Jump to content

Dealer Agreeing My Caravan Is Mine


ivan leslie
 Share

Recommended Posts

took my van into the local dealer last friday and asked reception to sign a note I had prepared saying that it was only in for service and the legal owner was me (this in case of the dealer going bust and the receiver getting his/her hands on my van) - receptionist said she couldn't sign it but would talk to the owner when he came in later and I could pick the note up later that day. Got a phone call couple of hours later to say the company would NOT sign the note - no further explanation forthcoming! As I had left the van, and they promised it would be ready on Monday afternoon, I reluctantly told them to go ahead - all was ok and I collected it Tuesday morning with no problems.

Trying to work out why the owner would not agree that the caravan was my property - just because no-one else has done this before? are they in difficult straits and liable to go bust? just bloody minded? all or some of these?

anyone else had this problem?

Bessacarr Cameo 525 towed by SsangYong Rexton 2.2 auto in Brown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

took my van into the local dealer last friday and asked reception to sign a note I had prepared saying that it was only in for service and the legal owner was me (this in case of the dealer going bust and the receiver getting his/her hands on my van) - receptionist said she couldn't sign it but would talk to the owner when he came in later and I could pick the note up later that day. Got a phone call couple of hours later to say the company would NOT sign the note - no further explanation forthcoming! As I had left the van, and they promised it would be ready on Monday afternoon, I reluctantly told them to go ahead - all was ok and I collected it Tuesday morning with no problems.

Trying to work out why the owner would not agree that the caravan was my property - just because no-one else has done this before? are they in difficult straits and liable to go bust? just bloody minded? all or some of these?

anyone else had this problem?

 

Ivan,

 

Surely the CRiS registration says it yours. .. the original receipt for your purchase says it's yours. .. and no one has a receipt signed by you saying it's their's. ... so why the cautious approach?

 

The dealer maybe hasn't come across this request before. ... maybe he thinks you have outstanding finance on it and isn't prepared to commit himself to it being yours.

 

Perhaps if you'd asked him to sign something to say it wasn't his. .. he may have reacted differently!

 

Don't know. . can't guess. .... but I wouldn't sign to say it was yours. ... even if you had a CRiS registration document. .. I'd call CRiS if I felt there was a need to establish ownership. .. ie I was planning to buy it. ..but probably not if I was just servicing it!!!

 

G.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could be a legal problem. Most car repairers (and caravan repairers probably) will not let you have your vehicle back until you've paid the bill. If the dealer signs your note he is agreeing to your ownership of the 'van which would include any parts he's fitted and any labour he's supplied during your service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

took my van into the local dealer last friday and asked reception to sign a note I had prepared saying that it was only in for service and the legal owner was me (this in case of the dealer going bust and the receiver getting his/her hands on my van) - receptionist said she couldn't sign it but would talk to the owner when he came in later and I could pick the note up later that day. Got a phone call couple of hours later to say the company would NOT sign the note - no further explanation forthcoming! As I had left the van, and they promised it would be ready on Monday afternoon, I reluctantly told them to go ahead - all was ok and I collected it Tuesday morning with no problems.

Trying to work out why the owner would not agree that the caravan was my property - just because no-one else has done this before? are they in difficult straits and liable to go bust? just bloody minded? all or some of these?

anyone else had this problem?

If the finance company or the receivers went in, they would label and seize every caravan on the site.

 

It would then be down to you to prove you actually owned the caravan, this could tie you up for months.

 

GPS

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the finance company or the receivers went in, they would label and seize every caravan on the site.

 

It would then be down to you to prove you actually owned the caravan, this could tie you up for months.

 

GPS

 

GPS,

 

Do you have any examples to back up this point?

 

Recently a Nissan Dealership (I know cars not caravans but. ...) near me went bust.

 

Customers and the mechanics had cars and (in some cases) 10's of £1000 of tools/equipment (I think the highest was £35k in tools) but all were re-united with their cars/tools/equipment with a week to 10 days. .. by the Administrator.

 

G.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GPS,

 

Do you have any examples to back up this point?

 

Recently a Nissan Dealership (I know cars not caravans but. ...) near me went bust.

 

Customers and the mechanics had cars and (in some cases) 10's of £1000 of tools/equipment (I think the highest was £35k in tools) but all were re-united with their cars/tools/equipment with a week to 10 days. .. by the Administrator.

