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Having to look at UK heavy weight caravans


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22 minutes ago, Towtug said:

The NCC formula isnt the minimum  its actually more generous than the type approval legal minimum requirement which doesn't include the additional 50kg.

And there are NCC approved caravans out there that don't meet the NCC formula, AFAIK

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3 hours ago, Scarab said:

And there are NCC approved caravans out there that don't meet the NCC formula, AFAIK

 

I don't believe that's true. I've not heard of any NCC approved van that has a Payload that is less than the formula requires. If there is it would be interesting to know which model/s.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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9 hours ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

 

I don't believe that's true. I've not heard of any NCC approved van that has a Payload that is less than the formula requires. If there is it would be interesting to know which model/s.

 

The model I was thinking of was the 2021 Adria Alpina Colorado - I have a pricelist / spec sheet from a local dealer that lists it as MIRO 1838, MTPLM 1900, payload 62kg.  There's an option to upgrade to 2000kg MTPLM. Adria's website implies that 2000kg is the standard MTPLM though, with no option to upgrade further so maybe it's something they fixed prior to sales taking place. 

 

The 2021 Adora Sava figures are a close shave too using the formula @joanieprovided, so much so that the MIRO looks a little suspect to my eyes  - as in it looks like they took the nice round MTPLM figure of 1900kg and subtracted 178kg (the NCC figure) to arrive at the MIRO.  I wonder what the actual unladen weight is....

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A whole 68kg payload, whoopy flaming doo!!!

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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We only ever considered abandoning Swift because of the "ever shrinking in real terms payload" problem - which appears to be an issue shared by all the principal UK manufacturers.

Now we are probably going to order an Inos slide out caravan. Very very expensive, but having spent several hours at the factory being shown every stage of the production process by one of the design team, we are hooked. Even with all the heavyweight options added, with an MTPLM of 2800kg, payload should no longer be a headache.......... :)

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But what will be a headache is what can you tow it with?? (Along with paying for the Inos and the tug!) 

 

Now where did I put that Euro-millions ticket???

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Inos is a nice van. We toured the factory when we were considering going for the Rambler 5th wheeler but in the end I couldn't face having a pick up as my vehicle and I wasn't sure about the layout of the Inos.

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

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The Amarok can tow 3.1 tonnes but the kerbweight is only 2.2 tonnes, now there is a whole new set of figures to discuss!

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12 minutes ago, Stagn8 said:

The Amarok can tow 3.1 tonnes but the kerbweight is only 2.2 tonnes, now there is a whole new set of figures to discuss!

 

Nothing to discuss! 

 

Legally its 100% fine and probably 100% OK for 99.9% of the time. When you reach the 0.01% issue all may still be OK, but it might not be.

 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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11 minutes ago, Stagn8 said:

The Amarok can tow 3.1 tonnes but the kerbweight is only 2.2 tonnes, now there is a whole new set of figures to discuss!

Discovery's and other Green Ovals much the same at circa 2,500kg kerb with a maximum tow load of 3,500kg.

 

I would not tow that weight in long high sided box form but a flat bed low loaded with Hobgoblin and I would give it a shot.

Stay safe - Griff.  :ph34r:

Wheels at the front Green Oval Towing Machine

Wheels at the back Bessacarr 845

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It costs @£150 to bump up the axle/tyres to the next weight up as a factory fit option.

If manufacturers wanted to, they could do it .

300kg should be the minimum acceptable standard.

Edited by Whomer
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3 hours ago, Whomer said:

It costs @£150 to bump up the axle/tyres to the next weight up as a factory fit option.

If manufacturers wanted to, they could do it .

300kg should be the minimum acceptable standard.

 

Just as an example, Hobby ask €398 to raise the MTPLM from 1600kg to 1750kg on their 540KMF and  €891 (with silver alloy wheels) to up it to 2000kg, or €1020 if you want black alloy wheels, so there's a good profit margin there for the taking. Surely that would be a lucrative opportunity for UK manufacturers, too. I've never understood why they don't take advantage of it.

