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Lorry drivers hours extended


gtepete
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Morning all, 

 

Just heard a driver say on LBC radio that the Government have relaxed the driving hours......he is working a 70 hour week....over 7 Days....he is concerned this may lead to accidents....in his words , the Government do not want fuel or food shortages, so will do anything to ensure this does not happen... 

 

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/wholesalers/hgv-driver-hours-extended-by-government-in-bid-to-counter-shortage/657765.article

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18 minutes ago, gtepete said:

Morning all, 

 

Just heard a driver say on LBC radio that the Government have relaxed the driving hours......he is working a 70 hour week....over 7 Days....he is concerned this may lead to accidents....in his words , the Government do not want fuel or food shortages, so will do anything to ensure this does not happen... 

 

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/wholesalers/hgv-driver-hours-extended-by-government-in-bid-to-counter-shortage/657765.article


He is very quick to blame it on the government!

 

You don’t think retailer, suppliers, wholesalers and other affected parties like big supermarket chains will not have lobbied the government for this?

 

It’s amusing that the lorry drivers want extended hours when it suits them, but if anyone else suggests it then it’s an accident waiting to happen.

Jaguar E-Pace 180D HSE R Dynamic - 2008 Swift Conqueror 540

 

"Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk"

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It's pretty scary. Lorry drivers already work crazy hours by normal people standards, then a lot of them spend their evenings being kept awake by the fridge lorry next door or a knock of the door from a "lady of the night".

 

Of course the current rules aren't perfect by any stretch but they at least protect drivers from the worst abuses.

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The extension of hours has already been available to hauliers for two weeks and has two weeks left to run.  It amounts to an hour per shift / 9 hours per fortnight and hauliers must notify the DfT before and after taking advantage of the relaxarion.
 

My daily newspaper over the past two weeks has been end to end  full of the carnage being wrought by recently overworked lorry drivers the length and breadth of the land.  I daren't turn TV news on.  

 

Quote

Using the relaxation

Driver safety must not be compromised. Drivers should not be expected to drive while tired – employers remain responsible for the health and safety of their employees and other road users.

The practical implementation of the temporary relaxation should be through agreement between employers and employees and driver representatives.

 

Government Guidance here

 

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13 hours ago, Steven said:


He is very quick to blame it on the government!

 

You don’t think retailer, suppliers, wholesalers and other affected parties like big supermarket chains will not have lobbied the government for this?

 

It’s amusing that the lorry drivers want extended hours when it suits them, but if anyone else suggests it then it’s an accident waiting to happen.

I think you will find that they want a decent hourly rate not more hours, but you will obviously think otherwise.

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13 hours ago, Steven said:

He is very quick to blame it on the government!

Well, the government is changing the rules. Who else to blame if it causes accidents?

 

 

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7 hours ago, Readingblue said:

Well, the government is changing the rules. Who else to blame if it causes accidents?

 

 


Funny old world when people absolve themselves from any form of personal responsibility.

 

The government sets maximum speed limits, yet people either fail to drive to the road conditions, or just simply ignore them and have accidents, I guess that’s the governments fault too!!!

              ****************
 

7 hours ago, Odd days said:

I think you will find that they want a decent hourly rate not more hours, but you will obviously think otherwise.


You mean they want more money than they are currently getting paid, don’t we all???

 

 

Jaguar E-Pace 180D HSE R Dynamic - 2008 Swift Conqueror 540

 

"Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk"

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1 hour ago, Steven said:


Funny old world when people absolve themselves from any form of personal responsibility.

 

The government sets maximum speed limits, yet people either fail to drive to the road conditions, or just simply ignore them and have accidents, I guess that’s the governments fault too!!!

              ****************
 


You mean they want more money than they are currently getting paid, don’t we all???

 

 

Yes but some have had their wage screwed down, but does that mean that they all want to work longer hours. I think you’re still in the Victorian time.

I think it should be asked why hgv wages are creeping up.

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23 hours ago, ChertseyMike said:

It's pretty scary. Lorry drivers already work crazy hours by normal people standards, then a lot of them spend their evenings being kept awake by the fridge lorry next door or a knock of the door from a "lady of the night".

 

Of course the current rules aren't perfect by any stretch but they at least protect drivers from the worst abuses.

 

Lorry drivers do not work “crazy” hours. Theirs is the one industry (other than airline pilots) where working hours are very strictly controlled by law. Each driver has an electronic card that goes into a vehicles tachograph and that records, to the minute, the hours they are driving. If stopped by police/VOSA  that card can be analysed in seconds and any “over hours” instantly identified. The fines are draconian and severe for exceeding their hours. 

