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So many vehicles not using Towing mirrors today.


smith100s

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38 minutes ago, Richie43 said:

I just cannot see where you get dangerous from unless of course you are reversing 

How about moving out to avoid an obstacle (parked car) and not being able to see the motorcyclist about to / or overtaking you - or overtaking on the motorway without being able to see what's coming up behind - and then not being able to see if you are clear of the overtaken vehicle before pulling in.  Even if falling short of the test for 'dangerous', it would certainly fall within the definition of 'reckless'.

I totally agree with Flat_at, above - I too am totally amazed at some of the comments on here from people who, by virtue of the fact that they are members of this forum,  ought to be setting the highest of road safety standard as we go about our hobby.

VW Touareg Escape towing a 2018 Knaus Starclass 695

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Got to be honest, for the sake of taking a couple of minutes fitting my mirrors I use them every time I tow. 

 

Towing can be stressful sometimes and I want to be as safe as possible.  I understand when you have done something for years you can become gung-ho and start cutting corners. Just because you have not had an incident in 40 years of driving/towing doesn't mean it can't happen. 

 

Sorry to generalise my response. I have only had a driving licence for 25 years and still don't take as a right to drive, I see it as a privilege and one I don't want to loose.  Driving standards appear to be dropping generally so any device I can use to me me safer I will use. 

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1 hour ago, richardandros said:

Some might be poor - but not all.  I use Grand Aeros on a Touareg towing an 8' wide Knaus.  I have the extra long arms fitted to the mirrors because the standard ones don't give me a good enough view. They take a few minutes to put on - never vibrate or move when under way and I always go through the process of aligning them after hooking up - which again takes just a couple of minutes.  My car mirrors are 'powerfold' and they continue to be so when the towing mirrors are attached, so the flick of a switch can retract them, if necessary - and this feature is fairly common on UK cars now so I don't know where the reference to American vehicles comes from.

 

I agree that mirrors can get knocked off - 'white vanman' did that to me some years ago and ever since I have covered the back of my offside mirror with 'dayglo' yellow tape to make it stand out and judging by the number of vehicles who visibly move to their left as they approach me - it does seem to work.

 

Having had the same background s Mr Plodd, I too, am appalled at the number of tow cars I see on the road without extended mirrors - they are a danger to themselves and other road users - and I am equally appalled by some of the comments on here by people who obviously think that responsibility for safety on the road rests with others rather than themselves.

 

I agree with all that with the Milencos and longer arms - great view and little or no vibration.  I use a permanent marker in the same colour as the mirror surround (black) to show the outer limit of the outer fixing.  Using the same colour means I have to 'look' for it but it is just there but never noticeable.  Never a need to adjust.

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7 minutes ago, SamD said:

 

I agree with all that with the Milencos and longer arms - great view and little or no vibration.  I use a permanent marker in the same colour as the mirror surround (black) to show the outer limit of the outer fixing.  Using the same colour means I have to 'look' for it but it is just there but never noticeable.  Never a need to adjust.

Sam - good idea and I will give it a try.  I was a bit confused at first because I have white mirrors - but, of course - the surround is black! - So I see what you mean. There is a bit of leeway as to where the towing mirrors will clamp on the car's mirrors and I never get it in the same place twice - so thanks for that:Thankyou:

VW Touareg Escape towing a 2018 Knaus Starclass 695

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9 minutes ago, 8ftWanderer said:

Great idea :Thankyou:

 

I have just ordered these reflective stickers

 

Also an aide for selecting the correct mirror for the offside!!!

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Another one using Milenco Aeros, and fully intending to go on with them. Never had one flap about yet. Slight vibration in the o/side at some speeds if I don't get it fastened on right, but still enough vision to be useful even when that does happen.

 

To be honest, I probably don't need them , as the car's barely narrower than our tiny caravan, but I'd not be without them. That extra bit of view, because I'm boring enough to spend 3 or 4 minutes adjusting them, is well worth it.  I can see more of what's following me, which always seems a useful thing,  than if I just look in the car's own  door mirrors.
I even get to miss them when I first take them back off, until I re-adjust.


And that their appearance may be uncool enough to spoil the impression I might imagine I'm making on the impressionable seems rather on the same level as those who reckon it's uncool to put lights on their bike or wear reflective gear.

 

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Quite shocking attitude from some, both on here and on the roads, regarding the mirrors.

Anyone who says they don't assist with rear vision are either stupid or have a severe eyesight issue, get it checked out urgently at an opticians.   

 

Anyway,,, I just upgraded to the new Milenco Platinum ones, Take all of 10 minutes to set up from new.  Then a massive 1 minute each side to pop on.  Hardly an inconvenience.  They are rock solid and I went for these as an upgrade as I needed longer arms anyway for our new 8ft wide van.  

I hope the Police have a field day with this over the Summer.  Could be an expensive trip away for those that know better.

