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Position Of Jockey Wheel

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What difference does the position of the jockey wheel make in terms of engineering dynamics?

 

Mike

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I don't know but--- I don't like it going through the "A" frame. .

 

Why ? -- because

 

It is difficult to ensure that it is fully "up" without laying on the floor to look.

It has a tendency to foul the brake mechanism

It does not allow for easy removal.

When on the side of the "A" frame the bracket could be used for several different things -- ie -- TV Ariel - washing line pole. etc

 

But I think it is more to do with the plastic cover that fits over the A frame more than any thing. .

 

I am sure that it cant be anything to do with "engineering" etc. .

Maurice

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If we're talking about moving the jockey wheel inside the A-frame, it's a case of "style" over common sense - but that has driven many changes on UK caravans in recent years.

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. ......

 

It does not allow for easy removal.

When on the side of the "A" frame the bracket could be used for several different things -- ie -- TV Ariel - washing line pole. etc

 

. ......

 

I'm sorry to disagree strongly with you, but my 20 years of 'vanning tells me differently . .......

 

This implies that you are removing the jockey wheel whilst on site, something which I believe should NOT be done or condoned. The corner steadies are just that . . steadies . . the weight of the van MUST be taken by the jockey wheel and NOT by the steadies.

 

There is no way the steadies are designed to take the weight of the van and the occupants

 

IMHO this is probably WHY the makers have moved the jockey wheel . .. to try and prevent such occurances

 

Just my 2. 7p's worth (inc VAT) :)

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Steadies are there to steady, the axle takes the weight. A caravan's noseweight is 4-7% of it's total weight - removing the jockey wheel and using two front steadies means a bit more than 2-3. 5% each.

 

Many caravanners have been removing the jockey wheel on site, when necessary, without any problem for long enough to disprove Entwood's assertion.

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Steadies are there to steady, the axle takes the weight. A caravan's noseweight is 4-7% of it's total weight - removing the jockey wheel and using two front steadies means a bit more than 2-3. 5% each.

 

Many caravanners have been removing the jockey wheel on site, when necessary, without any problem for long enough to disprove Entwood's assertion.

 

 

That would be absolutely brilliantly true . ... if no-one ever sat in the van !!! . . as the majority of vans I have ever seen have the seats at the front . . and most vans have 2 adults . ... may I politely suggest that an extra . .. shall we say 9 stone for the lady and 12 stone for the gent ? . ... thats 21 stone = about 135 Kilos extra. ... as most nose weights are around 75 Kgs . . the steadies are now supporting close on 200 Kilos . .. then if children/visitors/slightly larger folk are taken into account . .....what does it go up to ?

 

I have seen vans with the nosewheeels removed . ... by far the very small minority . .. and I would hate to think what stresses theyare putting on the chassis/floor/steadies.

 

In all the literature I have ever seen/read ( and just checked both Swift handbook and CC site) the implication of the instructions is that the nosewhell stays down . . although I will admit it is not explicitly stated.

 

I would be very interested in Swifts engineering input, as this is not an "assertion" but an "opinion" . .. :)

 

Just my 2. 7 p's worth (inc VAT) :)

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That would be absolutely brilliantly true . ... if no-one ever sat in the van !!! . . as the majority of vans I have ever seen have the seats at the front . . and most vans have 2 adults . ... may I politely suggest that an extra . .. shall we say 9 stone for the lady and 12 stone for the gent ? . ... thats 21 stone = about 135 Kilos extra. ... as most nose weights are around 75 Kgs . . the steadies are now supporting close on 200 Kilos . .. then if children/visitors/slightly larger folk are taken into account . .....what does it go up to ?

 

I have seen vans with the nosewheeels removed . ... by far the very small minority . .. and I would hate to think what stresses theyare putting on the chassis/floor/steadies.

 

In all the literature I have ever seen/read ( and just checked both Swift handbook and CC site) the implication of the instructions is that the nosewhell stays down . . although I will admit it is not explicitly stated.

 

I would be very interested in Swifts engineering input, as this is not an "assertion" but an "opinion" . .. :)

 

Just my 2. 7 p's worth (inc VAT) :)

 

Hi Entwood

 

Reasonable guesses for 85% weight for me at least :blink: up front, surely as the steadies are between axle and

jockey it is still the steadies carrying the weight so the jockey wheel doesn't need to be down or do you not use

front steadies?

If so that means all the weight you have quoted is pivoting around centre mounted jockey and really twisting the

whole front body! - remind me to check your van for delamination before I buy it. ..

 

neil (my 2. 35p @ British std VAT ;) )

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Hi Entwood

 

Reasonable guesses for 85% weight for me at least :blink: up front, surely as the steadies are between axle and

jockey it is still the steadies carrying the weight so the jockey wheel doesn't need to be down or do you not use

front steadies?