Edited by Lutz
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16 hours ago, Griff said:

Discovery's and other Green Ovals much the same at circa 2,500kg kerb with a maximum tow load of 3,500kg.

 

I would not tow that weight in long high sided box form but a flat bed low loaded with Hobgoblin and I would give it a shot.

My Cayenne only weighs 2200kg but has the same max towing capacity of 3500kg. It tows my 2000kg van with consummate ease and stability but I'd be interested to experience how it would fair with 3500kg behind.. 

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

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The other thing is loaded that is 6 tonne train weight, need a fair amount of power to cope with that. I appreciate that different cars have different power outputs but the Amarok starts at 161bhp, goes up to 245 bhp but that still doesn’t seem a lot. Only mentioning the Amarok as it is what they show with their 3600 kg fifth wheel. The Inos is shown with a Rangerover (I think Velar) with a max kerbweight just over 2 tonnes, but you can get some serious (540bhp)  power with those. 

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OK. It's been a busy couple of days for us.

We are spanning several categories, so I guess "Caravan Chat" is still the best place for this.

In no particular order:

Just got back from our trip to the Fifth Wheel Company factory. Our visit finally spanned two days.

Seriously nice people with a refreshing grasp of customer service.

Anyway; we had been prepared to splash out (aka bankrupt ourselves) on the very imposing 5th wheel Celtic Rambler - which often weighs in at close to 3500kg total, with a weight at the special king pin hitch in the pick up rear bed of some 500kg. As it happens we fell in love with the (slightly) more conventional Inos caravan, but that's not relevant right now.

 

What we did pick up on (;)) was the fleet of pick ups they use to move the demo units (including the monsters) around the country to various shows. As far as we could tell the car park was downtown "Navaraville". These twin turbo 2.3 litre oil burning Nissans clearly have what it takes - in practice rather than just in the brochure.

We have been towing our 1750kg Swift Elegance 560 with our AWD Ford Kuga, which has a towing limit of 2100kg and it has coped very well indeed (Powershift and all), but would not be able to get anywhere near the heavyweights we have been considering.

The 5th wheel units (hitch type rather than the company) need hefty pick ups. The Inos is not quite as fussy as long as the towing capacity is way up there. So green oval, Touareg and the like.

 

We looked at newish (gasped at the prices so then...), not so newish and even some older large SUV's capable of lugging big loads. Then we went for a drive in a Navara - well, why not. If it's good enough for the them....

It returned almost the same economy as the Kuga on our test drive (it was an auto), had five seats, all the comforts and toys and was actually a pleasure to drive. OK, not Elise territory, but was very comfortable. Had four doors, five seats and if you add a hard top a huge covered load bed. And even as a VAT paying retired gentleman the low prices (as in what they are offering rather than list) made the premium (or not so premium) SUV route look rather a waste of our rapidly dwindling money.

 

If we do sign on the dotted line for an Inos it will be pushing 2400kg with all the "once in a lifetime and who needs life savings anyway?" extras, so reducing the payload to a mere 400kg before hitting its 2800kg ceiling - and we will be towing it with a Navara.

 

Lots of things there I never thought I would be typing - but you only live once :D

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What a very interesting, and thought provoking post, thank you for taking the time to type it.

 

The only purpose that money serves is to make your brief stay on this planet as comfortable, and as enjoyable, as possible. 

 

Get out there, buy your dream machine(s) and enjoy your life!! 

 

My dear mum got it spot on. When she passed away she left just enough money to pay for her (very modest) funeral. She had a glorious last few years spending her money like water on doing exactly what she wanted, I am certain she died a happy person.

 

No pockets in a shroud ;)

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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all looks very nice  and very expensive, I take it you have the necessary  licence to tow it.  Will you be using it all year  as it seems a waste to keep it in storage for too long, do I sound jealous, no, I'm happy with my lot and if that's what makes you happy then go for it.:D

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I like the idea, but not the cost and size of the outfit. Good luck though.

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Thanks for the very kind words.

Hopefully I will be in a position to post some first hand feedback (if our nerve holds!).

 

If we do proceed it will involve another 7hr round trip to finalise exactly what we want (loving the idea of this degree of bespoke design) with a likely delivery in November (that is this November).

