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Phoenix+ 640 - Manufacturing Delays


D-Hill
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Is anyone expected a new Phoenix+ 640  to be delivered and if so has there been any delays?

 

The reason for asking is that our Phoenix+ 640 was delivered in April with a faulty bedroom door, we have been waiting for spare parts and just received an update say there's further delays. I have escalated this issue and challenged Bailey to say that if they are unable to get internal panels & doors I would assume that production of all new 640's has also been delayed? If manufacturing can get the parts why can't Prima Leisure, Bailey AfterCare are blaming Prima and there's no one managing the issues.

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1 hour ago, D-Hill said:

If manufacturing can get the parts why can't Prima Leisure, Bailey AfterCare are blaming Prima and there's no one managing the issues.

 

 

Because they will be keeping any parts they can get hold of to fit into new caravans. The reason being that they can continue to sell new caravans and that keeps their cash flow ticking over.

 

If you were making caravans, and had a shortage of supply of non essential,parts, would you provide spares for caravans already sold, for no financial advantage, or fit them into new caravans in order you can sell them (new caravans that is) 

 

Your Caravan is still clearly usable, so whilst it’s annoying, it’s not exactly critical is it?

(For comparison I have been waiting for a lower runner for the sliding bedroom door in my 640 for 18 months)  

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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As you are probably aware most goods are made up of supplies from all around the world-when that supply chain breaks down for an event such as Covid or the Suez canal blockage everything grinds to a halt.

Recently as an example foam was in short supply so many caravans were made but remained at the manufacturer until it received its foam.

And as MrPlodd explains the manufacturer needs to make their product to stay in business.

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13 minutes ago, charlieboy2608 said:

As you are probably aware most goods are made up of supplies from all around the world-when that supply chain breaks down for an event such as Covid or the Suez canal blockage everything grinds to a halt.

Recently as an example foam was in short supply so many caravans were made but remained at the manufacturer until it received its foam.

And as MrPlodd explains the manufacturer needs to make their product to stay in business.

Good point....

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Its surprising how many supplies can be caught up in just one vessel. I know of a couple of companies who had rear light units on the Evergiven. They still dont have them. They tried to pull forward replacements but then a shortage of containers caused them a further delay. They have 135 stock Vehicles waiting completion between them which will eventually cause them cash flow issues.

Another, cannot manufacture complete axles because of a shortage of bearings, their supplier cannot get the steel.

The slowdown in LCV & HGV production means that MH converters cant get enough despite increasing sales.

There are shortages of all sorts of stuff at the moment.

 

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Haven't been able to get Waitrose own brand paracetamol for 4 weeks in either Newport or Sandbach branches.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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You can't get Bailey caravan parts in either of those stores neither ;-)

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I have various warranty claims on my Bailey which my dealer is unable to attend to due the parts being unavailable. Apparently this is due to either Covid, Brexit, Panama Canal blockage etc. I have also heard that one of my warranty parts has been sitting in their dispatch department for a while but hasn’t been sent out because they are too busy (presumably looking after new customers rather than their existing ones). It’s a very frustrating time for everybody.

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You sure you're not getting your American Continent 'Panama' mixed up with your Middle East 'Suez'?

 

You're right though, we're in the middle of a perfect storm in terms of supply of many things and whilst one of the three events you mention could be an issue, the three together have resulting interdependencies which make their total effect worse than if the three were looked at individually and just added together. This interweaving makes it difficult to identify which particular issue has caused a particular individual problem.

 

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Basically I would give the dealer an ultimatum as you are entitled to the repair within a reasonable period and that is long gone. They should be told this and advised that if it cannot be repaired within say another month that you will require your money back. 

The problem I suppose is the money back option will mean no caravan, so possibly a claim for damages if you cannot use it might be a better option. 

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But if the dealer cannot get his hands on a required part all the threats in the world are not going to get the issue sorted out are they? 

 

I have been waiting for over 12 months for a part for my bedroom door. The door still works it just jumps off the track occasionally, hardly a serious, or safety,  matter.

 

As for asking for his money back due to such a trivial matter is a simply ludicrous suggestion!  

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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I am sure the dealer is just as unhappy with the situation as the OP. I was at our dealers a few days ago, talking to the manager who is responsible for ordering parts and she was tearing her hair out. As she said manufacturers and parts companies simply can't restock, and anything that does arrive is mostly going to new builds. And as she points out the aggrieved owners can't see this and take their ire out on her. We are in unique times, but we still expect everything to be delivered instantly.

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Say you need a piece of caravan furniture. The Italian manufacturer's staff were hard hit by Covid back in the Spring of 2020 and the factory closed down for 3 months. What stock they had was sent out, leaving their stores empty on the resumption of production. 

 

Caravan, motorhome and static makers across Europe are wanting to get on and meet orders for new vans, otherwise they go bust. So you prioritise new model products rather than spares. 

