Insurance

[Guest tuggit]

Halifax caravanguard

refused cover because I’m in a wheelchair and cannot out an AL-KO lock on.

disgusting

no insurance

why.

because my body is different 

[ericfield]

I am surprised at that, given Caravanguards own publications supporting caravanning for the disabled.....

 

https://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/accessible-caravanning-for-people-with-disabilities-24588/

Edited May 14, 2021 by ericfield

[Paul1957]

The C&CC would not insure our caravan if it was valued over £20k unless it had an AL-KO wheel lock OR is stored in a CASSOA gold site OR has a tracker. Could be Caravanguard will insure you if you have one of these 3 things. I could not do any of these so insured it market value at well under £20k and any old wheel clamp is good enough for that.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Paul1957

[Ern]

12 minutes ago, tuggit said:

Halifax caravanguard

refused cover because I’m in a wheelchair and cannot out an AL-KO lock on.

disgusting

no insurance

why.

because my body is different 

Lots of people don't like the AL-KO wheel lock and would simply go elsewhere for their insurance.

[Guest]

Plenty of insurance available that does not require the AL-KO lock. Simply shop around. 

[Mr Plodd]

Its purely a commercial decision, based solely on the fact you are unable to comply with one of their conditions, that being you must use a certain form of security device. 

I am insured with them, if I fail to fit the wheel lock there is a higher risk of my caravan being stolen and, as such, if my caravan then got stolen because I didn’t fit an AL-KO wheel lock they wouldn’t pay out. Are you expecting them to offer you preferential treatment or terms compared to other caravan users such as me?  Some people pay more for their insurance, or are refused cover, because of the postcode they live in.

 

They will not cover you because you cannot comply with one of their conditions of offering insurance. Anyone else who is unable, or unwilling to fit a security measure an insurer stipulates must be used, will also be refused cover.

 

It’s a simple commercial decision on their part and has nothing to do with you being in a wheelchair.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for the situation you find yourself in, but I can also see Caravan Guards side of the argument. Like any other business offering goods or services  they are not obliged to sell you anything at all.

 

 

 

 

[macafee2]

33 minutes ago, tuggit said:

Halifax caravanguard

refused cover because I’m in a wheelchair and cannot out an AL-KO lock on.

disgusting

no insurance

why.

because my body is different 

It could be considered that it is you or it could be considered that it is the risk of the caravan being stolen when the     

Al KO wheel lock is not fitted.  

Ask yourself, if you could fit the lock whilst in your wheelchair would they insure you?

 

macafee2

[Guest CliveB]

I am in the process of renewing my caravan insurance and a few policies had endorsements stating an AL-KO wheel lock must be used.  I use a Nemesis lock and I'm not going to change to a fiddly and expensive AL-KO lock.

Query through the broker.  Lifesure came back immediately stating they would accept the Nemesis.

Also if no wheel lock was employed a tracker was accepted as an alternative which may be acceptable to the OP.

Tuggit, you have my support.  Although not disabled mysel my wife and I are full time carers to a wheelchair user and it is amazing how much is still stacked against the disabled despite the Equality Act.

 

 

[Wildwood]

Insurers have an absolute right to turn down cover if you do not fit their criteria although for a firm supporting disabled caravanners it looks ludicrous.  

You do not say what the problem is but many charities have insurance connections and might help.

[Guest tuggit]

Well it seems a 50 50 split 

some saying it’s the policy and some offering some advice.

it is clearly stated in law,

you cannot treat anyone with a difference.

because I cannot fit this stupid AL-KO lock, I was told to get 24 hour gated security,

my point now is, because I cannot do the lock, I have to gates for security.

now, an able bodied can fit the lock, and because I cannot I am asked to put out large amounts to comply.

that is not correct.

treating people with a difference.

I will go to another company.

