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Company Cars/ Mayday/ Warning!


humberflyer
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I know that there are many folk who tow with Company or Lease vehicles who like myself have cover with CC Mayday/Green Flag. Have picked up a thread on another forum that Mayday DONT cover Company or Leased vehicles. I have had Mayday cover for the past five years as my company car cover through the AA does not include Caravans, fortunately, have not had to call Mayday out during that time as i was apparently not covered! Have just phoned Mayday/Green Flag customer services who confirmed that they DONT cover Company/Leased cars. Iam also a member of C&CC, so contacted the Clubs RAC Arrival service a they confirmed that they WILL cover Company/Leased cars, this is because RAC is personal membership so you can call them out if you are a driver or passenger in any car. The RAC Call Centre staff were excellent in explaining levels of cover, just like Mayday its geared up for Caravans with all the benefits of Double Journey cover etc. Arrival is only available to C&CC members but you do get 15% discount on normal RAC rates with of course all the extra benefits for Caravans which are not available with normal RAC Membership. Further info tel 0800 197 7823 and quote CL0028. Hope this helps.

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I know that there are many folk who tow with Company or Lease vehicles who like myself have cover with CC Mayday/Green Flag. Have picked up a thread on another forum that Mayday DONT cover Company or Leased vehicles. I have had Mayday cover for the past five years as my company car cover through the AA does not include Caravans, fortunately, have not had to call Mayday out during that time as i was apparently not covered! Have just phoned Mayday/Green Flag customer services who confirmed that they DONT cover Company/Leased cars. Iam also a member of C&CC, so contacted the Clubs RAC Arrival service a they confirmed that they WILL cover Company/Leased cars, this is because RAC is personal membership so you can call them out if you are a driver or passenger in any car. The RAC Call Centre staff were excellent in explaining levels of cover, just like Mayday its geared up for Caravans with all the benefits of Double Journey cover etc. Arrival is only available to C&CC members but you do get 15% discount on normal RAC rates with of course all the extra benefits for Caravans which are not available with normal RAC Membership. Further info tel 0800 197 7823 and quote CL0028. Hope this helps.

I have a leased vehicle and also have mayday to cover the caravan. As far as I am concerned, not being informed to the contrary, the car is covered. They did not ask who owned the car but wanted to know where the car was normally kept. I will hopefully never require the service but if I do and am refused there will be hell to pay!!!

Hope you are not connected to the RAC BTW as you seem very keen on them!

Martin W

Discovery D3 HSE + Coachman VIP 575/4 2016

www.pennplanning.co.uk

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Hi Humberflyer

 

I also use the RAC with C&CC membership because there are restrictions on the length of caravans that most recovery companys will tow including twin axle bailey vans and alike. Also they have no problem recovering some commercial vehicles ( I tow with a 4X4 pickup) as long as they are not sign written. I didn't want to learn the hard way in the event that my 13m vehicle and van were stranded at the side of the road.

 

Sean

Edited by sean c

Bailey s5 Senator Carolina + Ford Ranger Double Cab + VFR800Fiw

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Hi Wonky, No, iam not connected with RAC, just searching now for alternative cover as i dont want to be caught out at the roadside arguing with Green Flag over whats in the small print! I even contacted Britannia Rescue who i can get a good discount with through my membership of CSMA but they wont cover company/lease cars either.

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If they don't ask this question when you take out the policy how would they know any different ? If it was an important issue to them they'd ask it when applying for cover.

 

Can't see anything in the blurb on the CC website about this.

 

I have sent the CC an email asking them to clarify this. I'll let you know the response.

Edited by Wirral Tourer
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I agree, if the issue is important enough to determine whether they will or wont attend a breakdown then its material and they should ask the question when you take the cover out or provide a clear warning. The Unfair Contract Terms Act springs to mind !! I quote "Contractual exclusion clauses in relation to services are not illegal but they are not enforceable if they are unreasonable."