 

A hospital doctor however has no legal limitation placed on their working week, which can, and often does, exceed 100+ hours per week. A doctors “error” might cause a single death, a lorry drivers could cause many more !! 

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Some drivers on LBC yesterday were saying that the extra hours were being used up by them having to wait because depots are short of staff to load and unload their trailers. They're not actually getting any extra mileage from the hours. There are cases of driver's having to return full trailers because they'll run out of hours before unloading can begin. Then they have to try again the next day, when they should be delivering another load elsewhere. The knock on effect is substantial. One guy described 50 wagons lined up unused at his depot when there are usually just a couple. That sort of thing can put a haulier out of business as they're paying leasing charges and the wagons aren't earning. And if the haulier goes out of business then it takes the whole fleet off the road, not just the unused vehicles and reduces the industry capacity even more. 

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Truck drivers work crazy hours alright. 9 to 10hrs driving days spread over 15hrs a day with 3am starts & so on. It’s what I worked throughout my working life.  
 

Firms will always pressurise their drivers to do as much as possible & more. It has always been thus.  As mentioned if any job was designed to make it a difficult as possible to start ones working day refreshed & ready to go it is lorry driving. Starting work at all hours of day & night. Having to sleep out on noisy motorway services & so on. 
 

It is no wonder there are accidents & jailing drivers for causing death by careless driving is ridiculous. No wonder they cannot get anybody to do the job. Nobody should have to start work on the morning risking years in jail just for doing their job. 
 

Nobody in their right mind should be a lorry driver these days. 

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One reason nobody would choose it as a career is self driving trucks are just around the corner, and then there will be more drivers then trucks.

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Lorry drivers do not work “crazy” hours. Theirs is the one industry (other than airline pilots) where working hours are very strictly controlled by law. Each driver has an electronic card that goes into a vehicles tachograph and that records, to the minute, the hours they are driving. If stopped by police/VOSA  that card can be analysed in seconds and any “over hours” instantly identified. The fines are draconian and severe for exceeding their hours. 

 

A hospital doctor however has no legal limitation placed on their working week, which can, and often does, exceed 100+ hours per week. A doctors “error” might cause a single death, a lorry drivers could cause many more !! 

I appreciate what you are saying but a lorry driver can be driving for up to 56 hours a week, not including time spent on other work. That to me is crazy, even if its regulated as crazy. Not to mention that when they stop work they might well be hundreds of miles from their own bed, family etc. It's not really "not working" in my book.

 

The junior doctors thing is wrong, and in fact is illegal as doctors should be protected by the European working time directive. However, at worst, at least a doctor can look forward to progressing to a consultant in their mid-30s and are paid somewhat more than minimum wage. A lorry driver might reasonably expect the same or worse until they retire.

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4 hours ago, Steven said:


Funny old world when people absolve themselves from any form of personal responsibility.

 

 

 

 

And some people will bend over backwards to try and make sense of these government failings mostly of their own making. Warnings of a driver shortage was highlighted years ago, brexit being the main concern of hauliers. It's was totally ignored.  So now together with brexit and the pandemic the master plan after the event is let them work more hours. Obviously it only has the potential to kill a few. Not a problem if you fly by helicopter everywhere. 

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1 hour ago, ChertseyMike said:

The junior doctors thing is wrong, and in fact is illegal as doctors should be protected by the European working time directive. However, at worst, at least a doctor can look forward to progressing to a consultant in their mid-30s and are paid somewhat more than minimum wage. A lorry driver might reasonably expect the same or worse until they retire.

The working time directive applies to all. Lorry drivers can switch to being Doctors if they want to.

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15 minutes ago, ChertseyMike said:

a lorry driver can be driving for up to 56 hours a week

Indeed he can but to introduce a little perspective, in the week immediately preceding and the week immediately following a 56 hour driving week, that driver is only permitted to drive for 34 hours (maximum of 90 hours in any two consecutive weeks).

 

 

 

 

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One thing guaranteed on here is a good old biased view from admin on hgv driver and wages.

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2 minutes ago, Odd days said:

One thing guaranteed on here is a good old biased view from admin on hgv driver and wages.

Guaranteed?  Are members of the admin team not permitted to have a view of their own?  Is their view any less valid than the view held by you or me or anybody else?  Aren't all for and against views of something biased regardless of who it is held by?

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ReggiePerrin said:

Guaranteed?  Are members of the admin team not permitted to have a view of their own?  Is their view any less valid than the view held by you or me or anybody else?  Aren't all for and against views of something biased regardless of who it is held by?

