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Possible change of Towcar - issues with Jeep


Cherokee2015
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So today, our car 2015 Jeep Cherokee went for its service and MOT.   Using Kwikfit for the first time instead of Jeep.      No problems with MOT, so far so good! 
 

Until they started the service - tried to undo the sump plug to change the oil only to find it had been welded together, so needs a new sump.    We now find that Jeep are unable to supply a new sump as this model has been discontinued and no parts are available (only 7 years old).  The garage have tried to source one but nothing available anywhere.  They have siphoned off the oil, which despite the car being regularly serviced by Jeep has clearly not been changed for a long time and will issue service and MOT to keep us on the road.   It is my belief that Jeep have known about this problem for a while, probably welded the plug in knowing that there was no replacement!

 

 Our choice is to try and source a second hand one, and struggle to get it fitted (neither Kwikfit or Jeep would do that, or cut our losses and get rid before the next service is due.   Although we’ve loved this car, it has had some problems, mainly electrical.   
 

Although we had intended to keep this car for a few more years, the situation makes me nervous.   Thinking Kuga, Tucson, Sorento type thing although the Vauxhall Grandland looks good on paper.  
 

Appreciate  any thoughts, although we don’t want to rush into a change.    I have to say I hate car shopping almost as much as clothes shopping so not looking forward to it.   Another consideration is leasing - we’ve always bought but considering a change to avoid such instances in the future.  

Janet and Jason xxx
Jeep Cherokee Limited 2. 0CRD (2015) towing a 2016 Swift Challenger 530 Alde

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What engine is it? If it’s petrol (as used in the US versions) try US Automotive in Bedfordshire. They bring in parts from the US regularly and are very reliable.

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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9 minutes ago, GaryB1969 said:

What engine is it? If it’s petrol (as used in the US versions) try US Automotive in Bedfordshire. They bring in parts from the US regularly and are very reliable.

2.0l diesel.   Still can’t believe you can’t get parts for a 7 year old car!   
 

our other choice was whole new engine - would rather pit the money to a new car 🤔

Janet and Jason xxx
Jeep Cherokee Limited 2. 0CRD (2015) towing a 2016 Swift Challenger 530 Alde

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I wouldn't worry too much about the sump plug.  Most garages nowadays just suck out the oil anyway. We changed from a five year old  Qashqai to a new seat ateca recently.

I removed the plug to drain the oil in the Qashqai  and it was obvious that the plug had never been touched and that I was the first person to remove  the under engine cover,  and it had full main dealer service history.

Seems to be the modern way

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Welded shut sounds a bit strange. I believe its an aluminium sump and presumably a steel plug, which if never removed by main dealer, has corroded in the threads (dissimilar metals corrode).

 

I would have thought that careful use of WD40 or similar and CAREFUL use of a socket set would eventually free it, but as the oil appears to have been changed, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

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23 minutes ago, Cherokee2015 said:

2.0l diesel.   Still can’t believe you can’t get parts for a 7 year old car!   
 

our other choice was whole new engine - would rather pit the money to a new car 🤔


Might be worth seeing what other cars it was fitted to in case the sump is the same? I don’t think the Diesel engine was Jeep only?

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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I think this is or was a Mercedes engine so have a look there

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If the sump is aluminium, it would probably help if the engine is fully up to temperature, then try removing it.

 

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37 minutes ago, Jezzerb said:

I think this is or was a Mercedes engine so have a look there


A quick Google search points to Fiat but I guess the sump could be Jeep specific if all the Fiat applications were FWD. worth checking though. 

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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If you can find a good enough mechanic this can be dealt with, up to drilling out the old sump plug and welding, drilling and retapping the hole.

 

I don't want to throw disparaging remarks around about Kwickfit mechanics but I would seek a second opinion before taking what they say as gospel.

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I agree with ChertseyMike-it can't be that hard a job. And yes if all else fails it's as you say Gary; most likely a Fiat VMM diesel.

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2 minutes ago, ChertseyMike said:

If you can find a good enough mechanic this can be dealt with, up to drilling out the old sump plug and welding, drilling and retapping the hole.

 

I don't want to throw disparaging remarks around about Kwickfit mechanics but I would seek a second opinion before taking what they say as gospel.

Funnily enough I thought that about Jeep!    The people at KF have been more than helpful, combined with those from Jeep.   Between them, they have tried to find a solution - even the people at Jeep are shocked that parts are not available for a 6 year old car.      I will investigate a mechanic, but it is a minefield of who to trust.    
 

Incidentally, neither garage have recommended changing the car, that’s just us 🤔

Janet and Jason xxx
Jeep Cherokee Limited 2. 0CRD (2015) towing a 2016 Swift Challenger 530 Alde

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9 hours ago, Jezzerb said:

I agree with ChertseyMike-it can't be that hard a job. And yes if all else fails it's as you say Gary; most likely a Fiat VMM diesel.

 

The 2.8 Cherokee was Fiat VMM. Jeep then used a 2.0PD TDi from VW in the Patriot/Compass but with the move to EU5 they started to fit 2.0's from Mercedes.

Yeti 2.0TDi EU6 150 DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Fabia TSi DSG, Swift Challenger.

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I asked No2 son with the garage about this and he said, without knowing which specific engine it was that sump removal can be a bit of a faff and involved but certainly not that difficult.

 

Is the sump alloy or steel and have you seen or did they show you a photo of the weld, is it actually a weld or has such as chemical metal  been used ?

