Jump to content

CRiS Legal Document or Not


Recommended Posts

Our caravan has been written off in a 3rd Party Fire, the heat from an ASDA delivery vehicle fire to our neighbour has damaged the front and roof.  We have made a claim with our insurers, they and the loss adjusters are demanding the original CRiS registration document.  I have applied for this document but CRiS have messed up the issue, ordinarily it would take up to 14 days to receive which in my view is a ludicrously long time to wait but now could take 3 weeks.  The lack of this document is holding up our claim.

Question: is the CRiS document a legal document and do our insurers have the right to demand it or are they using this to delay the process.

Incidentally our Brokers Lifesure within 12 hours of us submitting a claim trebled our renewal price, thanks Lifesure! 5 star service I don’t think so and all of this when our caravan was parked on our drive, locked and secured!

 

 

Edited by Rogerc0
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not see how it can be a legal document because it is optional. There is no legal requirement for CRiS details to be updated when caravan changes hands either. There is no law in the UK that requires a caravan to be registered. If there was caravans would be registered with DVLA same as motor vehicles. My caravan is imported & not CRiS reg. If I wanted to register with CRiS it would cost £62 & no insurer I have used has required it to be CRiS reg.

 

Tell the loss adjusters to speak with your insurer. If they want proof of age of caravan then the Vin number will tell them that. Google for how to read a caravan Vin number. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Camperdom said:

I do not see how it can be a legal document because it is optional. There is no legal requirement for CRiS details to be updated when caravan changes hands either. There is no law in the UK that requires a caravan to be registered. If there was caravans would be registered with DVLA same as motor vehicles. My caravan is imported & not CRiS reg. If I wanted to register with CRiS it would cost £62 & no insurer I have used has required it to be CRiS reg.

 

Tell the loss adjusters to speak with your insurer. If they want proof of age of caravan then the Vin number will tell them that. Google for how to read a caravan Vin number. 

Hi Camperdom

Thanks for your response, I have spoken to those who operate the insurance policy for the insurers and they are demanding the CRiS document, I have sent them the original purchase invoice with the vin number but still want CRiS document.

I’m not sure whom to Talk to next to move this forward, I do have legal cover with the van so maybe that’s the next port of call?

CRiS are still in the dark ages and only deal with paper and do not offer PDF and email :-(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was there a requirement in the conditions of the policy to have CRiS registration?  The policy conditions which all parties accepted are all that matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Ern

Thats a good idea will check now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They may be looking to use the lack of the CRIS document as a reason to decline the claim, if CRIS registration was a policy requirement. However as the claim is for fire damage, not theft, then I can't see how it could be material in deciding the claim. A mention that unless they get a shift on you will be referring the issue to the Insurance Ombudsman may make them buck up.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should be claiming off the ASDA vehicle insurance not your own! Yours insurers will almost certainly do that and reclaim all of their costs and that should mean your premium will not be effected. It might take a while for it all to filter through though. 

 

As for the requirement to produce a CRiS document, unless, as has been said, it was a condition if your insurance it was CRiS registered I cannot see how they can demand to see it. Have you asked them why they need to see it? 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bet it's just a box ticking exercise, part of the insurer's standard procedure. Maybe demanding to speak to a manager and telling them what you think, might mean it gets over the jobs worth hurdle.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CRiS registration document could be a legal document depending on the circumstances. For UK road traffic law purposes it isn't compulsory so not legislatively required but this isn't about road traffic law,

For the purposes of an insurance claim it is perfectly legitimate for an insurer to request whatever documentation is relevant or expected. They may consider it to be proof of your ownership and/or confirmation of the caravan's details. Another consideration is that if they are writing it off and paying out they become the owner and want all applicable documentation up front. It matters not whether it is mentioned in the Policy.

The delay caused by CRiS is out of your control and your insurer should accept that. It can hardly be a delaying tactic on the insurer's part. As part of their standard claims procedure they no doubt expected you to be in possession of the CRiS registration document, not have to apply for one to be issued.

Edited by Legal Eagle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

You should be claiming off the ASDA vehicle insurance not your own! Yours insurers will almost certainly do that and reclaim all of their costs and that should mean your premium will not be effected. It might take a while for it all to filter through though. 

 

As for the requirement to produce a CRiS document, unless, as has been said, it was a condition if your insurance it was CRiS registered I cannot see how they can demand to see it. Have you asked them why they need to see it? 

Hi Mr Plodd

Thanks for your input.  The Terms of my policy require me to advise them of a claim or loss, they will deal with Asda and try and recover all losses.

I have checked the policy wording and they only require proof of ownership, have also emailed them and asked why they need the CRiS document but no response so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every UK built caravan since 1992 has been registered with CRiS at the point of sale and whilst it is not legally required to update them on change of ownership, it does record details like outstanding finance, Insurance claims and of course ownership (which may or may not be up to date).

 

Your Insurance company are being particularly fussy, but thats Insurance companies for you.

 

Slightly off topic, Banks can be equally stupid, when my Daughter died and I informed them they said they needed the Death Certificate, which was not available at that time, but I did have interim Death Certificates which I offered them, but they refused that.

What was really stupid is that nothing was going to make my Daughter alive again !!!!

I never sent the documents in the end as if they wanted them they could pay for it themselves.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Brecon said:

Every UK built caravan since 1992 has been registered with CRiS at the point of sale and whilst it is not legally required to update them on change of ownership, it does record details like outstanding finance, Insurance claims and of course ownership (which may or may not be up to date).