 

 

 

 

I think the problem arises when the admin team post quite contentious items (not all but some ) and anyone countering that have their posts removed. Example being the one you are replying too.

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6 hours ago, CraigP2005 said:

And some people will bend over backwards to try and make sense of these government failings mostly of their own making. Warnings of a driver shortage was highlighted years ago, brexit being the main concern of hauliers. It's was totally ignored.  So now together with brexit and the pandemic the master plan after the event is let them work more hours. Obviously it only has the potential to kill a few. Not a problem if you fly by helicopter everywhere. 

+1
 

And "lorry drivers can always switch to being doctors..."    if they can spare years of training following getting the right qualifications to join in the first place. No worries.

 

There's a lot of gaslighting going on, in which we're supposed to be persuaded that it's all anyone's fault but HMG's, and so take the blame for what follows. 

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I know some very happy lorry drivers-depends who you work for and of course what you transport. And they don't seem massively poor either-hides under a parapet here. Add the fact that there is a national shortage and they seem to be able to move jobs fairly easily and are in demand. Not all are complaining and not all are hard done to from what I see. What does annoy me is that they are at the mercy of idiot car drivers-quite often, and terrible traffic jams, plus of course the crazy public who at any hint of an empty shelf cause absolute mayhem by binge buying. There needs to be a ban on news involving any shortage of foods! Or shps need to be far quicker to ration.

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15 minutes ago, Jezzerb said:

. There needs to be a ban on news involving any shortage of foods! Or shps need to be far quicker to ration.

 

Or people just using a bit of savvy and not buying 20 of something they only use one a week of! 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Lets put some of this in real terms.

 

Firstly, I didn't listen to the broadcast, but the driver mentioned is talking rubbish You CANNOT legally work 7 days a week as a HGV driver. You must take at least a 24 hour rest period after no more that 144 hours from when you started your working week (6 days)

 

The increase alluded to is only and increase in the daily driving time (10 hours a day from 9, and can be extended to 11 twice a week instead of 10) all other break and duty time stays the same i.e still no more than 4.5 hours and then a 45 minute break. OR the weekly rest can be changed, currently at least 45 hours which can be reduced to minimum of 24 but if so only every other week and the reduction paid back in full by the end of the 3rd following week. New rules mean you can reduce 2 weeks on the trot but still need paying back by the end of the 3rd week. All of the above has to be appllied for by the haulage company before doing it and reported after the exemption ends.

 

In real terms its not much use to anyone as there are not many jobs in the UK where you max your driving hours each day. My firm hasn't applied for it and even if they did I wouldn't do it, as why is that suddenly deemed safe when the week before we could lose our license if we did those hours??

 

As for the driver shortage, its a many fold problem, not just wages. It's also the hours expected potentially 84 hours a week on duty, the current terms of some contracts (any 5 out of 7 days changing every week), the terms at some firms with expecting you to park overnight in laybys or use trucks with driver facing cameras watching you all shift.

 

From my point of view I am happy with what I earn weekly, but would like to earn the same for less hours. Most weeks I do around 60-65 hours and am away all week, we get paid parking if we want to use it, plus a well equipped truck and a firm thats not in a industry where we have strict delivery slots so are more relaxed and not chased. I knew what I was getting into 25 years ago when I started, and in my mind conditions have improved in some ways  (very little hand ball jobs any more and same with roping and sheeting loads, trucks are easier to drive, but driving standards of all drivers have declined so your still as knackered at the end of the day).  

 

Some driverless trucks will arrive, but not to the extent that some are predicting. We're a small island, and whilst they would be good on trunking runs between big depots at the side of motorways, most deliveries in town and villages will still need a driver to get them there.

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21 hours ago, Odd days said:

One reason nobody would choose it as a career is self driving trucks are just around the corner, and then there will be more drivers then trucks.

 

I doubt that very much - and if so, then there has to be a great improvement to the way in which the vehicle can 'sense' what is in front.

 

I drive a one year old Ford Kuga with top of the range electronics etc yet when I am using cruise control the sensors on the car cause it to brake suddenly or accelerate at times when I would not do so and on occasions I feel it has put me in danger. This is because they seem to have a limited field of view - for example when I am in the outside lane of a dual carriageway passing a lorry as we approach a right hand bend, the car will brake suddenly as the sensor thinks the lorry is coming in front of me, yet it is to my left and I have a clear road ahead. This has now happened on several occasions in the same place on a route that I use regularly. 

 

To add in another idea - why not get a hundred lorries in a line, link them all together, have one driver at the front and call it a train . . . . . . . . . 

.

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