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Have I been mis-sold this caravan?


Margot
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Hello

 

I hope someone may be able to help me. I have just put a deposit down (private sale) on a Fleetwood Colchester. The ad stated it was 2010, and this is the year it was first CRiS registered according to the print out we have been given. However, have now done my research I see this model has not been made since 2005! I believe it is the 2005 model as the upholstery is the same as pictures I have now seen.
 

Does anyone have any experience of a caravan being first CRiS registered years after it was made?

 

Or does anyone know if Fleetwood continued to make the 2005 model after that year? 
 

Thank you for any help.

 

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See below for link to Fleetwood Owners Club - 2005 latest as you say.  CRiS registration site says

 

Is it worth CRiS registering my old caravan?

Registration is of great value for caravans of any age. Any caravan manufactured in the UK since 1992 will have been automatically registered with CRiS when it was built and first purchased. You can register caravans preceding this date through our Pre 1992 process. 

 

https://www.fleetwood-owners-club.co.uk/fleetwood-caravans/by-model/133-colchester-1999-2005

 

I would get onto CRiS at earliest opportunity.

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In June 2013 I bought a brand new 2012MY caravan, built in October 2011. So it was 21 months old when I got it, but I was the first owner. Not quite the 5 year difference of the OP's van. Most new UK built vans are registered with CRIS by the original selling dealer, once they have a name and details for the buyer. Some get overlooked and whether that system was in existence in 2005 I couldn't say. CRIS lacks reliability after the first purchaser as they often have no idea of further changes of ownership.   

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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As its a private sale, just pull out, the fact you are doubting the authenticity of the van tells me you have doubts,you may lose your deposit but walk away and look elsewhere.

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It’s not that unusual for motorhomes to be several years “old” prior to their first registration at which point it is considered to be “new” Having been sat at the manufacturer’s fir a while and then delivered to a dealer where it can again sit for a further year or so. The more expensive the longer that is likely. 

 

That does seem a perverse situation to me as I would want to know when something was actually manufactured. 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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It IMO, depends on the precise wording that claimed it to be a 2010 caravan. Here our helpful "Legal Eagle" would be our best source of the specifics.

 

The CRA 2015, even for private sales applies where the product was "misrepresented".

 

To me the "age" of anything is when it was made, not when it was sold retail, even if that might be used for other reasons.

Was any claim made of its "model year"?

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Posted (edited)

How did the op pay the deposit, cash or credit card, though being a private sale possibly cash.

 

The op could also ask the seller for a copy of the sale of the van to the seller and any previous service, damp check documentation etc.

 

I wonder where the op saw it advertised and as once came out in a previous similar post on CT, it was found that the seller was selling caravans from his home address.

 

Around the van there may be several items with a manufacturing date code on them such as space heater, water heater, PSU, coker / hob, with a date pretty close to that when it was manufactured, sadly no use to the op till they buy it.

 

Ref the date it was built and the date it was registered, there is the interesting odd thread on CT about the Lunar debacle where Lunar Automotive were selling a couple of vans, they may still be for sale, as 2021 models that were actually built in 2019 for the 2020 season.

Edited by Silversurf
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Posted (edited)

I think the year of manufacture can be worked out from the chassis number. It will be stamped onto all the windows as well as the chassis somewhere. Ask the seller for it and then do a check. This link explains how to check the year 

https://camperscaravans.co.uk/work-out-caravan-build-year/#:~:text=CARAVAN BUILD YEAR GIVEAWAY%3A VIN NUMBER&text=You will find the VIN,how old your caravan is.

 

The 10th character of your VIN number denotes how old your caravan is.
N = 1992
P = 1993
R = 1994
S = 1995
T = 1996
V = 1997
W = 1998
X = 1999
Y = 2000
1 = 2001
2 = 2002
3 = 2003
4 = 2004
5 = 2005
6 = 2006
7 = 2007
8 = 2008
9 = 2009
A = 2010
B = 2011
C = 2012
D = 2013
E = 2014

Edited by Paul1957
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What deposit have you paid? is the seller the first owner, if not he may have been misled too?

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37 minutes ago, gtepete said:

What deposit have you paid? is the seller the first owner, if not he may have been misled too?

I have paid £500 by bank transfer. They are not the first owners.

Thank you so much for the replies, they really  are most helpful. I will ask them for the chassis number.

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If you decide not to buy it then I reckon it will be down to the good will of the seller to refund your money, I don't think you have any protection from a private sale from a private advert and using a bank transfer. It's a civil contract that you choose to back out of, with the seller deciding to refund your money, or not.

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15 minutes ago, JCCD said:

If you decide not to buy it then I reckon it will be down to the good will of the seller to refund your money, I don't think you have any protection from a private sale from a private advert and using a bank transfer. It's a civil contract that you choose to back out of, with the seller deciding to refund your money, or not.

