I will send you a Hublock if you still want to try, send me your email address.

 

Your idea of placing your van amongs't newer, bigger models, is good (for you).

What advice are you going to give to others on this forum with newer vans, twin axles, and storage at home or on unsecured storage sites?????

 

Regards,

 

Hi again

 

If you address my experience and concerns I wont need to write caveat warnings to members to the effect that the McGard

wheelnuts having (or had) two possible weaknesses:-

1. the chance of damaging the grooves by mis-ightening leading to ongoing problems - part answered by suggesting user error

2. the possibility of their removal by 'the usual suspects' with removal tools - ignored really but links to where product failed test?!?!

 

You haven't addressed my reply that shows that McGard std had been removed by AutoExpress - erm who? a car magazine (hardly top criminals)

and they also state that Ultra can be removed (with more equipment) but you neglected to mention which of these you use.

 

You think that because Sold Secure say they cant remove a JSB (and so can charge for top rating it??) you are convinced that it must be so - and you

still haven't clarified the diamond status query by another member as the SS website makes no mention of Diamond being through wheel only?

 

You have a good product that may have drawbacks (less than most!) but jumping in with both feet without stating who you were (we guessed ;))

doesn't help your case and ignoring some queries doesn't help either. I have PM'd you the usual attack method and removal tool used, can you

actually say this process was tried by you other testers (and did you see the SS tests incidentally)?

 

I have stated I don't need better protection for my £500 alloy car wheels but the weaknesses shown (cam out being first) would make me seek out

better wheelocks (if available!) if I was securing a £20K caravan (and only then on a hard standing for safety of wheel removal) and only for use as

winter wheels - all this on/off business is way too much hassle - insure the damn thing and use whatever satisfies the insurers as 'they' will have it

if they want it - on a HIAB with a mobile phone jammer to somewhere with tooling seems easiest to do and hardest to prevent. ..

 

neil

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Hello neil (again).

 

1) I have just read your PM, sorry I hadn't seen it earlier.

The answer is yes we have tried it, it wont fit over the McGard bolt. We designed the Hublock so it couldn't fit.

This was just one of the many devices we obtained before we completed the design.

2) You keep referring to removing bolts from car wheels, we have acknowleged the fact that security bolts can be removed from car wheels. That is why the design of the Hublock is different.

3) The bolts we use are McGard but not the Standard or the Ultra. Auto Express removed the standard bolts from "CAR WHEELS", they haven't removed them from the Hublock.

4) Sold Secure are just one of many who can't remove the bolts from the JSB Hublock, including yourself.

5) I think the Alko Secure uses a similar pattern bolt and I've heard no problems with them, we certainly haven't.

As I said it's more likely to be the nut using the spanner that's the problem. Garages use air guns to tighten car wheels and they are often over tightened. This is more likely to cause damage to your locking bolts.

6) A screw driver is no good for 65 ft. lb torque, so a dremmel is a waste of time, but you can try it.

7) I'm waiting for an answer regarding the Diamond Award, I'll let you know as soon as I can.

8) I take it your a NO regarding the Hublock and that you don't want to test it.

9) Where is your advice for other caravan users, some of who may be new, some may have just had a caravan stolen ?

Do you have any positive advice? What do you use, wheel clamps, hitch locks, steady locks, trackers, alarms.

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

Hi again

 

If you address my experience and concerns I wont need to write caveat warnings to members to the effect that the McGard

wheelnuts having (or had) two possible weaknesses:-

1. the chance of damaging the grooves by mis-ightening leading to ongoing problems - part answered by suggesting user error

2. the possibility of their removal by 'the usual suspects' with removal tools - ignored really but links to where product failed test?!?!

 

You haven't addressed my reply that shows that McGard std had been removed by AutoExpress - erm who? a car magazine (hardly top criminals)

and they also state that Ultra can be removed (with more equipment) but you neglected to mention which of these you use.

 

You think that because Sold Secure say they cant remove a JSB (and so can charge for top rating it??) you are convinced that it must be so - and you

still haven't clarified the diamond status query by another member as the SS website makes no mention of Diamond being through wheel only?

 

You have a good product that may have drawbacks (less than most!) but jumping in with both feet without stating who you were (we guessed ;))

doesn't help your case and ignoring some queries doesn't help either. I have PM'd you the usual attack method and removal tool used, can you

actually say this process was tried by you other testers (and did you see the SS tests incidentally)?

