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Help please. Everything is different.


Paulines7
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We have just bought a 2010 Bailey Pageant Bordeaux but the previous owner needed his gas bottles for his new van but he said that the pigtail was for a Butane blue gas cylinder.    We thought we would stick to that for the time being as the propane cylinders are in short supply.  Our local hardware shop changed an empty Propane cylinder that we had in the old 1996 caravan for a  Butane one.  Our new van has a Truma bulkhead 30 mbar regulator.  When we went to fit the pigtail to the butane bottle, we couldn't screw it on as the other end was connected to the regulator.  Does that mean that we need to disconnect the pigtail from the regulator so we can screw the other end onto the cylinder?  It may seem simple to everyone else but for the past 28 years, we have had regulators that actually screw into the top of the bottles so what we are faced with is all very new to us.  We tried just pushing the pigtail into the bottle and turning on the Trauma regulator but we didn't get and gas through.   Please help us before we blow ourselves up!  We have been caravanning since 1993 but everything is new to us with our 2010 van. 

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First, to understand where you are coming from:-

 

1) What Butane bottle have you now got, Make and size?

 

2) is the free end of the pigtail, a  male threaded screw, a female threaded screw or a "Clip-on"" device?

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Posted (edited)

 

4 hours ago, JTQ said:

First, to understand where you are coming from:-

 

1) What Butane bottle have you now got, Make and size?

 

2) is the free end of the pigtail, a  male threaded screw, a female threaded screw or a "Clip-on"" device?

 

Thanks for your reply JTQ.

1)  It's a Calor Gas 7kg butane cylinder

2)  I don't know if it's what is termed as male, female so I have taken some photos.  It has a black switch on it which I thought would lock it onto the cylinder but it doesn't move when on or off the bottle.   The previous owner said that it was set up for the blue butane cylinder when we first looked at the caravan.  I have since messaged him and he has confirmed that.   The pigtail fits the gas bottle but then it is not a tight fit and there is no way of screwing it in when the other end is connected to the regulator.   Does this mean that every time we fit a replacement bottle we have to take the other end off the regulator first?

 

Here are some photos of the pigtail.

DSCI0198.JPG

DSCI0200.JPG

DSCI0201.JPG

DSCI0203.JPG

Edited by Paulines7
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That gas cylinder is normally used for portable heaters.  The connector that you have looks as though it may fit.  If so, you need to press it down onto the cylinder and turn the knob.  Once connected, the knob act as an on/off tap.  You will need to press the red button on the knob to rotate it further when you want to disconnect the cylinder.

 

If you decide to change to the more usual cylinders for a caravan it appears that you can unscrew the coupling by means of the large, brass nut.  Note that this has a left-handed thread.  It is hard to see whether it is a male or female fitting until it is dismantled.

 

 A male thread is the sort that you find on a screw or bolt.  A female thread is the sort in a nut.  Use you imagination to work out why these names are used!

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I believe this is what we are seeing:

 

The pig tail is a clip-on, most likely a 21 mm one as used on Calor's 7 kg bottle.

Looking in to it as your first picture shows there is a "key" piece that's function is to lock it into the groove around the bottles stem.

But to get it "on" this has to be retracted; I suspect that is done by pressing in the red  pin piece.

It should be interlocked so that retracting can only be done  when the lever is in the off position, otherwise gas would escape everywhere.

When latched onto the bottle properly, then the tap lever can be turned to "on". What happens then, unseen, is the pin right in the centre of the clip-on, pushes a valve open on the bottle.

 

You can usually play with these clip on  connectors to check these functions, before starting, so you better understand it. Viewing as photo one, see the latch move as you press in the red pin, and the centre pin moves as the lever turns.

 

Putting the connector on, as well as pushing in the red pin should require a firm push down, as there are seals to be made.

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I used to use that connection method when we used 7kg butane cylinders. It is a simple push on fitting. Place the pig tail connector over the cylinder connector at a slight angle then push it on, hard. It should click into place. To release lift the black plastic lever.

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24 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

I used to use that connection method when we used 7kg butane cylinders. It is a simple push on fitting. Place the pig tail connector over the cylinder connector at a slight angle then push it on, hard. It should click into place. To release lift the black plastic lever.

 

Bit worrying, I have several clip on connectors and in all cases lifting the lever actual switches on the gas, and all are interlocked so can't be released when switched on, and require latching on and latching off.

Hence stating "play" with that one off the bottle to see how it is designed to be operated and interlocked.

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9 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Bit worrying, I have several clip on connectors and in all cases lifting the lever actual switches on the gas, and all are interlocked so can't be released when switched on, and require latching on and latching off.

