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Bailey Pheonix+ 440 2022 empty noseweight.


ceebeeuk
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Just ordered a new Pheonix+ 440 2022  but the dealer was not sure of the noseweight when empty. Reading this forum someone mentioned it was on the heavy side in Pheonix's, to take account of the storage under the fixed bed. Anyone any idea of what it is. Thanks in advance.

Edited by ceebeeuk
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My 644 is quite light on the noseweight so ive transferred my under bed spare wheel to the front nearside locker, take it you will have a noseweight gauge when you collect it 

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If I were you, I'd take some weighty items - awning for example - and adjust when you pick it up. The only real way to tell is to put it on the scales.

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Wait until you get it! There is a very large (1000 members) Bailey Phoenix group on FB that would be of much more help!

2019 Bailey Platinum (640) Phoenix from Chipping Sodbury caravans, towed by our  2017 my Discovery Sport!

 

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3 hours ago, SilverSurfer said:

My 644 is quite light on the noseweight so ive transferred my under bed spare wheel to the front nearside locker, take it you will have a noseweight gauge when you collect it 

Thanks for the replies everyone.  When you say quite light SilverSurfer, what weight was that ? 

Edited by ceebeeuk
Uneccesary question.
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I've got a an Alicanto Estoril which is also has a low nose weight when unloaded and needs around 15-20kg of ballast towards the front to get the nose weight to around 85kg which is ideal for my S-Max

 

I use two 10 litre water containers in a plastic storage box (just in case of leaks) to ballast it when I tow it empty. and the awning on the floor at the front when its loaded. (our Cadiz needed the awning on the floor towards the rear to get the correct nose weight).

 

It's a good idea to take a nose weight gauge and something to use as  ballast if you are going to tow it empty to adjust it if necessary

Edited by alicanto grande
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I will be taking a nose weight gauge. I don't have an awning as we tour on the continent a lot, only stopping at each site for two or three days before moving on to the next. I do have two 5 litre water containers ( might buy more ). I think I will have to give Bailey a ring as unladen nose weights for Bailey vans don't seem to exist on the internet, or at dealers.

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generally unladen nose weights aren't quoted for any van because they are virtually irrelevant. 

 

 Very few people tow a completely unladen van so it's the weight and distribution of the contents that determine the nose weight. Just a single battery or gas cylinder is liable to alter it in some way.

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19 hours ago, ceebeeuk said:

Thanks for the replies everyone.  When you say quite light SilverSurfer, what weight was that ? 

No idea,  I loaded the van before taking it away after getting an acceptable noseweight 

I know it was light because of the way I had to load it.

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I can confirm that the Phoenix is heavy on the nose (about 90-95kg on my 640) 

 

It tows very well indeed when empty, much better than when it’s at 75kg!  I towed mine well over 100 miles empty when I picked it up, very stable indeed.

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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23 hours ago, alicanto grande said:

generally unladen nose weights aren't quoted for any van because they are virtually irrelevant. 

 

 Very few people tow a completely unladen van so it's the weight and distribution of the contents that determine the nose weight. Just a single battery or gas cylinder is liable to alter it in some way.

I take the point, but if it starts heavy then it means more weight to the rear, which is undesirable. 

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2 hours ago, Wildwood said:

I take the point, but if it starts heavy then it means more weight to the rear, which is undesirable. 

Putting summat like the awning behind the axles to adjust the noseweight really isn't all that much of a problem, whereas putting 20-30kg at the very rear of the van could be if it turns the van into a seesaw.

 

In the end it all comes down to a bit of common sense when loading , although I do recognise that some vans can be harder to adjust than others depending on the layout and how much stuff you are carrying.

 

I also find that towing an empty van, even with the optimum noesweight can be a bit lively if the the suspension isn't loaded a bit - all my vans have felt much more comfortable with a bit of payload rather than totally empty.

Edited by alicanto grande
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If you have the weight just behind the axle it should not be a problem. We only have a small porch awning and often do not take that so it is probably not a viable route for us. It is better if the caravan has a far better balance from the beginning, although with Bailey you do get the gas partway down and the battery just behind the axle, so you are not putting weight at the front to the same extent as with other makes. 

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Empty noseweights used to be contained in brochure spec. lists way back, but fell out of use. Partially because very few vans of the same layout actually matched the published weights due to inherent manufacturing tolerances and because once you load anything on board the weight can vary as the van pivots somewhat on its axle. To keep within the silly low payloads available there is rarely enough spare available for stuff to be shipped using the van floor, so the weight balance tends to mean shifting stuff about that's in the the storage provided.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Previously we had the Unicorn Valencia, same layout and stored the awning under the bed close to the axle and nose weight was good but we did have to be careful about the items stored under the front seats.

 

When you get the new Phoenix+ you'll just have to try it, similar to Mr Plodd we now have the Pheonix 640 but the + model similar to yours. This is very different to the Valencia and I've not been able to store much under our bed as its further at the back and makes the nose weight too lite

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