Caravan Advertised As 3 Years Younger Than It Is

[Ado C]

We recently purchased a caravan from a private seller that advertised it as three years younger than it is. 
 

We are new to the caravanning world so didn't know how to check the year of manufacture and to be honest, we would never believe that someone would lie about the age.

We only found out when we tried to transfer the registration into our name. The caravan was manufactured three years before what the seller claimed but was first registered
one year earlier. So, the advertised age does not come into play at any point. 

 

Advertised as: 2008

Vin Number: 2005
1st Reg: 2007

What would you do in our situation? 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ado C

[Legal Eagle]

Are you sure you have read the VIN correctly? The 10th character is the model year code. 5=2005.  7=2007.  8=2008.

Unless you can prove the seller knowingly misrepresented the age or that they are a trader masquerading as a private seller there really is little you can do in practical terms. Through a simple Internet search you could have found out how to read the age in a VIN before buying but hindsight is a wonderful thing!

The fact it wasn't registered with CRiS until 2007 instead of in 2005 is odd since dealers normally register them as soon as they are sold to the first owner.

Have you checked that the VIN on the manufacturer's plate is the same as marked on all the windows?

You need to bear in mind that caravan model years run from 1st September to 31st August.

 

You can interpret the VIN on this website.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Legal Eagle

[Ado C]

4 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

Unless you can prove the seller knowingly misrepresented the age or that they are a trader masquerading as a private seller there really is little you can do in practical terms. Through a simple Internet search you could have found out how to read the age in a VIN before buying but hindsight is a wonderful thing!

The fact it wasn't registered with CRiS until 2007 instead of in 2005 is odd since dealers normally register them as soon as they are sold to the first owner.

Have you checked that the VIN on the manufacturer's plate is the same as marked on all the windows?

You can interpret the VIN on this website.

 

Thank you for your reply. I doubt the seller didn't know as they had it registered with CRiS. I have not seen the CRiS documents - do you know if the age of the caravan is included on them? 
 

My personal view is that the caravan was manufactured towards the end of 2005 - imported into the UK  in early 2006 - and sold to the 1st owner in 2007. But even if this was true, the advert was still misleading, and I can't find any reason why the seller would think this was a 2008 model. 
 

I now know how to check the year, and I was even going to inquire at the time of purchase. But I stopped because the seller was so lovely and I didn't want to look like an idiot. I mean, who lies about the age of a caravan? You learn as you go along!

[Legal Eagle]

Your profile shows a Sterling Eccles caravan which would have been UK built by the Swift Group. Where was it imported from?

If you believe the caravan was misrepresented you could try negotiating with the seller to ascertain why and obtain a partial refund to reflect the true age. You can also report it to your local Trading Standards officers.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Legal Eagle

[Ado C]

9 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

Your profile shows a Sterling Eccles caravan which would have been UK built by the Swift Group. Where was it imported from?

If you believe the caravan was misrepresented you could try negotiating with the seller to ascertain why and obtain a partial refund to reflect the true age. You can also report it to your local Trading Standards officers.

 

Thank you for your reply. The profile is wrong - this was the first Caravan we looked at but decided not to go ahead with it. The caravan in question is a Fleetwood. 

[Legal Eagle]

4 minutes ago, Ado C said:

Thank you for your reply. The profile is wrong - this was the first Caravan we looked at but decided not to go ahead with it. The caravan in question is a Fleetwood. 

Fleetwood were also UK built, in Suffolk, but ceased trading in 2009.

[Ado C]

1 minute ago, Legal Eagle said:

Fleetwood were also UK built, in Suffolk, but ceased trading in 2009.

 

I didn't know that but CRiS informed us that this one was imported. I am not sure how they know. 

[Legal Eagle]

1 minute ago, Ado C said:

 

I didn't know that but CRiS informed us that this one was imported. I am not sure how they know. 

https://www.fleetwood-owners-club.co.uk/fleetwood-caravans/by-model/83-sonata-2002-to-2009

 

As I said in my earlier post, you could ask the seller why it was advertised as a 2008 model when the VIN shows it as 2005. You can also contact Trading Standards at your local authority as it is unlawful for any seller, commercial or private, to deliberately misrepresent goods for sale.

[Ado C]

24 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

https://www.fleetwood-owners-club.co.uk/fleetwood-caravans/by-model/83-sonata-2002-to-2009

 

As I said in my earlier post, you could ask the seller why it was advertised as a 2008 model when the VIN shows it as 2005. You can also contact Trading Standards at your local authority as it is unlawful for any seller, commercial or private, to deliberately misrepresent goods for sale.

Thank you for your help.

[ReggiePerrin]

47 minutes ago, Ado C said:

 

I didn't know that but CRiS informed us that this one was imported. I am not sure how they know. 

I believe Fleetwood ended its days in the ownership of Adria and became Adria's UK importer.  
 