Hence stating "play" with that one off the bottle to see how it is designed to be operated and interlocked.

On the connector pictured, the tap is the bit on the end with the red protrusion. You can't lift the lever if the tap is "on".

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6 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

On the connector pictured, the tap is the bit on the end with the red protrusion. You can't lift the lever if the tap is "on".

 

Okay, none of mine are like the OPs so I can't speak as you from direct knowledge, but as stated if the OP examines it and plays with it, all would then become self-evident how it functions, for that specific design.

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20 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Okay, none of mine are like the OPs so I can't speak as you from direct knowledge, but as stated if the OP examines it and plays with it, all would then become self-evident how it functions, for that specific design.

When the tap is "on" it locates over the end of the release lever and prevents it being lifted.

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Thank you all for your replies. 

 

1 hour ago, DACS said:

That gas cylinder is normally used for portable heaters.  The connector that you have looks as though it may fit.  If so, you need to press it down onto the cylinder and turn the knob.  Once connected, the knob act as an on/off tap.  You will need to press the red button on the knob to rotate it further when you want to disconnect the cylinder.

DACS, when we first started caravanning 28 years ago, the 7kg blue butane cylinders were the norm.  When we started going away at Christmas and New Year though, we changed over to propane.  However, the propane cylinders are in very short supply at the moment and people cannot get them in certain parts of the country.  Even a couple of years ago we couldn't replace our empty propane cylinder in Cornwall as they had run out.  We tried several outlets too.    We have therefore decided to stick with the blue butane in our new caravan and change over to propane at a later date when they become more available.  We will then need to change the pigtail of course.    

 

1 hour ago, Legal Eagle said:

I used to use that connection method when we used 7kg butane cylinders. It is a simple push on fitting. Place the pig tail connector over the cylinder connector at a slight angle then push it on, hard. It should click into place. To release lift the black plastic lever.

 

Thank you Legal Eagle.  It's the little black lever that wouldn't move but I maybe didn't push it on hard enough because it didn't click into place.  I was trying to screw it in ...duh!   I will try again later and let you know if it worked.

 

Thank you everyone for your help in this matter and also for the sex lessons too about male and female nuts and bolts!  

If you hear a big explosion on Salisbury Plain, I assume it will be the Royal Artillery firing their big guns and not my caravan blowing up.  

 

I hope I am not going to have any other queries about my new 2010 caravan now that I have arrived in the 21st century! 

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7 minutes ago, Paulines7 said:

I hope I am not going to have any other queries about my new 2010 caravan now that I have arrived in the 21st century! 

Keep the queries coming Pauline, we all learn from questions and answers even those of us who have been vanning for 50 years and more. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

Keep the queries coming Pauline, we all learn from questions and answers even those of us who have been vanning for 50 years and more. ;)

 

Thank you Silversurf.   We haven't even started to fit the water yet!   The inlet looks very different to our old Lunar.  We now find we have an automatic flush loo and have no idea where the water comes from for that.  I assume it's from the main barrel but maybe it's put in with the rinse.  If the latter, how do we know when it is full.   We were shown where the rinse is put in under the outside flap.  We have plenty of literature on most things (apart from the gas pigtails) so I had better get  reading.  We also have to try the awnings, decide which one to take with us and make sure we have all the bits.  I also need to empty the old caravan and decide where to put the things in the new one.  One thing I have had difficulty with and that is fitting a mattress protector.  I have decided to stitch 4 or 5 pieces elastic to it to keep it in place.  The elastic will go under the mattress to keep it in place.  I hope it works!  

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45 minutes ago, Paulines7 said:

We now find we have an automatic flush loo and have no idea where the water comes from for that.  I assume it's from the main barrel but maybe it's put in with the rinse.  If the latter, how do we know when it is full.   

Hi Pauline - This video may help, lots more on youtube just like it :-) 

 

Your toilet may be slightly different but I think it was standard on your 2010 ?

Cheers, Martin

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If your loo water intake is as shown in the previous post video then it is straight forward enough. You just fill the loo header tank until it is full. My experience with the pink fluid is that it is a waste of money. It might make the flush water smell a bit nicer but it creates a load of black gunge that flushes through. 

In my opinion it is best to avoid using it.    

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6 hours ago, Cheltenham Caravanner said:

If your loo water intake is as shown in the previous post video then it is straight forward enough. You just fill the loo header tank until it is full. My experience with the pink fluid is that it is a waste of money. It might make the flush water smell a bit nicer but it creates a load of black gunge that flushes through. 