If so that means all the weight you have quoted is pivoting around centre mounted jockey and really twisting the

whole front body! - remind me to check your van for delamination before I buy it. ..

 

neil (my 2. 35p @ British std VAT ;) )

 

Where did I say or imply that ?? I believe I said

 

The corner steadies are just that . . steadies . . the weight of the van MUST be taken by the jockey wheel and NOT by the steadies.

 

There is no way the steadies are designed to take the weight of the van and the occupants

 

:)

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Guest Roving Rangies

I have a center inside jockey wheel which to be honest is a pain in the a**e!! for years my caravans have had side ones, I say ones, as we added an extra bracket on the other side to take ariels etc! But OH NO! ours is in the middle and if its not dead straight it fouls the chassis and you have to resite the caravan each time, or it catches the brake or even worse. ......... it catches the chassis frame itself!! Its RUBBISH!!!

We have to move the caravan so rear heavy due to the jockey wheel, its a pain!!

 

I suppose I could take the pnuematic tyre and wheel off and put a solid one on, but then the diameter and foot print would be so small the caravan would not move it would just dig in.

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That would be absolutely brilliantly true . ... if no-one ever sat in the van !!! . . as the majority of vans I have ever seen have the seats at the front . . and most vans have 2 adults . ... may I politely suggest that an extra . .. shall we say 9 stone for the lady and 12 stone for the gent ? . ... thats 21 stone = about 135 Kilos extra. ... as most nose weights are around 75 Kgs . . the steadies are now supporting close on 200 Kilos . .. then if children/visitors/slightly larger folk are taken into account . .....what does it go up to ?

 

I have seen vans with the nosewheeels removed . ... by far the very small minority . .. and I would hate to think what stresses theyare putting on the chassis/floor/steadies.

 

In all the literature I have ever seen/read ( and just checked both Swift handbook and CC site) the implication of the instructions is that the nosewhell stays down . . although I will admit it is not explicitly stated.

 

I would be very interested in Swifts engineering input, as this is not an "assertion" but an "opinion" . .. :)

 

Just my 2. 7 p's worth (inc VAT) :)

The rear corner steadies have to cope if there's seats at the back of the van, however many heavy people are sitting there - the reality is that all the weight on the caravan floor is transferred to the caravan chassis, which is capable of transferring all the end loads into the centre axle for transfer onto the wheels.

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My current jockey-wheel is in the middle of the A frame and I don't like i for several reasons, including not being able to retract the (pneumatic) wheel high enough for my liking and nor can the front of the van be lowered as much as it can with a side mounted affair.

 

BUT, it's an Alko chassis so pound to a penny the mounting holes will be there for a side-mounted assembly. My van's in storage - anyone else able to have a peek under the plastic A frame shrouding and confirm ???

 

Hmmmm . .. ??

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Hi

 

I've got to agree, it's a side jockey wheel for me.

 

If I had a choice between 2 caravans and one had a centre jockey wheel the caravan would need to be something special for me to buy it.

 

Lunar

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I am sorry to say that I cannot agree with ANY of Entwoods statement's -- even though he qualified his expertise by being a caravaner of 20 years -- OK I am a caravaner of 40 years -- does that make my opinions any better -- I don't think so. .

 

All I can say is from practical experience over the years that I think the positioning of the JW into the centre of the A frame has been a retrograde step. . It has nothing to do with engineering but asthetics -- of making the plastic moulding that goes over the "A" frame "look nice." --- Remember when we didn't have this moulding ??

 

Roving Rangies comments summed up my feelings exactly -- pain the the as**

especially if you have a HD pneumatic tyred wheel --- the space for "stowing" at the fully retracted hight is very tight and needs to be positioned very carefully. . so as not to foul any thing.

 

Also you cannot lower the front down as far with the JW wheel in the centre -- sometimes required on sloping sites.

 

My point about the fitting off TV Ariel's and washing lines was brought out again by Roving Rangies comments -- in that caravaner's will fit a second bracket on the opposite side -- or even one that clamps onto the JW itself. . which cannot be done if the JW is in the centre. .

 

And subfiver no the holes do not exist. .. in my 2006 chassis (just been and looked)

 

Lunars coment

If I had a choice between 2 caravans and one had a centre jockey wheel the caravan would need to be something special for me to buy it.
is a good one.

 

So I am still of the opinion that the JW in the centre is a bad idea (after 40 years of caravaning)

 

I wonder if Swifts are reading this ???

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Where did I say or imply that ?? I believe I said

 

 

QUOTE

The corner steadies are just that . . steadies . . the weight of the van MUST be taken by the jockey wheel

and NOT by the steadies.