The later Fleetwood Sonata range was based on an Adria for example.   It follows perhaps that some Fleetwood badged Adria 'vans were built in Slovenia for the UK market. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by ReggiePerrin

[Ado C]

3 minutes ago, ReggiePerrin said:

I believe Fleetwood ended its days in the ownership of Adria and became Adria's UK importer.  
 

Fleetwood Sonata was based on an Adria for example.   It follows perhaps that some Fleetwood badged Adria 'vans were built in Slovenia for the UK market. 

 

I believe the same. So, I am confident that the caravan was first used in 2007. 

[Lagerorwine]

The wording of the advert is the most important thing, and it would be difficult for the seller to justify the caravan as a 2008 model. Purchased new in 2007 is probably OK, but not 2008.

 

I would provide the evidence to the seller politely, and hope he feels he should have been more honest, and offers a reduction. If he says 'get lost', call trading standards with a copy of the advert and the evidence, and see what they say.

 

Having said all that, the more important thing is - is the caravan dry, well looked after, has been serviced regularly. If that's the case, you are luckier than many newcomers to caravanning, making the predicament you find yourself in much more palatable, in my opinion.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Lagerorwine

[KnausCol]

It's more than annoying to discover that you've been misled and it probably is worth 'discussing' with the vendor though personally I doubt that will bear any worthwhile result.

The thing to remember is that age is only one factor that possibly affects the value of  a caravan or indeed any vehicle. Condition is far, far more important. You accepted the caravan as it was and were happy to pay what ever you did for it. Ask yourself honestly how much difference knowing the real age would have made. This may help you to accept the situation you find yourself in. If you've got a good van at a price that was acceptable, don't stress about it too much.

[Steamdrivenandy]

In June 2013 we purchased a brand new 2012MY caravan that had actually been built in September 2011. It was a model that had been discontinued for the 2013MY, but it was ideal for our purposes and offered at a substantial discount. It was about 21 months old when we collected it. The only problem, after its long sojourn on the dealer's forecourt, were that deep cracks in the tyre treads showed up at the first annual service, by which time it was nearly 3 years old. The tyres were replaced under warranty.  The difference, of course is that we knew what we were getting into.

 

I guess, that if the van was built in Autumn 2005 it would be a 2006MY model and if eventually sold in the UK in 2007, then it could be argued it's only a year out. But that is cutting it fine and is misleading. Do you recall how long the seller said they'd owned the van?

 

Not sure about Adria and CRIS at the time. Adria have been NCC members since before 2009 but whether they were iat the time we're talking about, I don't know. Presumably Fleetwood were but I'm not sure when Adria actually purchased Fleetwood. Certainly, to this day Eriba owners have to register their new vans with CRIS  themselves, there is no automatic registration as occurs with UK built vans. So CRIS will presumably have a record of when the original owner had the van placed on their system. However they've never been known to be swift (sorry pun not intended), so that date may be quite a while after delivery of the van.  

 

One thought. I know from experience with Eriba's that they didn't adopt the internationally accepted format for VIN numbers until much later than UK makers and the international car industry. Eriba VIN's look the same but have different meanings for some of the number positions. It might bear checking somehow with an Adria dealership or even Adria themselves whether they actually followed the agreed format back then. 

[Lagerorwine]

https://www.fleetwood-owners-club.co.uk/fleetwood-gallery/sonata

 

The fleetwood owners club has pictures of seating fabrics etc that may help

Edited September 2, 2021 by Lagerorwine

[Ado C]

On 02/09/2021 at 17:14, Lagerorwine said:

The wording of the advert is the most important thing, and it would be difficult for the seller to justify the caravan as a 2008 model. Purchased new in 2007 is probably OK, but not 2008.

 

I would provide the evidence to the seller politely, and hope he feels he should have been more honest, and offers a reduction. If he says 'get lost', call trading standards with a copy of the advert and the evidence, and see what they say.

 

Having said all that, the more important thing is - is the caravan dry, well looked after, has been serviced regularly. If that's the case, you are luckier than many newcomers to caravanning, making the predicament you find yourself in much more palatable, in my opinion.

Thank you for your advice. 

On 02/09/2021 at 17:24, KnausCol said:

It's more than annoying to discover that you've been misled and it probably is worth 'discussing' with the vendor though personally I doubt that will bear any worthwhile result.

The thing to remember is that age is only one factor that possibly affects the value of  a caravan or indeed any vehicle. Condition is far, far more important. You accepted the caravan as it was and were happy to pay what ever you did for it. Ask yourself honestly how much difference knowing the real age would have made. This may help you to accept the situation you find yourself in. If you've got a good van at a price that was acceptable, don't stress about it too much.

The condition of the caravan is good. However, I would have not been rushing to buy hard we known it was a 2005 model. Also, the ad attracted a lot more attention because of the misleading advert which didn't give us any room for negotiations. Had the advert been correct - the number of enquires would have been much lower. 