 

Your Insurance company are being particularly fussy, but thats Insurance companies for you.

 

Slightly off topic, Banks can be equally stupid, when my Daughter died and I informed them they said they needed the Death Certificate, which was not available at that time, but I did have interim Death Certificates which I offered them, but they refused that.

What was really stupid is that nothing was going to make my Daughter alive again !!!!

I never sent the documents in the end as if they wanted them they could pay for it themselves.

 

 

 

When my mother passed away I rang Sky to cancel her subscription. They wouldn’t do so without speaking to her.

 

I did ask if he had a Ouija board as that was the only way he was ever going to communicate with her.  

 

Stony  ground!!! 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have now read the policy wording and it makes no reference to CRiS or any CRiS document. It asks for Proof of Ownership only which I provided with the original purchase receipt which contains the VIN number and also the original CRiS letter at point of transfer. I believe CRiS registration is probably sensible and would do this in future but I cannot see how it’s a legal requirement! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It most definitely is not a legal requirement, advisable certainly, but totally voluntary.

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

It most definitely is not a legal requirement, advisable certainly, but totally voluntary.

It may not be a legal requirement under road traffic (criminal) law but it may still be considered a legal document for other (civil law) purposes e.g. proof of ownership and/or details. The bottom line is the insurer wants it and the longer the claimant questions it, the longer the claim will take to settle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely as it's a voluntary scheme  it can only be viewed as a possible proof of ownership, by definition it cannot be considered THE positive proof of ownership and its lack should not delay any insurance claim, providing adequate other relevant information is provided. As an ex-Eriba owner I know that, except for Adria, no Continental vans are CRIS registered unless owners wish to pay their fees and jump through their hoops. Quite how would this insurance company go on if faced with a claim by a non-registered van owner?

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

When my mother passed away I rang Sky to cancel her subscription. They wouldn’t do so without speaking to her.

 

I did ask if he had a Ouija board as that was the only way he was ever going to communicate with her.  

 

Stony  ground!!! 

I had exactly the same problem when my Mother passed away Andy. Everybody, apart from Sky couldn't have been more sympathetic or helpful. I asked Sky to send any correspondence to my address to save me from calling in to her house. Same as you, "We can only send correspondence to your mothers address unless we speak to her in person to authorise the change of address".

I told them that any correspondence sent to my mothers address would be marked "Return to sender" by me. Her bank accounts had already been stopped by her bank, so they couldn't take any payments without her solicitors agreement. Never heard from them again, so I assume that my late mother is still on Skys "bad debtor" list somewhere.

Must be something in their training!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CRiS registration is certainly not proof of ownership it is merely a record of who is registered as the keeper of the vehicle at a point in time. In our case I am the sole registered keeper on the CRiS document however it is jointly owned by myself and my wife. The sales documentation is all in our joint names and it was paid for from our joint account.

A previous van we owned was written off after 18 months due to an accident and CMC insurance did ask for the CRiS document which we had and supplied together with a copy of the original purchase receipt, They did not want the owners handbook which contained the service history record. Our claim was dealt with exceedingly well by CMC.

 

Frank

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Using the CRiS registration as ownership proof (in conjunction with receipt etc.) was simply suggested as a possible reason. It may be they want all relevant documentation due to the caravan being written off. PFR says CMC wanted the document when his caravan was written off.

 

The rights and wrongs of it are immaterial. They hold the money and want the registration document before releasing it!

Under certain circumstances many motor insurers won't pay out on a total loss unless you supply the V5C and both keys. There's no legal requirement for two keys but if you want your money you have to supply them.

Edited by Legal Eagle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Townie said:

I told them that any correspondence sent to my mothers address would be marked "Return to sender" by me.

Or tell them to send any correspondence to The South Headland, Porth Neigwl, Gwynedd, LL53 7GL, her present location..................well her ashes anyway. :lol:

 

The South headland is where many folks ashes are spread, with lots of little markers etc.

 

Penny to a pinch of they will send letters to there. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Loss Adjusters web site says the following;

The CRiS registration document will help to substantiate your claim in that it will:
– Confirm the correct identity of the caravan
– Reveal if the caravan is:
– Recorded as on finance
– Reported as stolen
– Recorded as an Insurance Write-Off
– Confirm that you are currently recorded with CRiS as the current keeper
 

Does the CRiS registration document contain this information?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will certainly bear the caravan VIN and last notified registered keeper details. If a replacement certificate is applied for and any of the other conditions apply then I believe they will be present too.

https://www.CRiS.co.uk/registration/

Edited by Legal Eagle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for all your comments, I am eager to complete the loss adjusting process as we have found another caravan and whilst the dealer is being very helpful for moment they may not wait for us for too much longer, we were very fortunate to find the perfect van for us so I am going to complete the CRiS check which I think provides the Loss Adjusters with what they need, worth a go?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Frankly I would write to the insurer and say the document is not a legal one, does not confirm actual ownership and they have examined the remains of the caravan so its existence is not in doubt. There is no justifiable reason not tp proceed with the claim and that they should regard this as complaint and you wish for a full explanation in line with their complaints procedure and will take the matter to the Ombudsdman if you are not happy with their reply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having outstanding finance on a van is of no relevant interest to an insurer as their contract is with the insured person and it has to be the insured person's responsibility to settle any finance.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...