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I upset a Lorry driver in France because i only used my car mirror after overtaking him  

I had forgot to look into the extended mirror  

 

because my offside  car mirror gives a slightly distorted view for the car blind spot and made me think I was further away from him

when I looked into the extended mirror I saw how close I was with the back of the caravan

 

And he rightly showed me how unhappy he was

 

I had a lucky escape and learned a valuable lesson regarding my mirrors

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I overtook a Ford B-max on the motorway the other week, towing (or at least trying to tow) an 8 foot wide twin axle van. Needless to say, he had no extension mirrors.

 

Probably thought it was a waste of time as even with the extra width of the mirrors he still wouldn`t see down the side of the van as the car is so narrow. As he had probably broken every towing law known to man and anything else you could probably imagine, why bother with mirrors anyway?

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Have to agree with OP. Travelling up and down the M4/M48 from Newbury to Severn Bridge and back during the week in HGV.  Was surprised at lack of towing mirrors on caravans but also these large box type car transporters.

Don't even bother 'flashing them back in' now  after an overtake. They either stay in centre lane for ever or cut in trying to scrape paint off front bumper!

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5 hours ago, richardandros said:

Having had the same background s Mr Plodd, I too, am appalled at the number of tow cars I see on the road without extended mirrors - they are a danger to themselves and other road users - and I am equally appalled by some of the comments on here by people who obviously think that responsibility for safety on the road rests with others rather than themselves.

 

But those who religiously use towing mirrors and preach to the rest, are they always 100% road legal when not towing? 

Do they always stay within the speed limits?

Ever gone through a solid amber traffic light?

Ever knowingly driven with a light out, even if only briefly?

Ever......

 

I reckon such caravaners might have double standards, as soon as they hitch up a caravan they suddenly become road angels. Can they honestly say they are the same angels 100% of the time when not towing.

 

 

 

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On 25/06/2021 at 19:56, Camperdom said:

I don’t think there is a legal requirement for towing mirrors only a legal requirement to be able to see behind caravan that for compliance often require the fitting of towing mirrors. I must admit I no longer use them. I just got fed up with them.

If you cannot see the two rear corners of the caravan when in a straight line without extension mirrors, to put it simply, you are breaking the law by not fitting extension mirrors.

I fully accept that it may not be high on the authorities list to check BUT get stopped for another reason, such as an accident, and you may well find the vehicle (including extension mirrors) are subject to inspection, and carrying them in the boot does not help as it implies you know the rules and have chosen to ignore them.

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Edited by Gordon
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Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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To aid reducing vibrations I put these foam pads inside the clamp. Seems to have helped. 

 

I also weighted the base of the mirror with some stick on wheel weights, this also helps me understand the correct side i have set up the arm. I find the nearside is much harder to set up for correct view. 

[URL=https://www.directupload.net][IMG]https://s20.directupload.net/images/210626/jw73vrim.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

 

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I have the Milenco aeros and they take about a minute each side to fit - no vibration blurring, easy to fit.  The second time towing, I forgot to put them on and it was a quarter mile before I realised - took another 8 miles before I could find somewhere to stop safely without blocking traffic.  I now leave the mirrors on the drivers seat the night before leaving so I don't forget.

 

  

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2 hours ago, JCCD said:

 

But those who religiously use towing mirrors and preach to the rest, are they always 100% road legal when not towing? 

Do they always stay within the speed limits?

Ever gone through a solid amber traffic light?

Ever knowingly driven with a light out, even if only briefly?

Ever......

 

I reckon such caravaners might have double standards, as soon as they hitch up a caravan they suddenly become road angels. Can they honestly say they are the same angels 100% of the time when not towing.

 

 

 

It seems that  you're making assumptions about others here.
And  I'm not clear why the belief someone else may be hypocritical, because they possibly transgress in other ways, justifies taking the extra risk of not using extension mirrors, whether or not your assumption is right.

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2 hours ago, JCCD said:

 

But those who religiously use towing mirrors and preach to the rest, are they always 100% road legal when not towing? 

Do they always stay within the speed limits?

Ever gone through a solid amber traffic light?

Ever knowingly driven with a light out, even if only briefly?

Ever......

 

I reckon such caravaners might have double standards, as soon as they hitch up a caravan they suddenly become road angels. Can they honestly say they are the same angels 100% of the time when not towing.

 

 

 

 

Totally irrelevant. This thread concerns the fitting of towing mirrors, nothing else.

 

To wilfully not fit them, in the knowledge that almost certainly they are required is simply inexcusable. 

 

For the avoidance of doubt, Going through an amber light is not an offence, The offence is passing a Red traffic signal.

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Contrary to popular belief, towing mirrors are a legal requirement for the majority of cars including 4x4's that are towing a caravan or trailer.

Just something I read

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Totally irrelevant. This thread concerns the fitting of towing mirrors, nothing else.

 

To wilfully not fit them, in the knowledge that almost certainly they are required is simply inexcusable. 

 

For the avoidance of doubt, Going through an amber light is not an offence, The offence is passing a Red traffic signal.