 

 

 

Regards

 

NRF

Edited by NewRangerFamily
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Hi All, Just downloaded a copy of the Mayday Policy Guide from the CC Website Page 16 5) Cover is only available under this policy for the following, "A privately registered motor car,motor cycle,three wheeler,car based van,motor home or motor caravan". So is a Company/Lease Car Privately registered?

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I have just trawled through the Green Flag policy document and the only reference I can find is within the "definition of Vehicle" which is –

 

any vehicle we have agreed to cover and which is shown on the Motoring Assistance Schedule or, where Personal Cover applies, any vehicle you or your spouse or partner are traveling in, provided it:

• is either; a car, light van, motorised caravan, estate car,

motorcycle or 4x4 off-road vehicle, privately registered in the United Kingdom.

 

However, I think they would fall foul of the Financial Services Aurthority if a claim was refused, as under new the "Treating Customers Fairly" charter they have to disclose verbally as well as in print, all significant benefits and exclusions relevant to the customer. So unless during the completion of the proposal they ask the question "Do you own this vehicle/ are you the registered keeper" they are on a sticky wicket.

 

Also this is not listed in the policy under General Exclusions, which it clearly is, in addition the policy document is not provided until after you have purchased cover so you cannot give it due consideration prior to purchase.

 

However, it is a legal requirement that you do have 14 days to cancel the policy if cover does not meet your needs.

 

GPS

 

 

 

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Just to add to this, it is not just company cars that are affected, I PCP my cars and i have freinds who PCH their cars, these too are classed by a lot of Insurance companies as leased, the reason being that the drivers name does not appear on the registration document but the name of the company supplying the vehicle.

 

I have been asked by insurance companies, who is the registered keeper of the vehicle? after this they will not quote you if you are in a PCP or PCH agreement.

 

On the other hand, other companies don't ask the question, be very careful or you could find yourself uninsured if your name does not appear on the registration document!

 

Phil.

Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
Mine : Mercedes GLC 250d AMG, Lunar Clubman SB, Rockwood 5th Wheel Trailer, La Manga Spain.

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Just to add to this, it is not just company cars that are affected, I PCP my cars and i have freinds who PCH their cars, these too are classed by a lot of Insurance companies as leased, the reason being that the drivers name does not appear on the registration document but the name of the company supplying the vehicle.

 

I have been asked by insurance companies, who is the registered keeper of the vehicle? after this they will not quote you if you are in a PCP or PCH agreement.

 

On the other hand, other companies don't ask the question, be very careful or you could find yourself uninsured if your name does not appear on the registration document!

 

Phil.

 

My eyes are being openned as I read each submission.

 

I had a Company Leased Car from 1986. . until last March (08).

 

Car recovery (UK or EU) was taken care of by the Leasing Company. .. but as I was a caravanner I "covered" my annual vacations by using Mayday/Red Pennant from the CC.

 

I had a letter from the Leasing Company to say that I was authorised to take the car abroad. .. but it never occurred to me that I was not covered by Mayday/Red Pennant because my tug was a company car!

 

Being cynical. ..is this a situation a la Bank Charges and PPI. .. whereby I can reclaim my premiums because I was not likely to get the cover I was paying for. . but thankfully never needed????

 

I've re-educated myself in the last 12 months and I now have Fully Comprehensive Car Insurance in the EU via SAGA. .. I niavely thought it came as standard last March when I insured with e-Sure for the first time privately in 20+ years.

 

Interesting topic. .. thanks to the OP.

 

G.

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Hi.

 

Your V5 shows the Registered KEEPER.

 

Your insurance refers to the Vehicle OWNER and/or DRIVER.

 

I think there could be a clash of personalities. I have a vague memory of DVLC declaring that finance companies (owners) were not responsible for untaxed vehicles.

 

Wasn't Mrs Kinnock stopped on a motorway for driving an untaxed car. I believe it was a leased car, and the leasing company were responsible for taxing it. I can't remember the outcome.

 

I believe that in a case like that, whoever's name is on the V5 pays a fine, and back tax. And if the driver has a different name, they pay a fine and that months tax.

 

But all that is OT. ...except that a car on hire purchase is probably company owned, but privately registered.