 

There is no way the steadies are designed to take the weight of the van and the occupants

 

And what is the case on the end without a jockey wheel, are all rear dinettes about to collapse?

 

neil

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For me - no preference! Towed for years with side JW on 'builders' trailers and now with centre JW on 'van.

 

I have no difficulty with checking the JW and have not had a problem with it fouling anything.

 

I just think it looks so much neater centrally mounted and with it fully retracted I can get the hitch almost to the ground for those sloping sites - or as the present case - to raise the rear to allow me to patch the lower rear corner of the back panel without having to become a Houdini.

 

PS Patch required due the fact that concrete bollards are stronger than fibreglass :wub:

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And subfiver no the holes do not exist. .. in my 2006 chassis (just been and looked
Oh, ***** . .. :angry:

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My current van has a jockey wheel that goes through the centre of the A frame and I have a pneumatic tyre on the wheel. Personally I can't see any problem with the set up. In fact there are some advantages like not hitting your leg on the protruding jockey wheel mounting when its on the side of the A frame. Its also central to the van so surely this must aid weight distribution and possibly help with manoeuvrability.

 

David

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Someone said . .. "the weight of the van MUST be taken by the jockey wheel and NOT by the steadies" but the specs for Alko jockey wheel assys all say something along the lines of : "Zinc. Plated 48 mm Dia. tube with steel wheel. 150 Kg Static nose load, 90 Kg Dynamic nose load." Make of that what you will . ..

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Someone said . .. "the weight of the van MUST be taken by the jockey wheel and NOT by the steadies" but the specs for Alko jockey wheel assys all say something along the lines of : "Zinc. Plated 48 mm Dia. tube with steel wheel. 150 Kg Static nose load, 90 Kg Dynamic nose load." Make of that what you will . ..

 

 

 

Surely someone from the Swift Group, can give us a definitive answer to this old chestnut of a question?

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And what is the case on the end without a jockey wheel, are all rear dinettes about to collapse?

 

neil

 

I doubt it as you will find that the rear steadies are attached to the chassis, while the front ones are attached to the wooden floor.

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we have a council who pile large lumps of tarmac on our roads, the jockey wheel always hit the lump unless you drive the car with a wheel over each lump. I think their idea was to stop the boy racers & it works it rips the pooper scooper's of off the front of them laugh.gif

fortunately my jockey wheel is fastend to the side, so before we go anywhere I take it of & put it in the boot smile.gif . maybe they'll replace the speed bumps with a more conventional type. ...is if laugh.gif

I have it on when on site but as its pneumatic so I cant really see it helping unsure.gif

I also take the jockey wheel off when parked up at home so it can't be used to help nick the car

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And what is the case on the end without a jockey wheel, are all rear dinettes about to collapse?

 

neil

 

I doubt it as you will find that the rear steadies are attached to the chassis, while the front ones are attached to the wooden floor.

 

Hi Vernon

 

Fairly sure my front steadies are on the chassis too - as van is 100 miles away I won't be going to check tho'

Jockey limit is 90Kg I think, so looks like steadies are required too then on the front.

 

neil

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The jockey wheels were moved from being clamped to the outside of the chassis member to inboard of the chassis members with the introduction of the Euro overrun device (basically the Euro overrun has the balanced handbrake and a few other advantages to it). The euro overrun is only available with the inbuilt jockey wheel.

 

I have spoken to al-ko today regarding the corner staedy debate, they confirmed that the jockey wheel can be removed with the corner steadies down without any concern. As the axle is designed to carry the whole load of the vehicle, the corner steadies are rated to around 500kg per steady.

 

However the van must never be jacked up on the steadies and the wheels removed as this will damage the chassis and the body structure.

 

Thanks

Andy - Swift Group Technical

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Guest Roving Rangies
I doubt it as you will find that the rear steadies are attached to the chassis, while the front ones are attached to the wooden floor.

 

 

Gosh? What make of caravan do you have??

 

I have checked and mine are well and truely attached onto the steel chassis!

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The jockey wheels were moved from being clamped to the outside of the chassis member to inboard of the chassis members with the introduction of the Euro overrun device (basically the Euro overrun has the balanced handbrake and a few other advantages to it). The euro overrun is only available with the inbuilt jockey wheel.

 

I have spoken to al-ko today regarding the corner staedy debate, they confirmed that the jockey wheel can be removed with the corner steadies down without any concern. As the axle is designed to carry the whole load of the vehicle, the corner steadies are rated to around 500kg per steady.

 

However the van must never be jacked up on the steadies and the wheels removed as this will damage the chassis and the body structure.

 

Thanks

Andy - Swift Group Technical

 

Many thanks for that information . . it appears I was wrong :(

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