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Spare Wheel Studs For Alloys


cumbrian dave

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I've just purchased a new Lunar Lexon CS and specified Alloy wheels. Having read in an article that the spare will almost certainly be a steel rim and that the studs will be different to the alloy studs I made sure that I was supplied with a set of steel wheel studs - well informed and knowledgeable customer doing the right things! What I have only just noticed is they gave me 4 steel wheel studs and the wheels are 5 stud wheels - Just thought I'd pass on this as a lesson to others.

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I've just purchased a new Lunar Lexon CS and specified Alloy wheels.   Having read in an article that the spare will almost certainly be a steel rim and that the studs will be different to the alloy studs I made sure that I was supplied with a set of steel wheel studs - well informed and knowledgeable customer doing the right things!  What I have only just noticed is they gave me 4 steel wheel studs and the wheels are 5 stud wheels - Just thought I'd pass on this as a lesson to others.

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Dave

 

Thanks for that, I was thinking the same as my Sterling Eccles has alloy wheels. This winter, so far, I have not done anything about raising the van up to protect the tyres. I did by some winter wheels but have not used them as I am not sure they are man enough. Was thinking of buying a couple of steel wheel rims and some cheap tyres just for over winter. I would obviously need steel studs. Good point.

 

David

David - Milton Keynes

Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome for holidays and a Kia Venga for home.

 

Caravan Travels

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Dave

 

Thanks for that, I was thinking the same as my Sterling Eccles has alloy wheels. This winter, so far, I have not done anything about raising the van up to protect the tyres. I did by some winter wheels but have  not used them as I am not sure they are man enough. Was thinking of buying a couple of steel wheel rims and some cheap tyres just for over winter. I would obviously need steel studs. Good point.

 

David

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Dave,

 

Glad to be of help but if you are only going to fit steel wheels while the van is stationary I think the alloy studs would be adequate. It's only that the taper is different between the alloy and steel wheel rims but I feel sure the alloy studs will do the job of keeping the steel rims attached providing the van is not moved - but they might come adrift if someone nicks it though! Just another thought - if you are going to buy steel rims purely for storage over the winter then why bother with tyres at all? Another good anti theft deterent.

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Hi David, Dave is right, if your only going to use the steels whilst laid up there's no need to change the studs, but be aware when you refit the Alloys you need to tourqe them to 85 lbs per ft. George

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Dave and Metz

 

Thanks for the further comments. Spurred on by the orginal post I went out and purchase two steel rims today, more correctly I exchanged the winter wheels I got before Christmas for the rims. Even this did not go smoothly. My handbook says that rims should be 5J but these do not seem to exist! However the chap at the accessory shop ws very helpful he went onto the Swift Service website and established that they were indeed 5. 5J rims, so two were purchased. Just got to find some cheap tyres now. Glad about the studs as that will save some trouble.

 

David

David - Milton Keynes

Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome for holidays and a Kia Venga for home.

 

Caravan Travels

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Having a Ford with a steel rim spare and using the same nuts/studs. ..I think you will find the problems arise when you fit alloy wheels with steel rim nuts as the taper is much shorter and therfore smaller diameter for steel. The other way round you have plenty spare. .a bit unsightly that's all

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Arc Systems are specialist Carver caravan product repairers, committed to providing a comprehensive service as well as spare parts for these popular heaters.

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There is some commonality between studs for alloy and steel wheels.

 

Cars fitted with alloy wheels usually have a steel spare but the same wheel bolts, or nuts, are used for both.

 

Perhaps the question should be asked of Al-Ko!

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I can confirm that alloy studs can be use with steel wheels but Steel studs can not be used with Alloy wheels.

This is due to the increased torque required for Alloy wheels and the alloy studs being of a higher tensile strength.

 

The guru.

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Well got tyres put on my two extra steel rims today and as the rain cleared this afternoon set about changing the wheels. Having fitted the steel rims instead of the alloys the studs looked fine in the way they fitted into the holes in the steel rims. I have not torqued them up as the van is not going anywhere with these rims on. I feel happier now that I will not be leaving the alloys and tyres resting in the same place for 4 months. Might not say that when I have to re-fit them!!!

 

Thanks for everyones help.

 

David

David - Milton Keynes

Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome for holidays and a Kia Venga for home.

 

Caravan Travels

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David as I said there is no problem with using alloy wheel bolts/nuts with steel wheels as essentially they are the same only the length of the taper is different to spread the load better on the softer alloy. However it strikes me this extra taper will now be exposed to the elements while in use with your steel wheels. I would suggest a coating of grease on the tapers to prevent any corrosion building up. .. or this will play havoc with torque setting in the spring.

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Arc Systems are specialist Carver caravan product repairers, committed to providing a comprehensive service as well as spare parts for these popular heaters.

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Gary

 

Thanks for that, if I can still move tomorrow I will do that. !!!