I bought a nice van and wanted good cover,

I cannot get the best cover.

that is my point 

[KnausCol]

You have my sympathy but insurance companies are a law unto themselves and their risk assessment is not considered discrimination. Consider that their willingness to insure or the loading of premiums can depend on all sorts of things e.g. age, home address, occupation etc. 

They are not discriminating against your disability, just you not complying to their requirement to use AL-KO locks.

[Wildwood]

Both clubs offer excellent policies that are just as good as Caravanguard.

[Paul1957]

3 hours ago, Wildwood said:

Both clubs offer excellent policies that are just as good as Caravanguard.

I do not know about the CMC but C&CC if valued above £20k still want an AL-KO lock (or CASSOA gold  or tracker) so the C&CC may not be any good for tuggit. For us, the C&CC brought this requirement in last year.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Paul1957

[Crannoghome]

Looking on the Caravanguard website it says:

 

"Our minimum security requirements are that your caravan is fitted with a hitchlock, plus a wheel clamp (covering at least one wheel nut) or axle wheel lock (e.g. AL-KO Secure) when left unattended and detached from your towing vehicle."

 

So it appears that if you have don't have, don't want to or can't fit an AL-KO lock, then  as long as you have a wheel clamp fitted (in addition to a hitchlock), it satisfies Caravanguard's security criteria.

 

Similarly with storage, Caravanguard lists a number of acceptable locations, ranging from on your drive at  home to a secure CASSOA site.

 

Given the above, I'm puzzled as to why the OP was told he must fit an AL-KO lock and that needed 24 hour gated security.

[Mr Plodd]

On 14/05/2021 at 22:32, tuggit said:

Halifax caravanguard

refused cover because I’m in a wheelchair and cannot out an AL-KO lock on.

disgusting

no insurance

why.

because my body is different 

 

No mention in the above about gated security, only the requirement to fit an AL-KO wheel lock.

[Crannoghome]

9 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

No mention in the above about gated security, only the requirement to fit an AL-KO wheel lock.

 

See Tuggit's post 6 posts up.

[Wildwood]

On the basis of the quote by Crannoghome a Wraith or Nemisis Ultra would satisfy the requirement and these are far more disability friendly than anything else I know of. 

[2seaside]

I believe that Caravanguard give a discount if an AL-KO wheel lock is fitted, they do not necessarily insist that particular brand has to be used in order to get insurance.

It's a pity that Tuggit cannot find a friend or neighbour willing to fit and unfit the AL-KO lock when the van is due to be unhitched/hitched up in order to get the discount - although reading the reviews, several people have commented with varying degrees of exasperation about how tricky they are to fit.

[Guest tuggit]

On 14/05/2021 at 22:50, Ern said:

Lots of people don't like the AL-KO wheel lock and would simply go elsewhere for their insurance.

Yes I know, but to be adamant on AL-KO, when there are plenty more gold standard clamps etc.

they offered no help or further advice.

so I did get insured by a.n. other, not my loss.

but make people aware.

 

2 hours ago, 2seaside said:

I believe that Caravanguard give a discount if an AL-KO wheel lock is fitted, they do not necessarily insist that particular brand has to be used in order to get insurance.

It's a pity that Tuggit cannot find a friend or neighbour willing to fit and unfit the AL-KO lock when the van is due to be unhitched/hitched up in order to get the discount - although reading the reviews, several people have commented with varying degrees of exasperation about how tricky they are to fit.

I had a twin wheel with 2 AL-KO locks, insured by them, a few years ago, I had to sell that thing, lining up two wheels is silly, I started at pitch one and ended up on 22.

or you have to Jack it up, or air bag it up, what a faff.

nice van, terrible locks, but very secure.

[Steven]

On 15/05/2021 at 19:19, tuggit said:

Well it seems a 50 50 split 

some saying it’s the policy and some offering some advice.

it is clearly stated in law,

you cannot treat anyone with a difference.

 

now, an able bodied can fit the lock, and because I cannot I am asked to put out large amounts to comply.

that is not correct.

treating people with a difference

I do not understand how you can claim you are being treated differently because of your disability?

