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Don't get a flat battery on a Tesla as James May found out with his.


Silversurf
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Interesting aspect of a Tesla battery being flat even though connected the charger, as James May found out with his.

 

It could be a bit of fun in a long stay car park, especial an underground or multi-story one.

 

I also had to smile at his comments on the remote batteries .

 

 

Edited by Silversurf
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Well that's really poor design.  How hard would it have been  for tesla to make it so the 12v battery is topped up by the mains plug even after the main battery is full. 

 

And then to make the 12v battery so hard to actually get at! I mean if that's like standard 12v car batteries it'll need changing at some point. I've always presumed that's why car manufacturers make them one of the most accessible parts. 

 

I could use several very rude words to describe what I already think of Elon Musk. I'd never buy anything from him. Here's an extra reason not to buy a tesla.

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Whilst disappointing for a Tesla, I think it's probably par for any car manufacturer. There are many cars where changing headlight or other lamps is just stupidly difficult, for example.

Personally, I welcome the day when fixability is priority over performance/aesthetics. Instead we get adverts for "Sport" editions of cars that are going nowhere near motorsport, more focus on 0-60 performance none of us should need, and a pile of gadgetry ready to go wrong.

Can you tell I'm a 1.6L, 60mpg-when-not-towing Honda CRV driver? :-)

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I shudder to think what similiar design foul-ups there may be in othe Musk inspired technology, like SpaceX for example.

I'm in tune with Ironeddie - I would never buy any product from this man, who has the biggest ego on the planet.

Edited by OWOMW
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At least we as caravanners (mainly) would never have such an issue as we can charge through the towing connection.

 

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2 hours ago, Jacobite said:

I welcome the day when fixability is priority over performance/aesthetics.

That will never come, cars are designed to be assembled quickly, get them off the line, reduced build costs, introducing ' fixability ' with easier access could possibly be done, but at what cost to the end product.

 

That it takes six hours and £1,000 worth of tools many, specialised  to change a 75 pence component is no concern of the manufacturer.

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My nephew is on his second Tesla and is happy with it so James May's might be a one off although on comparison reports they do seem to do quite badly. 

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2 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

That will never come, cars are designed to be assembled quickly, get them off the line, reduced build costs, introducing ' fixability ' with easier access could possibly be done, but at what cost to the end product.

 

That it takes six hours and £1,000 worth of tools many, specialised  to change a 75 pence component is no concern of the manufacturer.

 

That surely cannot be true as a maxim for car makers when the costs for service and repair during the early years are down to them through warranty arrangements?  I accept, of course, that significant 'slip-ups' will occur?

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It's simply no different to an ICE vehicle;  don't use the car the 12v battery goes flat-it really is a non issue and just another headline banner for the EV bashers to jump on to-most people using the car most of the time wont' have this and it clearly says there's a manual overide-so you can still get in-rediculous press EV bashing. Again. That said it isn't beyond the realms to design 12 v battery charging in perhaps in the future. We as caravanners know only too well the perils of not looking after your 12v battery!

Edited by Jezzerb
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I decided Tesla wasn't for me when I saw a review and the touch screen had to be used just to put the wipers on.

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46 minutes ago, Jezzerb said:

It's simply no different to an ICE vehicle;  don't use the car the 12v battery goes flat-it really is a non issue and just another headline banner for the EV bashers to jump on to-most people using the car most of the time wont' have this and it clearly says there's a manual overide-so you can still get in-rediculous press EV bashing. Again. That said it isn't beyond the realms to design 12 v battery charging in perhaps in the future. We as caravanners know only too well the perils of not looking after your 12v battery!

Not EV bashing at all, it's pointing out a potential problem for owners, nothing like being pre-warned before the event.

 

There isn't a manual override to the problem of the battery being flat, the override simply gives access to the battery, not a quick process by any means without tools.

 

Once access is gained what then, how is the battery to be charged at the roadside or in a car park with no access to a charger ?

 

When I asked Number 2  son what info he has at his garage he sent me this link.

 

By the way it is just a 12v car battery with all their foibles  and can perform as such including internal failure in an instant, hence the " I only popped into the shop for 5 mins and the battery is flat "

 

https://tesla-info.com/blog/tesla-flat-battery.php

2 hours ago, SamD said:

 

That surely cannot be true as a maxim for car makers when the costs for service and repair during the early years are down to them through warranty arrangements?  I accept, of course, that significant 'slip-ups' will occur?

Early years and warranty accepted, routine service items are in general easily accessible areas and faults and replacement parts are very low on the list.

 

Where the fun starts is when out of warranty and when the owner finds that a simple £7 light bulb replacement entails removal of such as the bumper, bonnet slam panel and ancillary items !

 

My son has many examples of the customers " How much ?" question, answered by taking them into the workshop, pointing the offending item, which can sometimes be touched easily with a finger and pointing out what has to be removed to get at it.

Edited by Silversurf
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Phew. Must be getting cynical! Sorry . You are right of course. 