 

602

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Just to add to this, it is not just company cars that are affected, I PCP my cars and i have Friends who PCH their cars, these too are classed by a lot of Insurance companies as leased, the reason being that the drivers name does not appear on the registration document but the name of the company supplying the vehicle.

 

I have been asked by insurance companies, who is the registered keeper of the vehicle? after this they will not quote you if you are in a PCP or PCH agreement.

 

Phil.

Hi Phil, when you quote PCP is that a Personal Contract Purchase?

 

If so, it is classed as a hire purchase agreement as is a standard HP agreement and a Lease Purchase agreement, they are all classed as ownership products, the reason being that as part of the agreement, you have the option to purchase the vehicle by paying Part C of the Option to Purchase Fee and any residual amount deferred until the end of the agreement. In all cases you are the registered keeper not a leasing or finance company.

 

The main difference between a Personal Contract Purchase (PCP) and a Lease Purchase (LP) agreement, is that with a PCP, if the vehicle is worth less than the deferred amount it is guaranteed by the finance company, where as with a LP agreement the purchaser is responsible for the deferred amount regardless of the vehicle's value.

 

There is often confusion as to why a product with the word "Lease" is still an ownership product, well this goes back to the days when you could only take out a loan over a maximum of 2 years and had to pay a minimum 20% deposit. Many business could not afford to take 20% out of the companies cash flow, so finance companies invented Lease Purchase, it allowed nominal deposits equal to X number of monthly payments (usually 3).

 

By mentioning "Lease" in the title it got around the 20% ruling.

 

So a Personal Contract Purchase should be treated the same as a Hire Purchase and Lease Purchase agreement by the insurance company, if it is not it is down to their lack of understanding of the finance product.

 

 

GPS

 

 

 

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I hope the CC & Green Flag would not use this tenuous form of wording to avoid a claim etc - be interesting what reply is received to the enquiry for clarification. I had a company car for years until I retired and generally took out Mayday for the caravan cover - like everyone else, I was never asked who owned the car.

Bessacarr Cameo 525 towed by SsangYong Rexton 2.2 auto in Brown.

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Hi,

I have, over the years, had need to call out the rescue services and I've never been asked who owns the car, though I certainly wouldn't want to risk it. What happenned to simplicity when taking out breakdown cover? There seems to be far to many restrictions these days,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

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Hi Phil, when you quote PCP is that a Personal Contract Purchase?

 

If so, it is classed as a hire purchase agreement as is a standard HP agreement and a Lease Purchase agreement, they are all classed as ownership products, the reason being that as part of the agreement, you have the option to purchase the vehicle by paying Part C of the Option to Purchase Fee and any residual amount deferred until the end of the agreement. In all cases you are the registered keeper not a leasing or finance company.

 

The main difference between a Personal Contract Purchase (PCP) and a Lease Purchase (LP) agreement, is that with a PCP, if the vehicle is worth less than the deferred amount it is guaranteed by the finance company, where as with a LP agreement the purchaser is responsible for the deferred amount regardless of the vehicle's value.

 

There is often confusion as to why a product with the word "Lease" is still an ownership product, well this goes back to the days when you could only take out a loan over a maximum of 2 years and had to pay a minimum 20% deposit. Many business could not afford to take 20% out of the companies cash flow, so finance companies invented Lease Purchase, it allowed nominal deposits equal to X number of monthly payments (usually 3).

 

By mentioning "Lease" in the title it got around the 20% ruling.

 

So a Personal Contract Purchase should be treated the same as a Hire Purchase and Lease Purchase agreement by the insurance company, if it is not it is down to their lack of understanding of the finance product.

GPS

 

 

Hi GPS

 

Yes i do mean Personal Contract Purchase.

 

Thank you for your post which I found very interesting, i was not aware of this, my problem, however, is still that when i PCP a car I have never received the registration document, I assumed that they keep it in order to issue the Excise Licence which is part of the agreement. I will be going abroad this year with the van and so i will need a copy of the registration document, it will be interesting to see who the registered owner is.