In my opinion it is best to avoid using it.    

I have a contra opinion in that I think a mild solution of pink fluid is worthwhile but you need to use it correctly. Don't use over strength and at the end of a trip empty your flush tank of pink flush and then run through just plain water. Doing this I've never had a problem with the reported black gunge.

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

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I don’t use anything in my cistern at home, so don’t see the need for anything in the flush tank in my caravan!  I do of course use the  normal toilet liquid (well actually Lidl Formil bio washing liquid) in the waste tank/cassette. 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Martin, thank you for the video, it was very helpful.

 

Thanks all for your comments.  In our Lunar, we have never had black gunge in our loo flush water tank and have always used the pink in the top flush and blue (or green) in the bottom compartment.  

 

I put the pigtail on the gas cylinder this afternoon but it started pouring with rain so I haven't tested it yet. 

 

Legal Eagle, the pigtail still moves a little bit when its on the top of the cylinder;  does that sound right?   I hope the gas isn't escaping but there was no smell at all.

 

I much prefer the propane cylinders as there are proper knobs on top for turning them on and off.   That felt safer in my opinion, even though the gas is turned off at the regulator.   

 

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Providing it clicked into place and no amount of tugging at it will pull it off, all should be well. Yes they can move a little when connected. As you say, the screw on connections for propane do feel far more secure.

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3 hours ago, Legal Eagle said:

Providing it clicked into place and no amount of tugging at it will pull it off, all should be well. Yes they can move a little when connected. As you say, the screw on connections for propane do feel far more secure.

Thanks Legal Eagle.   Should the pigtail be taken off the bottle when towing please?  

I will go and try lighting the hob later when it's a bit dryer outside.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Paulines7 said:

Thanks Legal Eagle.   Should the pigtail be taken off the bottle when towing please?  

I will go and try lighting the hob later when it's a bit dryer outside.

 

 

 

IMO not, leave the adapter clipped on the bottle, but with its "tap" lever turned "OFF". Doing this then the bottle is effectively double sealed, it valve is closed, and its neck seal is sealed.

I say this as the least amount of disturbance to the seal in the bottle neck the better. Each time  the  adapter is mounted its probe gets forced through the bottle's seal, so having made that connection right the once, not try to endlessly repeat doing so.

 

Others with screw in connections, again, are most unlikely to keep making and breaking these.

 

 

 

Edited by JTQ
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28 minutes ago, Paulines7 said:

Thanks Legal Eagle.   Should the pigtail be taken off the bottle when towing please?  

I will go and try lighting the hob later when it's a bit dryer outside.

 

 

I would suggest it's your choice. Personally I never travel with bottles connected. Others only disconnect to change an empty cylinder. I don't think there's a right or wrong as long as you turn the gas is off.

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FWIW....We have used this system and found it sometimes quite a chore to reconnect while the gas bottle is in the locker-bending down trying to line it up correctly so just leave them connected and turn off via the Tap lever as suggested by JTQ above but as mentioned by Legal Eagle it really is person choice and your KNEE's ability to bend ;-)

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21 hours ago, Paulines7 said:

Thank you Silversurf.   We haven't even started to fit the water yet!   The inlet looks very different to our old Lunar.  We now find we have an automatic flush loo and have no idea where the water comes from for that.  I assume it's from the main barrel but maybe it's put in with the rinse.  If the latter, how do we know when it is full.   We were shown where the rinse is put in under the outside flap.  We have plenty of literature on most things (apart from the gas pigtails) so I had better get  reading.  We also have to try the awnings, decide which one to take with us and make sure we have all the bits.  I also need to empty the old caravan and decide where to put the things in the new one.  One thing I have had difficulty with and that is fitting a mattress protector.  I have decided to stitch 4 or 5 pieces elastic to it to keep it in place.  The elastic will go under the mattress to keep it in place.  I hope it works!  

Hi Pauline, if like my van the flush is direct from the main barrel ( aquaroll) and no additive needed, you just need the water pump switched on to operate the flush.. There are specialist bedding suppliers who can supply the correct size and shape mattress protectors but they are more expensive than standard.

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22 hours ago, Paulines7 said:

We now find we have an automatic flush loo and have no idea where the water comes from for that.  I assume it's from the main barrel but maybe it's put in with the rinse.  If the latter, how do we know when it is full.   We were shown where the rinse is put in under the outside flap.

Hi Pauline, I assume you mean an electric flush and the water for that goes in the same place as the 'rinse' via the 'outside flap'.

You will know when its full as it will overflow!

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