On 02/09/2021 at 18:17, Steamdrivenandy said:

In June 2013 we purchased a brand new 2012MY caravan that had actually been built in September 2011. It was a model that had been discontinued for the 2013MY, but it was ideal for our purposes and offered at a substantial discount. It was about 21 months old when we collected it. The only problem, after its long sojourn on the dealer's forecourt, were that deep cracks in the tyre treads showed up at the first annual service, by which time it was nearly 3 years old. The tyres were replaced under warranty.  The difference, of course is that we knew what we were getting into.

 

I guess, that if the van was built in Autumn 2005 it would be a 2006MY model and if eventually sold in the UK in 2007, then it could be argued it's only a year out. But that is cutting it fine and is misleading. Do you recall how long the seller said they'd owned the van?

 

Not sure about Adria and CRiS at the time. Adria have been NCC members since before 2009 but whether they were iat the time we're talking about, I don't know. Presumably Fleetwood were but I'm not sure when Adria actually purchased Fleetwood. Certainly, to this day Eriba owners have to register their new vans with CRiS  themselves, there is no automatic registration as occurs with UK built vans. So CRiS will presumably have a record of when the original owner had the van placed on their system. However they've never been known to be swift (sorry pun not intended), so that date may be quite a while after delivery of the van.  

 

One thought. I know from experience with Eriba's that they didn't adopt the internationally accepted format for VIN numbers until much later than UK makers and the international car industry. Eriba VIN's look the same but have different meanings for some of the number positions. It might bear checking somehow with an Adria dealership or even Adria themselves whether they actually followed the agreed format back then. 

Thank you for your advice. 

On 02/09/2021 at 18:25, Lagerorwine said:

https://www.fleetwood-owners-club.co.uk/fleetwood-gallery/sonata

 

The fleetwood owners club has pictures of seating fabrics etc that may help

I will take a look. Thank you.

[RJ nes]

On 02/09/2021 at 13:18, Ado C said:

We recently purchased a caravan from a private seller that advertised it as three years younger than it is. 
 

We are new to the caravanning world so didn't know how to check the year of manufacture and to be honest, we would never believe that someone would lie about the age.

We only found out when we tried to transfer the registration into our name. The caravan was manufactured three years before what the seller claimed but was first registered
one year earlier. So, the advertised age does not come into play at any point. 

 

Advertised as: 2008

Vin Number: 2005
1st Reg: 2007

What would you do in our situation? 

How have you got on, we are in the same position!

Built 2005,

REG Jan 2006 

Sold as 2007

[Jay]

14 minutes ago, RJ nes said:

How have you got on, we are in the same position!

Built 2005,

REG Jan 2006 

Sold as 2007

No one will know.

Sadly the OP hasn't been back since October

[RJ nes]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

No one will know.

Sadly the OP hasn't been back since October

Thanks jay

[Steamdrivenandy]

 We once purchased  a 2012 Model Year van, built in Autumn 2011 and we bought it in the middle of 2013. So it was just 10 months outside its Model Year but nearly two years on from when it was built.

 

Just recently somebody has been trying to sell an Eriba Touring Pontos on eBay, saying it was a 2015 model and priced accordingly. Unfortunately for them they weren't aware that the Pontos was only made for two seasons, 2007 and 2008. The interior pics confirmed it was a 2008 as that was the only year that Eribas sported a dark wood frame above the roof lockers. Not only that but the van had the profile of a French made Touring and production transferred to Germany in 2010 when Hymer France was closed down. When the Germans restarted production the roof shape was noticeably different and the liveries available were also different. The seller held out for ages, insisting it was 2015 but eventually changed the ad to 2008.

[gtepete]

deleted

Edited April 14, 2023 by gtepete

[Wildwood]

The year it was built may not be the same as the model year. Models change in September and a few are ready and built in August for the launch but these early builds will be sold as the following years model. Ours was built late 2017 but is still a 2018 model. 

Adding another year would be fraud though and could offender liable to prosecution.  You should always check the year against the vin number and any purchase documents. 

[DACS]

If a caravan is about 17 years old then a year or so either way will not have much effect on its value.  With caravans that old condition is far more important than age.

[Steamdrivenandy]

25 minutes ago, DACS said:

If a caravan is about 17 years old then a year or so either way will not have much effect on its value.  With caravans that old condition is far more important than age.

Totally agree, but advertising it incorrectly is still wrong, whatever its condition.

[JAT88]

On 02/09/2021 at 17:14, Lagerorwine said:

The wording of the advert is the most important thing, and it would be difficult for the seller to justify the caravan as a 2008 model. Purchased new in 2007 is probably OK, but not 2008.

 

I would provide the evidence to the seller politely, and hope he feels he should have been more honest, and offers a reduction. If he says 'get lost', call trading standards with a copy of the advert and the evidence, and see what they say.

 

Having said all that, the more important thing is - is the caravan dry, well looked after, has been serviced regularly. If that's the case, you are luckier than many newcomers to caravanning, making the predicament you find yourself in much more palatable, in my opinion.

Hi we have photos of our van being advertised as a 2020 from a dealer and whatsup messages.  We stupidly until recently checked this (having bought from a larger dealer) and discovered its a 2018.  What do we do?