 

It's far from irrelevant if those bleating  on and preaching to others about one area of the law fail to comply to other areas of the law.

 

To wilfully break the speed limit is also inexcusable, just as breaking other traffic laws is too. But there's no point someone bleating on about the dangers of not fitting towing mirrors if they themselves sometimes do a bit of cheeky speeding, that's just hypocritical.

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, JCCD said:

It's far from irrelevant if those bleating  on and preaching to others about one area of the law fail to comply to other areas of the law.

 

To wilfully break the speed limit is also inexcusable, just as breaking other traffic laws is too. But there's no point someone bleating on about the dangers of not fitting towing mirrors if they themselves sometimes do a bit of cheeky speeding, that's just hypocritical.

 

Fair points but the difference here is that some members have stated in front of up to 900 Guests, some of whom will be newcomers to caravanning, that they do not need to use towing mirrors because they can see 'enough' which clearly (sorry!) is not true in addition to being against the law.

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Copied from "Gov.UK" website.

 

Towing mirrors.

You must have an adequate view of the road behind you.

Fit suitable towing mirrors if your trailer or caravan is wider than the rear of your car.

You can be fined up to £1,000 and get 3 penalty points for towing without proper towing mirrors..

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14 hours ago, JCCD said:

But those who religiously use towing mirrors and preach to the rest, are they always 100% road legal when not towing? 

Do they always stay within the speed limits?

Ever gone through a solid amber traffic light?

Ever knowingly driven with a light out, even if only briefly?

Ever......

 

I reckon such caravaners might have double standards, as soon as they hitch up a caravan they suddenly become road angels. Can they honestly say they are the same angels 100% of the time when not towing.

Others have picked you up on this post and I will agree with most respondents.

I can honestly say that I have never towed a caravan without first fitting two external extensions mirrors. In the early days they were clamped to the front wings of the car but when the law changed saying that the normal offside mirror should be adjustable from the driver's seat, car manufacturers no longer fitted wing mirrors but instead relocated them to the side of the front door(s). As a consequence of this, towing extension mirrors tended to be fitted to the door from then on. While initially the budget models only had one door mirror, it wasn't long before a pair became the standard.

I used extension mirrors even on our narrow body caravans to obtain the best possible view to the rear. When later changing to wider body caravans, then extension mirrors became essential. When towing our boat however, I do not fit extension mirrors as I have a perfectly good view to the rear with the standard door mirrors.  

 

Regarding your assumptions that hypocrisy is rife because a driver may unintentionally break a rule, rather than knowingly and deliberately do so, is way out of line.

Picking up your examples:

I doubt there are many drivers who have never exceeded a posted speed limit, I know I have but I do not do it intentionally, and I correct the speed as soon as I am aware.

I have passed through traffic lights on amber if they have changed and it is too dangerous to stop quickly. I have not however crossed through a red light - and while amber means stop, it is still legal to cross on amber. That is why a delay is set before other traffic are given a green light.

Yes I have had a tail light fail whilst driving, and in the past I would not have been aware of this until I carried out my weekly checks. Current cars often have a lamp failure warning on the dashboard, and so remedial action can be taken immediately upon a failure. I do carry a full set of spare lamps in our vehicles at all times, along with appropriate tools if needed for minor repairs.

 

Finally I am no angel BUT will stick to the rules of the road (and that includes parking restrictions) - I am retired yet still have a clean licence! 

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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Someone appears to be falling back on the biblical defence of ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’!

 

To follow the line that ‘I don’t need extension mirrors because I can see well enough without’ perhaps says something about how much the driver is concerned about what is happening behind, or in close proximity to his caravan - or worse, that perhaps the standard of their driving is not as good  as they believe it to be.

 

Notwithstanding that it is illegal, why anyone would choose to be ignorant of the full situation around them before manoeuvring is beyond me. It is akin to playing ‘Russian Roulette’ but putting other peoples lives at risk along with your own.

 

Another argument I see on here is (paraphrased) I’m not spending £x,000 on a shiny outfit to show off and then have the looks spoiled with ugly sticky out mirrors. I can’t decide if the vanity involved is worse than the arrogance of the ‘I don’t need them’ brigade. Perhaps they would also like a bumper sticker proclaiming ‘You are not as important as me’

 

The unfortunate thing from my point of view is that the overworked Police and DVSA do not have sufficient resources to deal with all the offenders which we all see, and must be just as visible to them.

 

I know that some will take offence at these comments so I will now retire to my bunker with my tin hat and ear defenders!

Edited by reluctant
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:goodpost:

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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If you get pulled over and the police ask “why haven’t you got towing mirrors?” And you start to argue - Is he/she going to

  1. Listen to a well constructed argument about how your cars mirrors give great viewing angles and you don’t need them?
  2. Look at the back of your car, look at the caravan and point out your caravan is wider than your car and give you a ticket for taking the mick?

I think it’s going to be the second one every time.   Even if not convinced by the safety aspects, you could be saving yourself the hassle of a fine/points on your licence.

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