Of course one problem that results from having so much choice/input is the challenge of the pair of us agreeing on what we want......:blink:

 

So if you want to see how it goes I guess you'll need to keep an eye on the "Other Models" section.

Actually, there's a thought. Eterniti get a separate section so how about an "Inos" section?

I know of at least one prospective contributor ;)

Problem with a "Fifth Wheel" section would be the inevitable confusion between company and towing format.

 

 

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If you are seriously considering this 5th wheel and a Navara to tow it, I would get your skates on....Nav's are ceasing production soon and are getting like hen's teeth to get hold of a new one and used ones are starting to make silly money (much like caravans). Last month ordered ourselves a new one to be here in September some time.

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On 31/07/2021 at 15:27, Lutz said:

 

Just as an example, Hobby ask €398 to raise the MTPLM from 1600kg to 1750kg on their 540KMF and  €891 (with silver alloy wheels) to up it to 2000kg, or €1020 if you want black alloy wheels, so there's a good profit margin there for the taking. Surely that would be a lucrative opportunity for UK manufacturers, too. I've never understood why they don't take advantage of it.


Germans tend to take far more stuff with them, bikes, awnings, camping furniature, outdoor kitchens, barbecues, toys.
The British seem to treat a caravan as a weekend only TV lounge on wheels.
See the overwhelming desire in British caravans for a large free standing, 4 burner, double oven stove. 
No interest in extracpayload, but offer a 6 burner triple oven and they’d be on to a winner.

Edited by Whomer
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I take it your 5th wheeler will have a 4 oven Aga, hot tub, towed solar array/fresh water bowser, mini nuclear fusion powerplant on standby and a slot in sewage treatment unit.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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41 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

I take it your 5th wheeler will have a 4 oven Aga, hot tub, towed solar array/fresh water bowser, mini nuclear fusion powerplant on standby and a slot in sewage treatment unit.

I'm guessing I am the "your" being referred to.

The Inos we might be buying isn't a 5th wheeler (although it's made by a company of that name).

It's a caravan sitting on a regular AL-KO twin axle chassis rated at 2800kg.

It is 7'6" wide on the road, but yes it grows to 9'6" wide on site.

None of the above would be fitted - although a fusion generator would be nice of course (however I suspect the Gigawatts required to stabilise the containment field on start up might melt the supply bollard).

However - and if this offends avert your eyes now - I am considering fitting a small grey water tank. Why? Here's one scenario. If the forecast suggests monsoon weather during our arrival on site we will lug a little fresh water in the "normal" onboard water tank and I would build in the option to divert grey water to the extra tank. So a bit motorhome-like. So, arrive, hit the self level button and the "expand" button, maybe plug in the hook-up and go in for a cuppa. We would sort out the usual attachments once convenient, including draining the grey water into our Wastemaster. No we wouldn't need to join the queue at the motorhome service point.

 

As I said, nothing is set in stone yet - apart from our tow tug swap. As JungleJim mentioned we were also made aware of the likely shortage of Navaras and have one on order. I never intended to buy new (and this would be our first new car ever) but the newer used examples were only a couple of hundred quid less than a brand new one after discount!! No, I don't understand why if demand is so high they still offered a very generous discount on a new one, but I'm not about to complain.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me I need to discuss where they will build the display case for my extensive "canon balls through the ages" collection............

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1 hour ago, Whomer said:

.
The British seem to treat a caravan as a weekend only TV lounge on wheels.
 

 

Correct!

 

But only because their mobile TV lounges come with a pathetic payload in the first place so they have no option other than to carry two tenths, of three fifths, of sod all in them ! 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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3 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Correct!

 

But only because their mobile TV lounges come with a pathetic payload in the first place so they have no option other than to carry two tenths, of three fifths, of sod all in them ! 

.

oh I dunno, the small Baileys have enough payload to carry a spare tea towel! B)
 

 

 

On 29/07/2021 at 11:10, Mr Plodd said:

A whole 68kg payload, whoopy flaming doo!!!


 

Thats share a toothbrush territory!

 

Edited by Whomer
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