 

G.

An administrator as in "the business was put into administration" means a company has been appointed to allow the ailing business to continue trading until it can be either restructured or sold.

 

So in your example that would be the case.

 

A receiver is appointed by its creditors when a business ceases trading, to wind it up, liquidate its assets and priorities the paying of the debts of the company.

======================================================================

 

In bygone days the dealer had a finance company cheque book and paid for the caravan out of a funding pool (known as traditional funding), similar to an overdraft facility. The major disadvantage of this was that the finance company did not have clear title to each caravan as it was not identified on an individual basis.

 

Now when a finance company provides a used stocking facility for a caravan dealer, each caravan is funded on an individual basis, i. e. when a caravan is put on the stocking plan, a fixed amount (usually based on the trade value) is allocated to it.

 

Unfortunately when a dealer goes to the wall the finance company needs to ensure the stock they have loaned money for is safe, in the ensuing rush to get in before the receivers tie everything down, the finance company will label every used caravan as theirs and sort out afterwards true ownership (possession being 9/10ths etc)

 

The finance company is only interested in the caravans, unless they have additional security against fixtures, fittings and premises, this is called a fixed and floating charge.

 

If your caravan is on site for servicing or warranty work when the dealer goes under, it too will get labeled and then you will have to wait until the finance company has checked the stock sheets against the stocking plan, once they have realised it is not theirs, it could then be down to you to chase the receivers to get back your caravan.

 

GPS

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most car repairers (and caravan repairers probably) will not let you have your vehicle back until you've paid the bill.

 

I know dealers (car) do this, but they cannot legally do this wether you pay the bill or not!

Matthew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would then be down to you to prove you actually owned the caravan, this could tie you up for months.

 

GPS

 

Hi,

 

When you think about it, what proof have you got that you OWN your car, unless you have receipts going back to when it was first bought new. (I think this is a requirement in France. ???). Your V5 only shows the Registered Keeper. Proving ownership of a caravan is probably easier.

 

In the same vein, DVLA are only interested in the Registered Keeper, and sometimes the User (driving an untaxed car belonging to somebody else). Insurance companies are only interested in the OWNER and/or the driver.

 

602

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the finance company or the receivers went in, they would label and seize every caravan on the site.

 

It would then be down to you to prove you actually owned the caravan, this could tie you up for months.

 

GPS

Endorse this view. Leaving a van for a week for servicing without a receipt in any climate has risk let alone at the moment. The receiver might well think the van is an early delivered trade in and therefore part of the assets. of the business and needs proof of title.

 

Having worked for a leasing company in the past with lessees going bust and then having to prove title to goods on hire re inforces my view on this.

 

If a dealer would not sign a received for service note then I would nt deal with him. ..

 

This is not over cautious just sensible. ...

Edited by Fenester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is up to the administrators to prove that the caravan does nto belong to you and there is nothing stopping you from removing your goods provided nothing is owed on it excluding finance so no rela issue here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I know that when a local car dealer went under the only person to lose their car (£14000 worth) was a customer who had ordered a new car and dropped off his Part Ex early as he was going on holiday. Unfortunately he signed the car over to the garage and it was their car technically.

Regarding Caravan Dealers going bust when they are working on our 'van, I'm not too bothered as I can prove that it's mine. The Dealer also putss a note in the window that it's a customer 'van,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is up to the administrators to prove that the caravan does nto belong to you and there is nothing stopping you from removing your goods provided nothing is owed on it excluding finance so no rela issue here.

Surfer - have you ever tried to reclaim goods after a receiver has been brought in?? In my previous business life I have and it was difficult to say the least. As has been noted in other replies, all stock was labelled up and it would not be released easily. Eventually it was, but that was with the backing of our companies legal team and I certainly wouldn't want to try to do it as an individual. If my dealer had gone bust during the time my van was on their premises, I feel sure that I would have eventually got it back but only after lots of hassle and who knows how long it would take.

Bessacarr Cameo 525 towed by SsangYong Rexton 2.2 auto in Brown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is up to the administrators to prove that the caravan does nto belong to you and there is nothing stopping you from removing your goods provided nothing is owed on it excluding finance so no rela issue here.

You may well turn up to find the yard closed and the gates chained up stopping you remove your van . .. in my view this is a real issue and in any case why not be better safe than sorry just simply ask for a receipt. In the case of a trade in only take the old van in when you collect the new one. .