 

I am sure they do if there is "misrepresentation" involved.

Intended or not, IMO, goods have to be as described.

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If you find the caravan is 5 years older than told, I would try to get a revised valuation. If you still like the caravan and want it and it is damp free with no other problems, see if they will sell it at the lower price. I would not believe much they tell you though so make sure you check everything with damp being the major one.

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I’ve checked the chassis number from the CRiS check and it definitely was made in 2005, thank you to the posters who told me about this.

I will speak to CRiS when they open tomorrow and ask how the 5 year discrepancy may have come about and take it from there. Thanks again for the replies.

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 You may be wasting your time talking to CRiS, we bought our 'van at 2 years old and they have us down as the first owners. Despite being shown proof that it was previously registered by them, they will not re-issue the documents.

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Posted (edited)

When a company making caravans goes down, any stock held by them or their ex dealers becomes very difficult to sell, therefore it taking 5 years to sell, could indeed be true, but my point remains it is then 5 years old, not a 2010 van.

 

Thus, the exact wording used is so critical in respect to "misrepresentation".

 

 

Edited by JTQ
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1 hour ago, JTQ said:

When a company making caravans goes down, any stock held by them or their ex dealers becomes very difficult to sell, therefore it taking 5 years to sell, could indeed be true, but my point remains it is then 5 years old, not a 2010 van.

 

Thus, the exact wording used is so critical in respect to "misrepresentation".

 

 

 Spot on -  2010 registered van - might be somewhat misleading in advert but would be true!

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The ad simply says ‘Lovely 2010 Fleetwood Colchester...’ which very much implied to me it was made then.

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5 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

That does seem a perverse situation to me as I would want to know when something was actually manufactured. 

5 hours ago, bob25 said:

https://camperscaravans.co.uk/work-out-caravan-build-year/

Have a look at the above if the link works

The same information is also on our own website here so ask the seller to tell you the 10th character in the CRiS number (often the last letter of the first line when stamped into a window). From 2001 to 2009 it will be a number (5=2005) and from 2010 a letter is used (A=2010, B=2011 etc).

The CRiS website address is https://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/cris_scheme.aspx

Regarding the advert, at the moment we don't know whether the date given is a genuine error or the seller telling porkies.

As far as I recall, Fleetwood went into administration in January 2009, although I believe the company had been owned by Adria since 2004. Thus a 2010 build date sounds very unlikely, unless it was one of the last few built after August 2009 when the manufacture date letter changed to 2010.

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Margot said:

The ad simply says ‘Lovely 2010 Fleetwood Colchester...’ which very much implied to me it was made then.

 

Then, unless qualified to explain what that means in the meat of the advert itself, it implies a 2010 build which never happened cos they ceased production in 2005

14 minutes ago, Gordon said:

The same information is also on our own website here so ask the seller to tell you the 10th character in the CRiS number (often the last letter of the first line when stamped into a window). From 2001 to 2009 it will be a number (5=2005) and from 2010 a letter is used (A=2010, B=2011 etc).

The CRiS website address is https://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/cris_scheme.aspx

Regarding the advert, at the moment we don't know whether the date given is a genuine error or the seller telling porkies.

As far as I recall, Fleetwood went into administration in January 2009, although I believe the company had been owned by Adria since 2004. Thus a 2010 build date sounds very unlikely, unless it was one of the last few built after August 2009 when the manufacture date letter changed to 2010.

 Your post crossed with the OP's follow up

Edited by SamD
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The chassis number gives the year away. The seller cannot dispute the age nor can they dispute their misrepresentation. If you like the caravan tell seller you will pay him the price of a 2005 model or he can return your deposit. 

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Posted (edited)

Good luck Margot, let us know how you get on. I know how you feel, it’s not nice being duped (and don’t forget that it could be that the sellers have themselves been duped and genuinely think they have a 2010 van). But lots of great advice on here and the good news is that at least it IS CRiS registered with the current owner so you’re not dealing with a stolen van (but worth double checking that too of course!). 

Edited by VintageSprite
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16 hours ago, Margot said:

I’ve checked the chassis number from the CRiS check and it definitely was made in 2005, thank you to the posters who told me about this.

I will speak to CRiS when they open tomorrow and ask how the 5 year discrepancy may have come about and take it from there. Thanks again for the replies.

If you like the van, its has been serviced and has no damp, then look at the prices for a 2005 van and offer them a deal at the lower price.

The CRiS ID should be etched on the windows, so checking the age from that should be easy as posted above.

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Still might be worth a  call to trading standards (in the area the seller lives) for advice...they can get involved in some circumstances... 

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