Edited by Jezzerb
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7 hours ago, Ironeddie said:

And then to make the 12v battery so hard to actually get at! I mean if that's like standard 12v car batteries it'll need changing at some point. I've always presumed that's why car manufacturers make them one of the most accessible parts. 

Try changing the Ford Kuga battery.  Its a garage job, believe me

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32 minutes ago, Babstreefern said:

Try changing the Ford Kuga battery.  Its a garage job, believe me

Well hidden is it? It's the sort of thing I might start factoring in when buying a car.  I still like to service my own  so if the basics like the battery aren't accessible. Maybe I'd buy something else.

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The AA released some data.  And their most common call out was due to a flat 12v battery didn’t mater if it was an ice or EV.  It amounted to approximately 17% of call outs Iirc.     Also running out of fuel 1% of ICE vehicle's and 4% of EV’s.    
The battery for our Touareg is apparently under the front passenger seat and is not a 10 minute job to change.   

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I can't believe it would not have been possible to charge the battery via a "cigarette' socket   On all the vehicles I have owned they have a direct connection to the battery, usually through a 15A fuse.

Alternatively if he had the sense to fit a towbar (after all he loves caravans) through the battery connection on the 13 pin socket :)

 

 

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19 minutes ago, CliveB said:

I can't believe it would not have been possible to charge the battery via a "cigarette' socket   On all the vehicles I have owned they have a direct connection to the battery, usually through a 15A fuse.

Alternatively if he had the sense to fit a towbar (after all he loves caravans) through the battery connection on the 13 pin socket :)

 

 

My  12v power sockets all turn off after about an hour so there's no way I could charge my car through them.

 

Likewise the  caravan socket doesn't stay live continuously although I haven't checked when it shuts off but there's a significant delay for the period after the engine has been shut down., presumably to prevent power being lost during stop/start sequences.

 

Modern cars  with dedicated towing  electrics are a lot different to those of a few years ago or those with an aftermarket "bodging" box to operate the trailer lights etc.

Edited by alicanto grande
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21 minutes ago, CliveB said:

I can't believe it would not have been possible to charge the battery via a "cigarette' socket   On all the vehicles I have owned they have a direct connection to the battery, usually through a 15A fuse.

Alternatively if he had the sense to fit a towbar (after all he loves caravans) through the battery connection on the 13 pin socket :)

 

 

 

So cars about 50/50 on the aux socket being supplied via a switched or perment live - not sure which camp the tesla falls into but it cant be a given

Towabar elctrics are via either a voltage sensing or alternator switched relay therefore pluging in to the towbar electrics will have zero effect

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22 minutes ago, AndyPoole said:

 

So cars about 50/50 on the aux socket being supplied via a switched or perment live - not sure which camp the tesla falls into but it cant be a given

Towabar elctrics are via either a voltage sensing or alternator switched relay therefore pluging in to the towbar electrics will have zero effect

 

The permanat supply is often always live.

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Just now, xtrailman said:

 

The permanat supply is often always live.

not so often nowadays especially on manufacturer fitted electrics, you need to check. Some manufacturers don't even enable the permanent supply so it has to be retrofitted

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Apart from not letting the 12v battery go flat, the lesson from James May's video is - don't leave anything valuable in the front trunk of a Tesla because it can be easily opened.

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40 minutes ago, CliveB said:

I can't believe it would not have been possible to charge the battery via a "cigarette' socket   On all the vehicles I have owned they have a direct connection to the battery, usually through a 15A fuse.

Alternatively if he had the sense to fit a towbar (after all he loves caravans) through the battery connection on the 13 pin socket :)

 

 

So how would you suggest he would access the cig socket, or aux socket, if  fitted inside the Tesla, if he can't get into the car because the 12v battery is flat ?

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11 hours ago, OWOMW said:

Apart from not letting the 12v battery go flat, the lesson from James May's video is - don't leave anything valuable in the front trunk of a Tesla because it can be easily opened.

Tesla are not the only manufacturer that use pull cords to open bonnets/bootlids in the event of battery failure...it might surprise many that Porsche also use this method....:-)

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15 hours ago, alicanto grande said:

not so often nowadays especially on manufacturer fitted electrics, you need to check. Some manufacturers don't even enable the permanent supply so it has to be retrofitted

 

If that were so how come the mover cycles when you plug caravan to car without the ignition on and ergo the engine (not) running? Sorry, but 12V live on pin 9 is always live even if it is fed through the car wiring .

 

I think you will also find that even factory fit towing still always has pin 9 live. Agreed though that many (especially German) manufacturers don't fit pins 10 and 11 (fridge supply) as fridges are not standard in continental (again mainly German) manufactured caravans. I would note however that from what I hear all VAG vehicles for the UK market with factory ordered/fitted towing DO now have the fridge wiring and connection present.

 

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1 hour ago, Woodentop said:

 

If that were so how come the mover cycles when you plug caravan to car without the ignition on and ergo the engine (not) running? Sorry, but 12V live on pin 9 is always live even if it is fed through the car wiring .

I do hope you mean ATC and not mover. 
On my car, pin 9 turns off and stays off until the car “wakes up”

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