 

The reason he asked is that though it can be possible but difficult due to contamination to MIG weld a steel sump in situ, it would be impossible to TIG weld an alloy sump in situ due to the weld site having to be scrupulously clean, which if alloy and welded suggests it's been off and if so begs the question of why a proper job, weld, drill and re-tap the hole wasn't done.

 

Presuming you have owned it from new and as you say all the previous services have been carried out by Jeep he suggests that you contact Jeep and ask them if, in the all the times they have serviced it had they not notice a welded sump plug and if not why.

 

 

 

 

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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Sorry but I don't understand what the real problem is here other than the annoyance of discovering the 'welded' sump plug and lack of feedback re same from your previous service personnel.

As stated previously most oil changes are achieved as yours has been done now by syphoning so not being able to remove the sump plug isn't really an issue. I wouldn't therefore worry too much about addressing this problem by looking for a replacement sump or getting the plug sorted some other way.

If the Jeep is otherwise OK I would put this issue out of your mind and continue to use it until replacing when you feel the need in due course. In other words don't let this sump plug issue force you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise have done. In itself it's not really a problem and certainly not worth spending money on to resolve and there is no reason you can't get several more years use out of it as you intended.

 

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

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46 minutes ago, KnausCol said:

Sorry but I don't understand what the real problem is here other than the annoyance of discovering the 'welded' sump plug and lack of feedback re same from your previous service personnel.

As stated previously most oil changes are achieved as yours has been done now by syphoning so not being able to remove the sump plug isn't really an issue. I wouldn't therefore worry too much about addressing this problem by looking for a replacement sump or getting the plug sorted some other way.

If the Jeep is otherwise OK I would put this issue out of your mind and continue to use it until replacing when you feel the need in due course. In other words don't let this sump plug issue force you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise have done. In itself it's not really a problem and certainly not worth spending money on to resolve and there is no reason you can't get several more years use out of it as you intended.

 

:Plus1:

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50 minutes ago, KnausCol said:

Sorry but I don't understand what the real problem is here other than the annoyance of discovering the 'welded' sump plug and lack of feedback re same from your previous service personnel.

As stated previously most oil changes are achieved as yours has been done now by syphoning so not being able to remove the sump plug isn't really an issue. I wouldn't therefore worry too much about addressing this problem by looking for a replacement sump or getting the plug sorted some other way.

If the Jeep is otherwise OK I would put this issue out of your mind and continue to use it until replacing when you feel the need in due course. In other words don't let this sump plug issue force you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise have done. In itself it's not really a problem and certainly not worth spending money on to resolve and there is no reason you can't get several more years use out of it as you intended.

 

 

True words.  The secondary issue is that swapping the sump could well cause other issues that aren't currently there, such as oil leaks.

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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2 minutes ago, GaryB1969 said:

 

True words.  The secondary issue is that swapping the sump could well cause other issues that aren't currently there, such as oil leaks.

Only if done by an incompetent garage / mechanic though !!

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, KnausCol said:

Sorry but I don't understand what the real problem is here other than the annoyance of discovering the 'welded' sump plug and lack of feedback re same from your previous service personnel.

As stated previously most oil changes are achieved as yours has been done now by syphoning so not being able to remove the sump plug isn't really an issue. I wouldn't therefore worry too much about addressing this problem by looking for a replacement sump or getting the plug sorted some other way.

If the Jeep is otherwise OK I would put this issue out of your mind and continue to use it until replacing when you feel the need in due course. In other words don't let this sump plug issue force you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise have done. In itself it's not really a problem and certainly not worth spending money on to resolve and there is no reason you can't get several more years use out of it as you intended.

 

It's not something I'd worry about.

I owned a Passat for 12 years and never removed the sump plug,  just sucked out the oil via the dipstick tube. Oil was changed every 6000 mls.

A lot of garages nowadays use that method - much quicker and no need to have the car raised on a ramp.

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58 minutes ago, macquatic said:

It's not something I'd worry about.

I owned a Passat for 12 years and never removed the sump plug,  just sucked out the oil via the dipstick tube. Oil was changed every 6000 mls.

A lot of garages nowadays use that method - much quicker and no need to have the car raised on a ramp.

 

Honestly, I completely understand why a garage would do that but I also think it's a terrible idea. Any "bits" in the oil will sink to the bottom through gravity, sucking this up from the bottom is unlikely to be nearly as effective. Sure, you start the car and get the oil hot but it's unlikely that all of the bits (say heavy metal shavings from bearings) would end up back in suspension.

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@ChertseyMike you're just old fashioned! Like me.

I don't mind a suck out for an interim change, especially with extended oil change regimes, but its a drop out for me on my cars.

My BMW is still in the Dealer for servicing and I'd wager that the sump bung has never been out (don't do the mileage for an interim change on that, just the straight 2 years...and I don't do short runs in it).

For a Dealer workshop, a pump has many advantages, less chance of a burn or spill with associated H&S issues etc.

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I remember doing oil changes on my (tired) Mini as a teenager and the magnetic sump bung looked like a Christmas tree made from iron filings as I withdrew it from the sump.

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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57 minutes ago, GaryB1969 said:

I remember doing oil changes on my (tired) Mini as a teenager and the magnetic sump bung looked like a Christmas tree made from iron filings as I withdrew it from the sump.

 

Mine did that. It was the gearbox!

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Wasn’t sucking the oil out rather than properly draining it one of the reasons Ford had problems with the 1.6 diesel in the focus.

I know it was fitted to other cars too but I remember reading somewhere that the issues in the Fords were costing them a lot of money and advised dealers to always drain the oil properly by removing the sump plug at service.

61 Santa Fe & 2011 Bailey Olympus 624

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