 

David

David - Milton Keynes

Bailey Alliance 66-2 Motorhome for holidays and a Kia Venga for home.

 

Caravan Travels

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Why Roger. .metal to metal contact is never a good idea. ..a correctly torqued bolt/nut will not come loose because of lubrication. ..it's more likely to come loose if stiff to turn through lack off it. ..and the incorrect torque obtained because of that stiffness.

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It's a safety issue NOT to lubricate nuts / bolts on cars. If a lubricated nut / bolt works loose, it'll come off altogether much quicker.

 

I'm sure that car manufacturers warn against lubricating wheel nuts / bolts and I can't see that caravan wheels \are any different in principle.

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I've heard that you shouldn't use grease on wheel studs but copper-slip is ok as it can stop them from siezing up. Something you'll be grateful for on a cold windy night.

 

Incidently, I always carry a proper strong bar and decent socket in the car (and a torque wrench but that seems like overkill). It's amazing that you can spend upwards of twenty grand on a car and they give you tools made out of toffee! For that money they could give you Snap-On. (Even though it might never get used I suppose)

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I've heard that you shouldn't use grease on wheel studs but copper-slip is ok as it can stop them from siezing up. Something you'll be grateful for on a cold windy night.

 

Incidently, I always carry a proper strong bar and decent socket in the car (and a torque wrench but that seems like overkill). It's amazing that you can spend upwards of twenty grand on a car and they give you tools made out of toffee! For that money they could give you Snap-On. (Even though it might never get used I suppose)

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Torque wrench from Lidl - £9. 99. Lives in the 'van to check the torque at every outing and wheel change. (see my posting on "Spare wheel fitting for Europe") Lives in between the seats when in France. After all, it's not an offensive weapon.

 

I agree about not lubricating the wheelstuds/nuts but it's worth doing the hubs with alloys. Trying to kick off a stuck-on alloy from a steel hub is no fun (it's always raining).

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Don't have alloys on van but do take them off the car every few monthsm partly to clean them (they're difficult to clean properly being on the car - too wide) and partly to ensure they don't stick on - have heard of it happening.

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Not withstanding why I gave the advice to Klyne to grease the 'tapers' in the first place, until someone actually tells me why you should not 'lubricate' threads in this situation, I will continue to follow general engineering principle. ..and stick with what I know. ..

Any resistance to turning will reduce the finished torque by the same amount. .but not how tight it is?.

Torque is about 'clamping' and putting a bolt/stud into the correct tension not about being stiff to turn because it is tight, that's a by product of tightening. ..not the intention.

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Arc Systems are specialist Carver caravan product repairers, committed to providing a comprehensive service as well as spare parts for these popular heaters.

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Having read the posts here about the pros and cons of steel and alloy wheels, the point that has NOT been made is that the bolts used on alloy wheels have a collar just under the head, whereas bolts for steel wheels do not. The reason for the collar is to prevent damage to the alloy by the twisting of the bolt as it is tightened, which does not happen as easily to steel wheels, therefore using bolts meant for alloy wheels will leave the collar "proud" of the wheel on steel wheels, as the taper is different. Using steel wheel bolts on alloys, the bolt goes further into the wheel, and risks causing damage to the alloy wheel, thats why you should NEVER use steel wheel bolts on an alloy wheel, but its ok the other way round.

This leads to the question of lubrication, and with alloy wheels, the collar HAS to be free to rotate, in fact stay still while the bolt is rotated when tightening, so lubrication is ESSENTIAL.

It is also essential to make sure the threads are clean on the bolt, and the threads in the hub, into which they go, and that they are tightened to the correct torque, which can only be done on free moving items, so a small amount of lubrication is esential to stop rust forming in the threads.

Motor manufacturers do say to keep the bolts clean, as they know that when changing a wheel, more often than not, the bolts are droopped on the ground while the wheel is being changed, and can pick up dirt and abrasives, which will damage the threads.

Copper Slip is a lubricant, its grease with copper in it, but grease none the less.

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I must agree with Gary 100% and follow good engineering practice. As far as types of wheel bolts for alloys are concerned,I have never come across them with 'ferrules or collars' that is not to say they don't exist. I have had among others,4 Sabbs,2 VWs and 1 Vauxhall all with factory fitted alloys and simple nuts or bolts. The only wheel attachment with anything approaching a washer was a set of Dunlop alloys in 1971 which had sleeve nuts with captive washers. If manufacturers had stuck with wheel nuts instead of bolts,there are a miriad of lock nuts out there which could be used to stop anything coming loose,or you could always drill and wire lock your wheel bolts in the time honoured aircraft method. Personally having owned cars and worked in engineering since 1961 I shall continue to clean and lubricate threads and use a torque wrench,and no, nothing has fallen apart yet. :)

Frank

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