 

I think there is some confusion between registered owners/keepers/drivers which causes all the confusion.

 

Phil.

Edited by phil1041

Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
Mine : Mercedes GLC 250d AMG, Lunar Clubman SB, Rockwood 5th Wheel Trailer, La Manga Spain.

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Many cars, company, rented or leased are registered in the name of one of the directors rather than the company itself - this makes them easier to sell on when the time comes - I don't see how a breakdown company can tell the difference unless they ask very specific questions - which you must answer honestly.

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This thread is also running on another forum, and have just read a post from today where a CC member who was about to renew his Mayday cover, he tows with a Motability car, phoned Mayday to check if he was covered with a Motability car, the answer was NO.

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Just received this response from the CC. Quite positive:

 

"Further to your enquiry - you are covered for your company vehicle:

 

Green Flag are in currently in discussions with their underwriting team to pull together the correct wording to clarify this point. In the meantime, putting it basically, they will cover someone who runs a company/leased vehicle which they use day to day as their personal vehicle, i. e. they may be a sales rep using their vehicle during working hours to visit customers, but they also use their vehicle on an evening or during holiday's for personal use.

 

If a company vehicle is used for hire or reward then this would not be covered on a Mayday policy.

 

Once the underwriting team have agreed the correct wording to clarify this we will communicate to our sales & service teams and look at the possibility of communicating the information to the members via a magazine editorial or website.

 

I hope this clarifies the situation. "

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Hi Wirral Tourer, thanks for sharing this info with us, it certainly seems to clarify the situation.

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Interesting that my cheap-as-chips £59 a year for UK and EU from Quoteline Direct includes the wording:

 

"Vehicles less than 20 years old at date of inception, owned by or the responsibility of the policyholder or his/ her immediate family.

 

Being cars, motorised caravans, motorcycles (up to 15 years old), light vans, estate cars, or 4x4 sport utility vehicles, registered in the UK area. "

 

My emphasis.

 

Sometimes you don't get what you pay for. .......

Ian.
2013 Freelander 2 SD4 Auto / 2005 Bailey Pageant Vendée; 1952 Norton ES2

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Interesting that my cheap-as-chips £59 a year for UK and EU from Quoteline Direct includes the wording:

 

"Vehicles less than 20 years old at date of inception, owned by or the responsibility of the policyholder or his/ her immediate family.

 

Being cars, motorised caravans, motorcycles (up to 15 years old), light vans, estate cars, or 4x4 sport utility vehicles, registered in the UK area. "

 

My emphasis.

 

Sometimes you don't get what you pay for. .......

 

Interesting. Would that policy cover you if the caravan was the cause of the 'breakdown', e. g. if a caravan wheel needed changing on a motorway ?

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Indeed. The caravan is specifically included, up to a length of 7 metres. I have it in writing that this does not include the drawbar so any UK legal van is covered.

 

Another quote:

 

"Being cars, motorised caravans, motorcycles (up to 15 years old), light vans, estate cars, or 4x4 sport utility vehicles, registered in the UK area.

 

• a towed caravan or trailer of proprietary make;

• in good roadworthy condition, maintained and operated in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations and hold a current valid MOT certificate if applicable;

• not used for hire or reward;

• not exceeding (including any load carried) the following gross vehicle weight (as shown in the manufacturer’s handbook and on the vehicle chassis plate) and dimensions: weight 3500kg; length 7m; height 3m; width 2. 25m.

• carrying no more than the number of persons recommended by the manufacturer and for whom seats are available, with a maximum of 8 persons, including the driver. ".

 

The FAQ section on the provider's website makes it quite clear that if the caravan breaks down or is accidentally damaged that it would be recovered or repaired in the same way as if the towing vehicle broke down.

 

I have only used the service once, and at that time was not towing. But the recovery vehicle happily transported my Disco 40 miles or so to my regular repairer.

Edited by iansoady

Ian.
2013 Freelander 2 SD4 Auto / 2005 Bailey Pageant Vendée; 1952 Norton ES2

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