 

I have stated I don't need better protection for my £500 alloy car wheels but the weaknesses shown (cam out being first) would make me seek out

better wheelocks (if available!) if I was securing a £20K caravan (and only then on a hard standing for safety of wheel removal) and only for use as

winter wheels - all this on/off business is way too much hassle - insure the damn thing and use whatever satisfies the insurers as 'they' will have it

if they want it - on a HIAB with a mobile phone jammer to somewhere with tooling seems easiest to do and hardest to prevent. ..

 

neil

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Hello poolebob,

 

I have read the forum terms and conditions, I understand I have to be invited to become a trade member, it is not my free choice. If I were to be invited of course I would register as a trade member.

 

Hi paul,

I don't have a problem with what you have posted it's just that it is helpful where members do have commercial interests for that to be obvious because they are registered as trade members. It certainly doesn't restrict you in what you post.

So Mods/Admin how about inviting Paul to become a Trade member.

 

poolebob

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Hello neil (again).

 

1) I have just read your PM, sorry I hadn't seen it earlier.

The answer is yes we have tried it, it wont fit over the McGard bolt. We designed the Hublock so it couldn't fit.

This was just one of the many devices we obtained before we completed the design.

2) You keep referring to removing bolts from car wheels, we have acknowleged the fact that security bolts can be removed from car wheels. That is why the design of the Hublock is different.

3) The bolts we use are McGard but not the Standard or the Ultra. Auto Express removed the standard bolts from "CAR WHEELS", they haven't removed them from the Hublock.

4) Sold Secure are just one of many who can't remove the bolts from the JSB Hublock, including yourself.

5) I think the Alko Secure uses a similar pattern bolt and I've heard no problems with them, we certainly haven't.

As I said it's more likely to be the nut using the spanner that's the problem. Garages use air guns to tighten car wheels and they are often over tightened. This is more likely to cause damage to your locking bolts.

6) A screw driver is no good for 65 ft. lb torque, so a dremmel is a waste of time, but you can try it.

7) I'm waiting for an answer regarding the Diamond Award, I'll let you know as soon as I can.

8) I take it your a NO regarding the Hublock and that you don't want to test it.

9) Where is your advice for other caravan users, some of who may be new, some may have just had a caravan stolen ?

Do you have any positive advice? What do you use, wheel clamps, hitch locks, steady locks, trackers, alarms.

 

Regards

 

 

Hi again again

 

So now we are getting somewhere, it appears that the hublock is designed so that the usual car bolt removal techniques wont work,

I think maybe you should emphasise that a bit more, the website only hints at this and doesn't state it as you do above.

Where do the wheelbolts you use fit in in the McGard range then?

 

A dremel will cut a slot plenty big enough for turning with a socket mounted blade at any torque you like - tried that yet?

 

I wont take you up on your offer of a JSB as it and its ilk are way too much trouble (as is my damn Milenco) I must get a lighter and

easier one - you can send me one of them instead ;).

 

I have insurance and the van is in secure storage, if the van goes I would get another - sort of an upgrade opportunity :rolleyes: I use

more security than my insurance needs but wouldn't spend more on even more awkward to fit security devices. If starting out a

JSB is a cost effective solution for security on a remote site and is a good choice if the ground is suitable for jacking repeatedly,

I think I still wouldn't bother with such devices as it would put me off using the damn thing!

 

Incidentally if I could store the van at home without upsetting neighbours etc I still wouldn't secure it any differently as the security

conditions are the same wherever its kept.

 

neil

 

PS I don't think Auto Express tried to remove the bolts from a JSB and I haven't tried, the way you worded that may lead people

to believe we both failed but I certainly haven't tried

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Hi again again

 

So now we are getting somewhere, it appears that the hublock is designed so that the usual car bolt removal techniques wont work,

I think maybe you should emphasise that a bit more, the website only hints at this and doesn't state it as you do above.

Where do the wheelbolts you use fit in in the McGard range then?

 

A dremel will cut a slot plenty big enough for turning with a socket mounted blade at any torque you like - tried that yet?

 

I wont take you up on your offer of a JSB as it and its ilk are way too much trouble (as is my damn Milenco) I must get a lighter and

easier one - you can send me one of them instead ;).