 

The vinyl laminate that covers the piece of furniture, comes from the Far East and their production is interrupted by covid at a later date because the pandemic reached them later. And when they recommence they too prioritise product finishes for new production models, not spares.

 

Then there's a worldwide shortage of container availability which causes delays in itself, but also causes some additional delays because suppliers are unwilling to pay the exorbitant prices being asked for container space and sometimes this knocks on as suppliers need to renegotiate pricing before they'll ship product, making further delays. 

 

Then as an Italian manufacturer you are closely following the effects of Brexit and find your regular hauliers are unwilling to send wagons to the UK and you think there could be issues with consignments to the UK, so you hold off making stuff for that market and concentrate on fulfilling EU back orders.

 

Wind all that lot together and it's a wonder there are any caravans being made at all.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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My Bailey dealer can't get new caravans and for my spares says parts taking 3 months.

 

My Ford dealer can't get new cars either.

Edited by David 38
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15 hours ago, David 38 said:

My Ford dealer can't get new cars either.

Ford are not alone in this.

The availability of semi conductors is effecting most items that contain electronics.

Ford have chosen to focus selling Petrol rather than diesel's because those sales have fallen off a cliff-unless of course you would like a Ranger or Transit .....

Edited by charlieboy2608
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Update no parts delivered and delivery date slipped to 3rd August and no one from Prima or Bailey is managing the problem.

 

Agree with many of the points raised especially the cash-flow but is it acceptable to supply faulty caravans to ensure cash flow and then walk away from the problem?

 

As for the supply chain, Brexit & Covid issues yes they may have contributed to the delays but the panels are manufactured in the UK, there maybe materials from Europe but I’m guessing the manufacturer is prioritising panels for the new Unicorn.

 

I have now requested that the parts are sourced from the production line instead of the supplier, unlikely to change things, and also for Bailey to assist the dealer with the repair. Dealers back log was September when we took delivery in April so I can only guess it’s December January now.

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I doubt that any manufacturer sends out purposely faulty caravans to ensure cashflow, though some faults obviously do get through to delivered product. But in times of scarce resources they will prioritise the generation of cashflow by producing new vans and keeping production operating rather than use their resources to satisfy spare parts supply. They have shareholders and investors to keep in mind as well as customers waiting new vans. Do you risk delaying new van supply and customers going elsewhere or do you supply the parts operation and customers who already have a van. Admittedly the potential risk is that customers with faulty vans may change brand for their next purchase but that's not as real a risk as losing signed orders now. It's the short termism of the sales cycle.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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2 hours ago, D-Hill said:

is it acceptable to supply faulty caravans to ensure cash flow and then walk away from the problem?

No manufacturer wants to build a faulty product-unfortunately caravans are still a hand made product.

As explained by many contributors to your post parts are either not available or being used to keep the company in business-the whole situation is the result of the present world crisis and I'm sure when your part is available you will get your faulty part replaced.

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Then of course there's the issue that maybe Bailey themselves cannot get parts from third party suppliers! I am not trying to second guess anything here, but caravan manufacturers  basically only make the outer body panels and “buy in” everything else such as......

Chassis

Windows

Doors

Cooker

Fridge

Toilet

Heater

Internal furniture and fittings (cupboards, wardrobes etc) 

Soft furnishings

 

They are better described as caravan assemblers rather than manufacturers these days.

 

The list is pretty endless. What if the makers of above caravan parts cannot get components from their suppliers? 

 

 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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I appreciate that if the parts are not there threats will not get them there, but if Bailey are using them for new models the threat might work. If they are not available the problem cannot be rectified within a  reasonable time and you can ask for your money back.  This is an option, but if you want the caravan then you may not want to use it, possibly it depends on if the caravan is useable as it is.

Edited by Wildwood
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I know that some Bailey furniture is/was sourced from Italy, though I'm not sure if that was all furniture or just the fancy doors/drawer fronts. Either way, if you have a production demand for one of the same door on each van and you produce 50 vans a day and receive 50 doors a day you're not likely to divert one door to a warranty claim and lose a van from your production.  

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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11 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

caravan manufacturers  basically only make the outer body panels and “buy in” everything else such as......

The outer bodies are probably brought (on a roll maybe?) in also......Bailey will cut them to shape and bond them.

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There are Youtube videos showing Bailey's body panel production facility. IIRC it's on a separate Bristol site, next door to the Prima building. They receive GRP and insulating infill panels and cut them to shape/bond them together.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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1 hour ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

There are Youtube videos showing Bailey's body panel production facility. IIRC it's on a separate Bristol site, next door to the Prima building. They receive GRP and insulating infill panels and cut them to shape/bond them together.

As I thought-similar to a car stamping body shop.

The steel arrives in a 50 ton roll.

It then goes through a leveler to take out the curve before being cut to length.

A full pallet of cut lengths is then transported to the press line to be stamped into a shape.....

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Think my local Bailey dealer getting desperate for something to sell just received message from him asking owners wishing to sell to him to request a price.

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