 

Whether theoretically this is or not an issue is a very different matter to the reality of if you are wrong and you have difficulty in claiming your van back is it not?

 

With utmost respect I would nt want to be testing your view in the real world in real circumstances would you?

Edited by Fenester
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

was a customer who had ordered a new car and dropped off his Part Ex early as he was going on holiday. Unfortunately he signed the car over to the garage and it was their car technically.

Ian.

 

Hi,

 

Technically, when a deraler takes a trade in, he is buying it from you, and selling you another. Two distinct deals.

 

In the above case, the dealer probably hasn't paid for the trade in. Does that mean that technically, it doesn't belong to the dealer, or that the dealer owes the punter some money.

 

602

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Technically, when a deraler takes a trade in, he is buying it from you, and selling you another. Two distinct deals.

 

In the above case, the dealer probably hasn't paid for the trade in. Does that mean that technically, it doesn't belong to the dealer, or that the dealer owes the punter some money.

 

602

 

Hi 602,

There was an outstanding debt owing to the customer of £14000 so he became just another creditor,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John KS

To solve the problem. perhaps it would be easier (and possibly cheaper) to have the van serviced at home by a mobile service engineer.

Strangely, I went to my dealers today to book my van in for a service and there was a moble engineer there. He spoke to me after I booked it and said he would service the van at a fraction of the cost. I said there was a warranty issue and he said hecouldn't do it then.

Seems that the dealers have the servicing all tied up with the manufacturers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To solve the problem. perhaps it would be easier (and possibly cheaper) to have the van serviced at home by a mobile service engineer.

Strangely, I went to my dealers today to book my van in for a service and there was a moble engineer there. He spoke to me after I booked it and said he would service the van at a fraction of the cost. I said there was a warranty issue and he said hecouldn't do it then.

Seems that the dealers have the servicing all tied up with the manufacturers!

At least one manufacturer, Bailey, lists mobile service engineers for certain areas who are approved, so keeping to the warranty conditions, but they probably aren't authorised to carry out warranty repairs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You may well turn up to find the yard closed and the gates chained up stopping you remove your van . .. in my view this is a real issue and in any case why not be better safe than sorry just simply ask for a receipt. In the case of a trade in only take the old van in when you collect the new one. .

 

Whether theoretically this is or not an issue is a very different matter to the reality of if you are wrong and you have difficulty in claiming your van back is it not?

 

With utmost respect I would nt want to be testing your view in the real world in real circumstances would you?

Hi Fenester - thats exactly why I tred to get the note signed in the first place.

Bessacarr Cameo 525 towed by SsangYong Rexton 2.2 auto in Brown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi 602,

There was an outstanding debt owing to the customer of £14000 so he became just another creditor,

Regards,

Ian.

 

Hi Ian,

 

So the dealer had bought the car, but not paid for it. I wonder if the car was still the property of a finance company. Interesting if it was the SAME finance company. :huh:

 

602

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ian,

 

So the dealer had bought the car, but not paid for it. I wonder if the car was still the property of a finance company. Interesting if it was the SAME finance company. :huh:

 

602

 

Hi 602,

That's correct as the outstanding £14000 would have been taken off the price of the new car so the money would never physically change hands. A very expensive lesson for the poor family,

Regards,

Ian.

Bailey Unicorn Vigo and a 2017 Ford S Max and a Mercedes SLK AMG Sport 9 speed, my mid life crisis solver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know dealers (car) do this, but they cannot legally do this wether you pay the bill or not!

 

Mathew,

 

The legal position is this:-

 

If you request a routine service for your car (or caravan for that matter) the dealer has no legal lien over the car, so in this respect they cannot retain the car if you dispute and refuse to pay the bill either in part or in full.

 

However, if the dealer carries out any repair over & above the "routine" service, with your permision (& that could be just replacing a bulb) then the dealer has a legal lien over the property & you cannot legally remove it without paying the bill first.

 

The simple way to prove that the dealer does not own your car or caravan is to request a copy of the work (repair) order which has your name & address on it, this is sufficient proof to any administrator or receiver that the property is yours and not the dealers

GeorgeB Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

When I said I was normal. .....maybe I exaggerated somewhat!

Skoda Superb MK3 190ps DSG 4X4 estate closely followed by a Swift Challenger 580 Alde

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...