 

I have insurance and the van is in secure storage, if the van goes I would get another - sort of an upgrade opportunity :rolleyes: I use

more security than my insurance needs but wouldn't spend more on even more awkward to fit security devices. If starting out a

JSB is a cost effective solution for security on a remote site and is a good choice if the ground is suitable for jacking repeatedly,

I think I still wouldn't bother with such devices as it would put me off using the damn thing!

 

Incidentally if I could store the van at home without upsetting neighbours etc I still wouldn't secure it any differently as the security

conditions are the same wherever its kept.

 

neil

 

PS I don't think Auto Express tried to remove the bolts from a JSB and I haven't tried, the way you worded that may lead people

to believe we both failed but I certainly haven't tried

 

Hello neil,

 

Thanks for your comments, I'm glad the penny finally dropped.

Send me your address and I'll send you a wheel clamp that's light and easy to use, please let me know which one it is.

I'm waiting for a reply from Entwood who has one with a Sold Secure "Diamond Award", perhaps you should consider this one.

I'll let you know if I get a PM.

 

Regards,

JSB HUBLOCK LTD

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Hello neil,

 

Thanks for your comments, I'm glad the penny finally dropped.

Send me your address and I'll send you a wheel clamp that's light and easy to use, please let me know which one it is.

I'm waiting for a reply from Entwood who has one with a Sold Secure "Diamond Award", perhaps you should consider this one.

I'll let you know if I get a PM.

 

Regards,

JSB HUBLOCK LTD

 

The wheel clamp was made by "Stronghold security" . .. http://www. stronghold-security. com/index. asp?pgid=32 and as I stated . . has the Sold Secure Diamond 7 rating . ...

 

It is neither a through the wheel or an Al-Ko . .. and you are adamant that only they can get diamond awards ??

 

My point is not to advertise these in any way . . but to show that your negative assertion about sold secure diamond rating is wrong

 

'Nuf said . . :)

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The wheel clamp was made by "Stronghold security" . .. http://www. stronghol. ..dex. asp?pgid=32 and as I stated . . has the Sold Secure Diamond 7 rating . ...

 

It is neither a through the wheel or an Al-Ko . .. and you are adamant that only they can get diamond awards ??

 

My point is not to advertise these in any way . . but to show that your negative assertion about sold secure diamond rating is wrong

 

'Nuf said . . :)

 

Hi Entwood

 

I see its about £90 but looks really easy to use. hmmm

 

neil

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Hello neil,

 

Thanks for your comments, I'm glad the penny finally dropped.

Send me your address and I'll send you a wheel clamp that's light and easy to use, please let me know which one it is.

I'm waiting for a reply from Entwood who has one with a Sold Secure "Diamond Award", perhaps you should consider this one.

I'll let you know if I get a PM.

 

Regards,

JSB HUBLOCK LTD

 

Me again

 

I'm trying to help get to the bottom of just how secure this lock is but your selective replying (repeatedly) is a bit of a barrier.

So I'll try again - The McGard locks you use aren't Std or Ultra so what are they? Better or worse or between?

and can a Dremel (or other brand) reach the bolt heads to engrave a slot for a strong and powerful driver bit?

 

It looks good, and now that we know that the bolts are a tight fit in the body it can be supposed that removal sockets are foiled

and maybe cam-out mis-use by not letting socket twist due to tight fit but you seen to be avoiding answering some questions?

 

neil

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The wheel clamp was made by "Stronghold security" . .. http://www. stronghold-security. com/index. asp?pgid=32 and as I stated . . has the Sold Secure Diamond 7 rating . ...

 

It is neither a through the wheel or an Al-Ko . .. and you are adamant that only they can get diamond awards ??

 

My point is not to advertise these in any way . . but to show that your negative assertion about sold secure diamond rating is wrong

 

'Nuf said . . :)

 

 

Hello Entwood,

 

Thanks for your comments.

I believe you have not understood the security ratings on the Stronghold Wheel Clamp, you need to look again at their web site, it looks clear enough to me.

It has Sold Secure's Gold Award, not the Sold Secure Diamond Award, also check the Sold Secure website.

Stronghold have their own "in house" security system (confusingly) called the Diamond Security Level.

Stronghold have tested it in house and given it their own "Diamond 7" award.

Perhaps you will acknowledge that I haven't been lying or spreading untruths, but it does appear you have been confused by the "Diamond awards" used by Sold Secure and by Stronghold.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

As Alko have a patent on the through the wheel lock (Alko Secure) it's unlikely any other device can achieve the Sold Secure Diamond Award. I have seen the specifications for the test procedures, so I do know what I'm talking about.