The insurance company stipulates that the wheel lock must be fitted for them to provide cover, that policy applies to yourself and any other person, be they able bodied or disabled.

 

As you cannot fit the wheel lock you are being asked to provide an alternative means of security, just the same as an able bodied person would be that chose not to fit the wheel lock.

[Mr Plodd]

[SamD]

21 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

I do not understand how you can claim you are being treated differently because of your disability?

The insurance company stipulates that the wheel lock must be fitted for them to provide cover, that policy applies to yourself and any other person, be they able bodied or disabled.

 

As you cannot fit the wheel lock you are being asked to provide an alternative means of security, just the same as an able bodied person would be that chose not to fit the wheel lock.

 

You may be right in your points but it's not really that simple in that discrimination arising from disability is when you’re treated unfairly because of something connected to your disability rather than the disability itself. The Equality Act says you’ve been treated unfavourably.  Your able bodied example had a choice whereas that choice did not exist for the OP.

This quote, I think, throws better light on the issue:

 

But there are other times when you may be treated in the same way as everybody else, but it has a different and worse effect on you because of who you are. This is also discrimination. The Equality Act 2010 calls this indirect discrimination.

[Guest tuggit]

4 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

I do not understand how you can claim you are being treated differently because of your disability?

The insurance company stipulates that the wheel lock must be fitted for them to provide cover, that policy applies to yourself and any other person, be they able bodied or disabled.

 

As you cannot fit the wheel lock you are being asked to provide an alternative means of security, just the same as an able bodied person would be that chose not to fit the wheel lock.

Your one of the negatives who reads and just must put in a pennies worth now let me say it how it came then I can relish your next snide.

I was not offered any alternative at all.

AL-KO or no insurance that’s it, that is what I was told end of.

later they called and said put electric gates on ( how much)?

so now you know.

I also know you won’t be able to hold a snide remark. Try understand people better, then reply.

nothing nice to say. Then be quiet 

[Steven]

50 minutes ago, tuggit said:

Your one of the negatives who reads and just must put in a pennies worth now let me say it how it came then I can relish your next snide.

I was not offered any alternative at all.

AL-KO or no insurance that’s it, that is what I was told end of.

later they called and said put electric gates on ( how much)?

so now you know.

I also know you won’t be able to hold a snide remark. Try understand people better, then reply.

nothing nice to say. Then be quiet 

 

You shouldn’t be posting on public forums if you do not want others to give you their thoughts and opinions.

 

Your posts come across as “I am disabled and I am entitled to be treated different to everyone else”, well here’s a news update I too am disabled but I don’t want to be treated any different to anyone else. 

Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, it doesn’t give you the right to be both rude or insulting.

 

My insurer wanted me to fit the AL-KO wheel lock that came with the caravan, I explained I couldn’t guarantee that I would be able to fit it every time, so they increased the premium but agreed cover providing I fitted a hitch lock and always set the alarm which had both a corner steady sensor and a tilt sensor.

 

There are many caravaners that have different levels of disability that enjoy the hobby, who get by the best they can, using whatever aids and facilities that are available and don’t expect anything from anyone.

[richardandros]

6 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

There are many caravaners that have different levels of disability that enjoy the hobby, who get by the best they can, using whatever aids and facilities that are available and don’t expect anything from anyone.

I was hesitating saying something similar, but I totally agree with you. Whilst not in anything like the same situation as the OP, I was recently diagnosed with a condition which prevents me kneeling down.  This made fitting the twin AL-KO locks (as required by my insurers) virtually impossible for me - especially as I had previously used the Lock 'n Level airbag which necessitates a fair amount of kneeling to position it.  I was faced with the prospect of either swapping the van - or even - giving up caravanning altogether. Technology was the solution - which is why I had E&P hydraulic levelling fitted - which means I can jack the van up, sit on the caravan step and fit the locks without any effort at all. Best decision I made and it should ensure we will be able to enjoy our hobby for some years to come.