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

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Me again

 

I'm trying to help get to the bottom of just how secure this lock is but your selective replying (repeatedly) is a bit of a barrier.

So I'll try again - The McGard locks you use aren't Std or Ultra so what are they? Better or worse or between?

and can a Dremel (or other brand) reach the bolt heads to engrave a slot for a strong and powerful driver bit?

 

It looks good, and now that we know that the bolts are a tight fit in the body it can be supposed that removal sockets are foiled

and maybe cam-out mis-use by not letting socket twist due to tight fit but you seen to be avoiding answering some questions?

 

neil

 

Hello neil, and it's me again,

 

The McGard bolts we use have a smaller head than the Standard and the Ultra they provide for car wheels. These were recommended to us by McGard Germany when they visited us here in Ossett. This allows us to have a smaller hole in the Hublock with less clearance than you will find in your car wheels. These combined with the depth of the recess prevent the use of all the removal tools you have mentioned, and some you haven't.

The heads on the McGard are hardened (pot hard) a Dremmel won't touch it, why not try it on your McGard bolts.

I have explained that cam out is more likely to be caused by air wrenches used by garages and tyre fitters.

It may also be that your bolts are not McGard but Evo or some other McGard copy.

I hope the reply to Entwood explains the Sold Secure Diamond Award, perhaps you were also confused by the two different systems having similar names.

 

Now I'm going with my wife and son to the caravan, it should be a good weekend at Pickering.

 

Regards,

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Hello neil, and it's me again,

 

The McGard bolts we use have a smaller head than the Standard and the Ultra they provide for car wheels. These were recommended to us by McGard Germany when they visited us here in Ossett. This allows us to have a smaller hole in the Hublock with less clearance than you will find in your car wheels. These combined with the depth of the recess prevent the use of all the removal tools you have mentioned, and some you haven't.

The heads on the McGard are hardened (pot hard) a Dremmel won't touch it, why not try it on your McGard bolts.

I have explained that cam out is more likely to be caused by air wrenches used by garages and tyre fitters.

It may also be that your bolts are not McGard but Evo or some other McGard copy.

I hope the reply to Entwood explains the Sold Secure Diamond Award, perhaps you were also confused by the two different systems having similar names.

 

Now I'm going with my wife and son to the caravan, it should be a good weekend at Pickering.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

:):) I thought that too.

 

 

Phil.

Edited by CTAdmin

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This one does allegedly http://jsbhublock. co. uk/

 

 

Phil.

 

Is it just me or is the JSBhublock actually a winter wheel, not a wheel lock?

 

To me a wheel lock is something that is applied to the wheel & tyre combo, and can be removed and refitted promptly without trouble. A winter wheel in my mind is a more semi-permanent security method - I wouldn't want to be getting the jack out to remove a winter wheel to fit a wheel to remove a winter wheel, and then reverse the whole process on the return homes, especially if it was just a weekend away. Not to mention the fact that properly fastened wheel nuts/bolts can stay fastened if they are left alone, but checked on a regular basis. Has their been feedback from JSBhubclamp owners and their use on storage sites?

 

Looking at the Sold Secure 2009 listings you are right that the only diamond rated products they list are through the wheel wheelclamps from Alko & Winterhoff.

 

 

I've read the thread with interest as our new caravan has a receiver for the AlKo lock, but while many are happy with it, many are not. The quest continues.

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Guess who?

 

I ask a lot of questions to see if a product is as good as the maker claims, as I know that Sold Secure testing is a bit odd (or was).

I had to ask several questions (or the same one several times) to get answers on behalf of perhaps phil1041 who needs a better

lock for his remote storage - well better than the Alko thing anyway. (I bet he'd like a free sample to test.)

 

neil

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Guess who?

 

I ask a lot of questions to see if a product is as good as the maker claims, as I know that Sold Secure testing is a bit odd (or was).

I had to ask several questions (or the same one several times) to get answers on behalf of perhaps phil1041 who needs a better

lock for his remote storage - well better than the Alko thing anyway. (I bet he'd like a free sample to test.)

 

neil

 

Hi Neil

 

Yes i would, thanks for suggesting it!

 

On a more serious note, as you obviously know more about secure wheel bolts than i do, has the chap from JSB convinced you yet?

 

Phil.

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